KSU Suspends Hae-in Lee and Young You

[TallyT]

I do not find her being extravagantly polite and contrite after having released private messages detailing her relationship with a minor publicly.

That should not have been made public. Whatever the court ultimately decides, she still took those actions. I get wanting to defend herself, but those actions do not demonstrate politeness and contriteness to me.

I agree, while KSF lost any respect I had for the way they handled it, Lee lost nearly as much respect for doing that (and for getting involved with a minor in the first place.)

 

[Anna K.]

Your post suggests they had sex while all she did was a hickey on his neck. This became the basis for punishing her with a 3-year suspension.

My post contains a question and only:

Is there in force any kind of "Romeo and Juliet law" in Korea?

Generally, there are laws, known as "Romeo and Juliet laws", that provide that a person can legally have consensual sex with a minor provided that he or she is not more than a given number of years older, generally four years or less.

There is a court case. So I'd like to know what's the legal basis of the court decision. That's all.

 

[throw_triple_flip]

I agree, while KSF lost any respect I had for the way they handled it, Lee lost nearly as much respect for doing that

Would you really have sat by while a narrative characterising you as a sexual predator took hold, if you thought you had proof that showed otherwise?

Releasing those messages did help her in the court of public opinion.

 

[throw_triple_flip]

I do not find her being extravagantly polite and contrite after having released private messages detailing her relationship with a minor publicly.

That should not have been made public.

Is it really reasonable to expect someone to keep quiet and let a story spiral, when they've got evidence that shows the situation in a different light?

She's only young and became the subject of an intense media/social media storm. Would you really know how to handle that situation perfectly?

 

[TallyT]

Would you really have sat by while a narrative characterising you as a sexual predator took hold, if you thought you had proof that showed otherwise?

Fact is, it did help her in the court of public opinion. What KSU had characterised the situation as wasn't the truth.

She should (well, strictly speaking she should not have put herself in that position!) have looked for a way to make her case without publicising private messages from a minor. The choices that got her in over her head - and her unquestionably dubious behaviour in getting involved with that minor and blatantly breaking the rules by the drinking - does not mean she is absolved from simple decency, especially as the main fault for her situation is hers because of that dubious behaviour (KSF reacted appallingly, I agree, but there would have been nothing to react to without her actions.) I am tired of the people now hailing her online as a persecuted heroine, she is not.

And with respect to the mod's message, I have severely bowdlerised my response, but will leave it there.

 

[CopyCat]

My post contains a question and only:



There is a court case. So I'd like to know what's the legal basis of the court decision. That's all.

From what I've read, the age of consent in South Korea is 16. There's a Romeo and Juliet law for ages 18 and under, but it doesn't apply once you turn 19.

 

[saine]

If she had been polite and held off on proving what really happened between her and the underage skater, she would still be considered a sexual predator. Would you have held off on providing background on the whole situation if you knew that the media all over the world was trumpeting that you committed sexual assault (and in Russia they were writing that you had raped a minor)?

She was stupid to get involved with a much younger guy (which became especially sensitive when she became an adult herself), but she was not stupid to defend herself fiercely while the Korean federation threw her under the bus, punishing her in the most inadequate way.

Is it really reasonable to expect someone to keep quiet and let a story spiral, when they've got evidence that shows the situation in a different light?

She's only young and became the subject of an intense media/social media storm. Would you really know how to handle that situation perfectly?

Like I said in my post, I get wanting to defend herself. That does not make her actions appropriate. Especially when it's a case that is being appealed in court.

 

[Skating91]

Well done Haein Lee. It's time for the ISU to get involved, demand an explanation for why they went to extraordinary lengths to destroy a young woman's life, reputation and career, if there is no satisfactory justification then ban these people that issued the suspension for life and suspend the Korean fed.

Considering the court overturned this, it is justification enough to suspend the Korean fed and ban these officials for life. Many people in this sport receive far greater suspensions despite never facing court.

If there is any inkling of the Korean fed punishing Haein Lee by not selecting her or making life difficult for her, suspend the Korean fed for longer. This is outrageous. What other sport would tolerate these people? Maybe the ISU should just automatically give her a place in GPs and at World's.

 

[Mathman]

There is a court case. So I'd like to know what's the legal basis of the court decision. That's all.

I do not pretend to know anything about Korean law, but as I understand the court's ruling the issue is "harassment" as a basis for a private employer (or in this case, a sports governing body) sanctioning an employee. It is not about the felony of statutory rape, in which case Romeo and Juliet laws come into play as a mitigating factor.

The court's preliminary ruling seems to be that what Hae-in did -- fooled around with an underage boyfriend -- does not rise to the legal definition of hrrassment.

 

[el henry]

I would love to know what the court case actually said and what the Korean law/statutes actually are. Sadly, I do not have that knowledge of either the Korean language or their law.

The newspaper article does indeed imply that the Court dismissed this as "fooling around with an underage boyfriend" and I find that appalling. What's next, those halcyon days of the 60s (and even later), where an underage male could never be assaulted or harassed because what a lucky guy, har de har har har, to be assaulted by an older teen woman, and a pretty one at that. Wish that had happened to me when I was a young dude, chuckle chuckle wink wink.

Really? I thought we were past those days?

Hae-In is not some innocent damsel done wrong by the giant ogre of the KSF. Did the punishment fit the offense? I don't know.
But from the facts as described, at least according to the KSF rules which I presume Hae-In knew, there was an offense.

 

[CoyoteChris]

If the court overturns this, the Korean fed needs to be suspended.

The problem here is that this is a Korean affair but you are correct, the KSU falls under the ISU. In the US, we have protection against "cruel and unusual punishment" but more important, in the US, there is written law and case law and case law, again in the US , overrules written law. My state patrol Capt. explained this in detail to me at work one day. So making up a hypothetical case, if in country A , the legal age is 18, and two teenagers 16 and 17 have some sort of kissing relationship, and one day the 17 year old turns 18, and the 16 year old turns 17, if the 18 year old kisses the 17 year old, that breaks the written law....but many judges would see no intent on the 18 year old to break the law . That would provide case law that could be used in future legal decisions. Fast forward to how the ISU would or should react to a final decision. They have failed figure skating IMHO in how they reacted to a case where lewd photos were sent to two 13 year old girls by a much older male. I put no hope into the ISU.

 

[CoyoteChris]

@gsk8

If Chat GPT can be trusted regarding translations: The Korean word "누명" actually means "false accusation" or "false charge."

So I think my first translation with Google seems to be right.

I agree. The screen shot is interesting in how the translator spells English. I wouldnt trust it. But I dont trust most translators. Mathman is correct. We need someone who speaks the language.

 

[CoyoteChris]

I agree, while KSF lost any respect I had for the way they handled it, Lee lost nearly as much respect for doing that (and for getting involved with a minor in the first place.)

Are we sure she got involved with a minor when she was an adult or were they together first as two minors?

 

[Mathman]

I would love to know what the court case actually said and what the Korean law/statutes actually are.

I was most struck by this quote (post # 208) which was presented as the actual words (in translation of course) of the court ruling:

“By definition, sexual harassment causes a sense of sexual humiliation and revulsion, and infringes on the victim's sexual freedom," the court said. "Just because an adult performed an act of affection toward someone under the age of 16, it doesn't mean such an act can be regarded as harassment."

Perhaps a lamentably ham-handed legal definition in so far as it seems to put the burden on the victim to prove that he was humiliated and revulsed. Still...

I was also somewhat taken aback by the original reporting months ago. The KSU came down like a ton of bricks on Hae-in Lee and Young You for -- *gasp* -- violating KSU taining rules about drinking alcohol in the dormatories. The sexual harassment thing was tossed in later, almost as an afterthought.

 

[Remilia]

My take on this is that the two skaters are only 3 years apart. Certainly not an outrageous age gap (basically the same as Marin and Shoma), and they were both minors when they started dating. There was nothing illegal about their relationship at the time, and I think it's a bit unrealistic to expect two teenagers to completely halt their relationship just because Haein had turned 19. If she HAD actually done something he was uncomfortable with, then yes, she'd be in the wrong, but by all means, it seems the relationship and everything that happened in it was completely consensual, so why should she be labeled a predator and wrongly punished for it? Punish her for breaking the rules drinking and having a boy in her dorm, but not for something she didn't do.

And while I do think she shouldn't have blasted their private messages like that, if she hadn't, people would still be calling her a pedophile and rapist, so I don't fault her for it. Besides, I don't doubt many of would be thinking completely rationally if we were in her shoes.

 

[CrazyKittenLady]

What's next, those halcyon days of the 60s (and even later), where an underage male could never be assaulted or harassed because what a lucky guy, har de har har har, to be assaulted by an older teen woman, and a pretty one at that.

Labelling a hickey between two teenagers in a consensual relationship as assault or sexual harassment trivializes real sexual harassment.

 

[el henry]

Labelling a hickey between two teenagers in a consensual relationship as assault or sexual harassment trivializes real sexual harassment.

and IMO, dismissing a hickey as nothing more than the result of two "teenagers" in a consensual relationship trivializes what happened as well.

I'm just very skeptical of poor little Hae-In, done wrong by the KSF for canoodling with her boyfriend. I'm sorry, I do think if the gender roles were reversed, the outcry would be less, But that's just a subjective feeling

 

[el henry]

Because it is a separate issue, what I do find fascinating is that the Korean law evidently does not defer to private contractual agreements. In the US, if USFS said you cannot drink alcohol to participate in competitions, and the skaters agreed (which of necessity they would need to do) the US courts would not review that at all. They would say, too bad, so sad, you're out, even if you are of legal drinking age. If the USFS said an 18 year old cannot engage in relationship with a 15 year old, that under your contract with us, we consider any relationship with a 15 year old to be harassment even if the 15 year old flies willingly into the 18 year old's arms, the US courts would not review that. Because it is a matter of contract, not of harassment.

So completely conceding that I know nothing about Korean law, it is very difficult for me to understand storming the ramparts on behalf of Hae-In. Very interesting.

 

[CrazyKittenLady]

I'm sorry, I do think if the gender roles were reversed, the outcry would be less, But that's just a subjective feeling

Of course. We've all heard of multiple males in the skating community getting away with actual sexual harassment basically unpunished and the investigation proceedings dragging on for years.

But a teenage girl gives her teenage boyfriend a hickey - bam, 3-year suspension.

So what exactly is your point?

 

[CoyoteChris]

I am not Korean speaker but I can provide English version here:

Court grants figure skater injunction to pause ban over sexual harassment charges | Yonhap News Agency

By Yoo Jee-ho SEOUL, Nov. 12 (Yonhap) -- A Seoul court on Tuesday granted an injunction ...

en.yna.co.kr

Thanks....pretty powerful stuff from the court.
"Lee then took the matter to the Seoul court, which ruled on Tuesday that her action with the male skater did not constitute sexual harassment, even though he was under 16 years of age at the time.

"By definition, sexual harassment causes a sense of sexual humiliation and revulsion, and infringes on the victim's sexual freedom," the court said. "Just because an adult performed an act of affection toward someone under the age of 16, it doesn't mean such an act can be regarded as harassment."