- Joined
- Jul 17, 2018
That is a rumor being shared by TSL. No action against Jeffrey has actually surfaced.
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Ivan Desyatov suspended by SafeSport
- Thread starter gsk8
- Start date
At this point I think that ISU should shut down Ice Dance competitions for the remainder of the Grand Prix portion of season. In the space of a few weeks we had two suspensions and several credible accusations of one member abusing his current or former partner and lord knows what else is going come up. I just want make sure that no one is at risk of getting hurt and a lot of these issues are extremely serious and need be addressed with out the pressure of replacing couples when new accusations come up and allow enough time tor countries to do proper investigations . Because this is not normal and it needs to be addressed now before someone gets hurt.
- Joined
- Mar 7, 2015
We hear more about these cases now not because there are more cases but because victims are able to get support from safe sport and OSIC. Cases are then made public. The sports culture is changing finally. It will get safer but it will never be 100% safe, just like it is in society. The ISU shutting down ice dance is absolutely not going to happen and not a solution at all. Going that route would be the same as canceling all figure skating because some athletes were doped. Creating more victims is not in any way helping victims of misconduct.
- Joined
- Jan 31, 2019
Thank you for saying it in a calm, measured way
I am not saying permanently I am just saying shut down cancel the next few weeks. To allow proper investigations to take place and the resulting suspensions to be dealt our. What scares me is Nasser level event in Ice Dance that dominates the headlines until 2026. If gets that bad do you think the Olympics will take kindly to having the same sport that caused such a mess in 2022 coming up again. Look this is an issue that needs to dealt with and last thing this sport needs is half of Grand Prix Ice Dance slates needing be replaced because of more reports of one member of the partnership being accused of.abuse, sexual misconduct, or other issues like visa/marriage issues that has come up. It only about 6 weeks and we compensate every one who is going to be affected by this. I am afraid this could be tip of a huge iceberg and rather be proactive than wait and make it much worse.
- Joined
- Mar 3, 2014
In the posts I saw, no one was talking about "Potential for Abuse".Just fraud fraud fraud fraud fraud. I don't claim to have read every post, I could be wrong.
Now I refuse to give Dave Lease clicks, so I have no idea what his proffered rationale is for bringing all this up. Nor, since I don't care for "Oh gurrrrlll, we know what's really going on here, don't we, wink wink nudge nudge nudge", which is what I heard from him back in the day when I did give him clicks, do I think I will ever find out from him.
To make the running leap from marriages to enabling any abusive conduct of Ivan? I don't run that fast. And yes, I want real evidence linking them rather than "Ohhh gurllll look at this".
Occupational hazard, and not obtuseness in my world.
I truly hope the real issue of Ivan's conduct is investigated thoroughly and dealt with appropriately.
- Joined
- Mar 7, 2015
I understand your concerns but let's explore your proposal for a minute. Do you think that all victims would speak up in that 6 week span ? Nikolaj's victim took over 12 years to speak up, and she only did because he was going to be coaching. Many victims need a lot of time/support before they have the courage to speak up. I also believe that proper investigations take time and should not be rushed. I know Safe Sport and OSIC are not perfect, but I think we need to trust them. This is not an issue that can be solved in a few weeks. It will take years to clean sport's culture. And unfortunately, it's sad to say but there will be more victims in the future. Hopefully, less and less and less. But look at it this way, death penalty has not prevented murders to happen in the states that still have it. I don't think an ISU ban would do much, if anything. Sexual misconduct is not limited to ice dance. It's everywhere and it's just starting to be adressed seriously. I am not worried one bit about the Olympics and if ever figure skating got kicked out from the games, it would not be for this scandal but for the cumulative scandals it brought to the games for decades.
- Joined
- Mar 14, 2007
Well we all know how I feel about TSL. Wish I had the technical knowledge to start a podcast. It would be the podcast of if you don’t have anything nice to say don’t say anything at all.
- Joined
- Jan 17, 2022
You ARE aware that I was being sarcastic, right?
I find all this speculation about what ice rink or school is to blame for all kinds of alleged crimes to be absolutely ridiculous and it feels as if some fans just need any excuse to dunk on institutions they don't like.
All we really now is that one skater was suspended and there ux a criminal investigation.
All that stuff about 'secret' marriages is mostly speculation and we're talking about consenting adults here. Treating the women involved as some kind of victims annoys me because it makes them out to be some dimwitted idiots who can't make decisions without their parents or club??? Maybe they are gullible little girls who got scammed by evil men, but unless that is proven I'm gonna give them the benefit of the doubt and treat them as adults.
- Joined
- Dec 5, 2015
Again this. People just are just looking for excuses to focus on the drama and the petty issues which is basically TSL's whole brand...The issue here is the suspension for the conduct Ivan is accused of. Everything else is literally just speculation. Focusing on what's important doesn't make a person naive.In the posts I saw, no one was talking about "Potential for Abuse".Just fraud fraud fraud fraud fraud. I don't claim to have read every post, I could be wrong.
Now I refuse to give Dave Lease clicks, so I have no idea what his proffered rationale is for bringing all this up. Nor, since I don't care for "Oh gurrrrlll, we know what's really going on here, don't we, wink wink nudge nudge nudge", which is what I heard from him back in the day when I did give him clicks, do I think I will ever find out from him.
To make the running leap from marriages to enabling any abusive conduct of Ivan? I don't run that fast. And yes, I want real evidence linking them rather than "Ohhh gurllll look at this".
Occupational hazard, and not obtuseness in my world.
- Joined
- Mar 28, 2014
In the posts I saw, no one was talking about "Potential for Abuse".Just fraud fraud fraud fraud fraud. I don't claim to have read every post, I could be wrong.
Now I refuse to give Dave Lease clicks, so I have no idea what his proffered rationale is for bringing all this up. Nor, since I don't care for "Oh gurrrrlll, we know what's really going on here, don't we, wink wink nudge nudge nudge", which is what I heard from him back in the day when I did give him clicks, do I think I will ever find out from him.
To make the running leap from marriages to enabling any abusive conduct of Ivan? I don't run that fast. And yes, I want real evidence linking them rather than "Ohhh gurllll look at this".
Occupational hazard, and not obtuseness in my world.
LOL, I couldn't write a better example of obtuseness by reducing valid questioning and concerns to "Ohhh gurllll look at this". Too good!
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- Joined
- Apr 23, 2018
There is a difference between 'valid questioning and concerns' and salacious scandal-mongering, and we have seen both on this thread. The facts are bad enough, but making up a whole penny dreadful of additional melodrama is not needed or helpful.
Desyatov is suspended under Section 2 of the code: https://www.usfigureskating.org/grievances, https://twitter.com/olyphil/status/1847374259695530007Oh, now IAM are running a human trafficking ring? This is getting wilder and wilder.
Put the blame where the blame is due: The perpetrator.
And unless someone knows any details about why he was suspended, this is all speculation anyway.
Section 2 refers to sexual misconduct.
Certainly the men need to be interested in changing, but pairs training availability, or a lack thereof, is also a huge factor. Even in Canada, a major skating nation with a rich pairs tradition, pairs training is limited to a few locations. Skate Canada has a program to help correct that. One component is helping singles coaches who want to also train pairs through training and mentorship for the coaches and their fledgeling pairs. This helps the coaches offer more options to their skaters, who can train pairs closer to their homes.
- Joined
- Jun 11, 2012
Shut down the dance competition because of 2 incidents? Wow - I certainly hope not. That would affect an inordinate amount of people. I don't think any of this should be even discussed unless there is proof. Do I think SafeSport moves too slow? Yes. But that's better than moving too fast with the nudge nudge wink wink that El mentions and getting it wrong. Speculation can not only ruin careers, but lives!
- Joined
- Oct 22, 2022
Years ago a young coach at the club I was with then almost had his career blighted when a teenage girl pupil complained to the club president that he'd "touched her too much in the wrong places". Fortunately her mother overheard her laughing on the phone to a friend, bragging that she'd "fixed him" for reprimanding her about showing up late for lessons and then being bratty and lazy, something which many adult skaters there had observed about her themselves. Her mother got the truth out of her and then apologized to the coach (a very nice young man) and the executive because her daughter had lied, and the matter was dropped. The kid dropped out of skating because her own friends at the club took the coach's side and she was ostracized.
- Joined
- Jan 17, 2022
I did not go into detail, because I didn't think it was necessary. Maybe it is, but I'm just going to throw a few thoughts out there.
In my opinion, the marriages are more so a symptom or result of a vulnerable situation - It would be easy for a young team to feel obliged to marry (for citizenship or not) in order to make the efforts put into their partnership by the parents (of the female partner in these cases) worth it, which are very high in cases of "foreign imports".
For similar reasons, it would be all too easy for either skater to stay quiet about any issues because of the large amount of resources invested in this exact partnership, and especially if a marriage is "part of the deal" - Marriage is a legal commitment, and it's much harder to walk away from than "just" a simple skating partnership, even with today's divorce laws.
And if there is any possibility of some of these marriages being fraudulent, it makes the two people involved very vulnerable to being blackmailed by anyone in the know to stay in (potentially) abusive situations.
- Joined
- Apr 23, 2018
Speculation happens anyway because that is what humans always always do. and for the safety of minors, anyone under serious suspicion needs to be removed during the investigation which is a unavoidable public act. And I do believe that all these bodies do work as fast and thoroughly as they can given the constraints which are none of their fault but money and politics.
Yes, it's imperfect but a hell of a lot better than what there was before which was at best nothing at all.
- Joined
- Jun 11, 2012
Tally, I don't totally disagree with your post but we do have a judicial system here that says "innocent until proven guilty" and there are reasons for that. I guess you'd have to define "serious suspicion!" It definitely isn't perfect and I hate to imagine young girls or boys out there afraid to speak up. But at the same time I also hate the thought of someone being unjustly accused of something they didn't do. But then I don't have an answer for this. Speed up the process of discovery?
- Joined
- Apr 23, 2018
That requires money and political will. In the absence of both, the problem everywhere is the balancing of the rights of the accused with the need to protect the unquestionably innocent and often vulnerable. After all an employer can fire someone sexually or racially harassing other staff without having to prove it in a court of law (unless the employee sues, and even then as I understand it civil law everywhere is based on probability, not nearly as high a benchmark as criminal.)
And we along with most Western nations also have that 'innocent until proven guilty' thing (which I think sometimes your country forgets, I have heard commentators saying the US is the only one who does when you didn't even invent it
) so I and most folk here are at all not ignorant of it. But people are also arrested and held pending trial - which can take months or even years - for serious crimes, yes? Again, need for balance in an imperfect system, which will never not be imperfect because it deals with people. And people will never be anywhere near that which is why the cliche 'court of public' opinion doesn't and cannot ever be expected to hold to judicial standards.
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