Music rights and USFSA rules

[TallyT]

Yes, sure. It depends a lot on what version of public domain music is selected. I'm obviously grasping for straws here. As I said, this is not a long-term solution at all.

I googled - in the US, sound recordings for 1924 went public domain this year. I then went to youtube and checked for recordings done in or before then...

 

[Coach Aimee]

Hi all! I posted a video on this topic for you. It doesn't offer any creative solutions, but it does attempt to explain many of the reasons behind the new policy:

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

They are not that expensive. I

I read that the expense varies from $250 to $400 or as much as $2,000 per licensing fee (probably depending upon intended use).

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

I googled - in the US, sound recordings for 1924 went public domain this year. I then went to youtube and checked for recordings done in or before then...

Tee hee! Yeah, I know. Many skaters may be encouraged to source the classics when they can. Shin/ Nagy are bringing back some 1700s Mozart for their sp! Remember when?

Not gonna be funny when we can't watch our fave programs with audio. Yep, 1924 + 70 years after death of the composer.

 

[4everchan]

I read that the expense varies from $250 to $400 or as much as $2,000 per licensing fee (probably depending upon intended use).

The cheap licenses are for non-commercial use, and the more expensive ones, usually when there is a commercial aspect to using the music. If there is a money opportunity, then of course, the users should pay more. I don't think a license that is costing a couple hundred bucks should be a reason not to livestream a challenger event for instance

 

[TallyT]

Tee hee! Yeah, I know. Many skaters may be encouraged to source the classics when they can. Shin/ Nagy are bringing back some 1700s Mozart for their sp! Remember when?

They also have to ensure the performer is public domain as well, so maybe (like my lovely Starr Andrews) they all need to learn to sing or get a relative to play the banjolele for them

Not gonna be funny when we can't watch our fave programs with audio.

Most of the elite - and small local competitions? - will presumably go with something already paid for, choices will narrow.

 

[moonvine]

Not sure what this means for the future of rewatching videos…
https://7926325.fs1.hubspotusercontent-na1.net/hubfs/7926325/U.S. Figure Skating Music Policy.pdf?utm_source=hs_email&utm_medium=email&_hsenc=p2ANqtz--9Tm0WiGCKHywGwa7btb7_PmXp3rUPW2CrbqJHHTdnjFh1jskskU4uQLvIlEgeguIx3gJcGBILhHxpXfG2NcwkM-CSxw

Does this mean Peacock replays won’t have music?

So no streaming of any small comp? They really want to kill viewership don't they?

 

[moonvine]

The cheap licenses are for non-commercial use, and the more expensive ones, usually when there is a commercial aspect to using the music. If there is a money opportunity, then of course, the users should pay more. I don't think a license that is costing a couple hundred bucks should be a reason not to livestream a challenger event for instance

Didn't you say Canada got licenses for all the music?

 

[TallyT]

So no streaming of any small comp? They really want to kill viewership don't they?

It's the small competitions and local skaters I am thinking more about, grassroots support.

 

[moonvine]

It's the small competitions and local skaters I am thinking more about, grassroots support.

Yes, I'm thinking about small competitions too. They used to be streamed. Last year none were. If I ever win the lottery I will go to all of them and record them with my iPhone. This is unlikely, as I don't play the lottery.

 

[saine]

So no streaming of any small comp? They really want to kill viewership don't they?

They recently streamed Broadmoor Open with no music. So that's what streaming would look like.

 

[4everchan]

Didn't you say Canada got licenses for all the music?

They most likely do, because everything is live streamed and archived... which means.. well they do

I think that since our skating viewing is FREE, it probably is very cheap for Skate Canada.... US FED needs to look up North

 

[TallyT]

They most likely do, because everything is live streamed and archived... which means.. well they do

I think that since our skating viewing is FREE, it probably is very cheap for Skate Canada.... US FED needs to look up North

Could be different rules and laws getting in the way. On a different copyright/public domain issue, I know of a Canadian site which puts up very good copies of books that are in public domain there (it's not the size of gutenberg obviously but still one of my favourites because they have copies of some school novel series I have been willing to pay for!) and they are always very careful on the pages to emphasise that the books are cleared under Canadian law only and can we all check our own copyright laws please before downloading. I mean, they would know full well that people don't check (quite a lot of books I've seen surely wouldn't be everywhere) but they're protecting themselves.

 

[4everchan]

Could be different rules and laws getting in the way. On a different copyright/public domain issue, I know of a Canadian site which puts up very good copies of books that are in public domain there (it's not the size of gutenberg obviously but still one of my favourites because they have copies of some school novel series I have been willing to pay for!) and they are always very careful on the pages to emphasise that the books are cleared under Canadian law only and can we all check our own copyright laws please before downloading. I mean, they would know full well that people don't check (quite a lot of books I've seen surely wouldn't be everywhere) but they're protecting themselves.

i am no expert but the copyright laws differ per country of course but the main principles, like paying for your licensing fees are pretty common and universal. I don' t think the different laws are the issues.

 

[saine]

For anyone wondering about Skate Canada handling copyrighted music, there's an article that contains information about it here.

Relevant quote:

All Skate Canada-affiliated clubs are required to pay registration fees to Skate Canada. A portion of that fee is remitted to “Entandem”, a joint venture between Re:Sound and SOCAN, to allow clubs to play copyrighted music during regular practice sessions.[3] Additionally, clubs are required to remit fees directly to Entandem for additional events such as ice shows or competitions.[4] The process gets a little bit more complicated when shows and competitions are broadcast on a larger stage.

Where broadcasting is involved, different types of licenses may also be required. Broadcasters pay blanket fees to performance rights organizations (such as SOCAN), and these organizations collect and distribute royalties to the artists who register with them.[5] There are often certain requirements for tracking and reporting which musical works have been used by the licensee to allow for appropriate distribution of royalties.[6] Sometimes, broadcasters must obtain synchronization rights, which allow for the musical works to be reproduced in conjunction with visuals and are typically secured from the artist and the record company.[7]

 

[moonvine]

Could be different rules and laws getting in the way. On a different copyright/public domain issue, I know of a Canadian site which puts up very good copies of books that are in public domain there (it's not the size of gutenberg obviously but still one of my favourites because they have copies of some school novel series I have been willing to pay for!) and they are always very careful on the pages to emphasise that the books are cleared under Canadian law only and can we all check our own copyright laws please before downloading. I mean, they would know full well that people don't check (quite a lot of books I've seen surely wouldn't be everywhere) but they're protecting themselves.

Could you pm me the url?

 

[moonvine]

They recently streamed Broadmoor Open with no music. So that's what streaming would look like.

I mean...compared to trying to "follow" a competition by refreshing a webpage repeatedly, I'd actually take that.

 

[4everchan]

For anyone wondering about Skate Canada handling copyrighted music, there's an article that contains information about it here.

and for pointers, I have had to submit entandem reports and pay licenses... super easy, takes a couple minutes to do... and it's relatively cheap unless you want to make money out of things

So yeah... there is absolutely no excuse.

 

[saine]

and for pointers, I have had to submit entandem reports and pay licenses... super easy, takes a couple minutes to do... and it's relatively cheap unless you want to make money out of things

So yeah... there is absolutely no excuse.

I read enough competition manuals from the Skate Canada sections now to know that they all end with 'Pay the SOCAN fees!'

I'm surprised it took this long for a blanket Performance License for USFS competitions. They skirted the issue and have to deal with it after Heavy Young Heathens. The larger competitions had NBC/Peacock covering the licensing, but my guess is that they're only willing to cover the licensing costs for it to be a live event (with delays and being on a streaming service.) Hence why they disappear so quickly. It would be a separate license to keep them up.

I'm basing that guess on what I read here:

In order to include copyrighted songs in a television show or a movie, a synchronization license or “sync” license is needed whenever music is synched with video footage. However, luckily for NBC, the Olympics is considered a live event which means that no sync licenses were required and instead figure skating routines are covered by what is known as a “performance right” (i.e., permission to perform or broadcast a piece of music in a public, commercial setting). These same rights apply even though the event’s broadcast was delayed until primetime. While there is no sync license required, the broadcaster is still responsible for obtaining a blanket license that grants them public performance rights from “performing rights organizations,” or PROs.

It's good that they're cleaning up since I'm now wondering how much of a copyright mess they found with the lawsuit.

 

[TallyT]

Could you pm me the url?

Will do.