Her lutz was majorly under rotated, and so was her flip....she fell because it was so badly underrotated, yet it wasn't even downgraded. Her lutz was so badly cheated she could barely get her free leg back in time for a double toe, which ITSELF was under rotated! LOL. It's actually funny!
Ladies sp
- Thread starter cloudkicker09
- Start date
Her lutz was majorly under rotated, and so was her flip....she fell because it was so badly underrotated, yet it wasn't even downgraded. Her lutz was so badly cheated she could barely get her free leg back in time for a double toe, which ITSELF was under rotated! LOL. It's actually funny!
Looks flat to me. Actually Takahashi's flip is similar to Yu-na's. And it's very good quality jump. I don't think you know what "a very obvious lip" is. Why don't you check other skaters flips that actually got e marks on it?
I know some losers on Japanese figure skating board ( http://yutori.2ch.net/test/read.cgi/skate/1225029084/l50x )keep making stupid videos about Yu-na's edges and upload files on Youtube. And I found this file on Japanese figure skating board. Bashing Yu-na about her jumps. http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm4052257 Just pathetic..
I already posted this before. But those who do not understand please look and learn what flip jump is.
Japanese broadcasting about Yu-na's correct take-off edge
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6R4B8QIG6UE
http://www.essortment.com/all/figureskatingf_rhlp.htm
http://www.skatejournal.com/jump.html
Last edited:
Honestly, if Miki's 3-3 was downgraded, then, it's only fair that they downgraded Rachael's. It looked a bit short to me. I also thought she looked slow and the blah program didn't help.
Then why is she 2nd last?!!!!
- Joined
- Sep 14, 2008
Thoughts:
* Yu-Na does not Lip. If someone says this one more time, I will throw something. It's FINE for the Flip to take off from the flat or a slight outside edge. This jump isn't the complete inverse of the Lutz in terms of the take-off edge. It is very possible to take off on a very deep outside edge with the Lutz. But the Flip? You can not take off from a super-deep inside edge. It just doesn't work. The entrance is the bigger difference between these two jumps - a 3-turn or mohawk for the Flip and back glide or counter turn for for the Lutz.
* Yu-Na's toe-pick jumps are amazing. Huge height, perfect rotation, wonderful landings. She is definitely the best female in the World on those types of jumps. Her speed was FAR better than anyone else at this competition, her expression was excellent, and I was very surprised to see how good her Spiral Sequence was. What an improvement on that element! She deserved 1st place by a VERY wide margin, even with the mistake on the 2Axel.
* Miki's 3Loop shouldn't have been downgraded. That was really dumb. I was pleasantly surprised by her last position in the Spiral Sequence - she held it for a long time and did a nice hand movement while doing so.
* Flatt's 3Loop WAS underrotated. Still, the rule regarding downgraded jumps is extremely flawed. She should have been scored higher and put ahead of Yukari Nakano.
* Yukari's program is nice, but not great. For me, her best artistic achievement is still her SP from the 2006-2007 season.
* Nagasu's performance was very disappointing. I hope she builds her confidence throughout the year and we can see her talent in full bloom again.
* Meissner seems to be feeling her music a little better, but she's still not a very interesting skater. Her elements are very plain and, with that fall on the 3Flip, she did only deserve to be in 6th place.
* Mira Leung was undermarked. Her 2Axel shouldn't have been downgraded (although it isn't a good jump for her, no). I would have put her in 7th, not 10th.
* Yu-Na does not Lip. If someone says this one more time, I will throw something. It's FINE for the Flip to take off from the flat or a slight outside edge. This jump isn't the complete inverse of the Lutz in terms of the take-off edge. It is very possible to take off on a very deep outside edge with the Lutz. But the Flip? You can not take off from a super-deep inside edge. It just doesn't work. The entrance is the bigger difference between these two jumps - a 3-turn or mohawk for the Flip and back glide or counter turn for for the Lutz.
* Yu-Na's toe-pick jumps are amazing. Huge height, perfect rotation, wonderful landings. She is definitely the best female in the World on those types of jumps. Her speed was FAR better than anyone else at this competition, her expression was excellent, and I was very surprised to see how good her Spiral Sequence was. What an improvement on that element! She deserved 1st place by a VERY wide margin, even with the mistake on the 2Axel.
* Miki's 3Loop shouldn't have been downgraded. That was really dumb. I was pleasantly surprised by her last position in the Spiral Sequence - she held it for a long time and did a nice hand movement while doing so.
* Flatt's 3Loop WAS underrotated. Still, the rule regarding downgraded jumps is extremely flawed. She should have been scored higher and put ahead of Yukari Nakano.
* Yukari's program is nice, but not great. For me, her best artistic achievement is still her SP from the 2006-2007 season.
* Nagasu's performance was very disappointing. I hope she builds her confidence throughout the year and we can see her talent in full bloom again.
* Meissner seems to be feeling her music a little better, but she's still not a very interesting skater. Her elements are very plain and, with that fall on the 3Flip, she did only deserve to be in 6th place.
* Mira Leung was undermarked. Her 2Axel shouldn't have been downgraded (although it isn't a good jump for her, no). I would have put her in 7th, not 10th.
- Joined
- Mar 13, 2008
Um, no, its not. That's why it is a flip and not a lutz. A slight outside edge is still an outside edge, which means... DING DING DING! It's a LUTZ. Edges are what make jumps what they are. A flip is a back inside edge.
And I think Yu-Na does lip slightly sometimes. I don't notice it all the time, and it is not a huge lip like some other skaters, but it is sometimes a lip.
Are you a technical specialist???
Look I don't know what to think it looks to me like maybe there's an outside edge there (slight) but I can't really tell for sure because I'm not an expert.
And well I'm biased. This being said I think someone like Scott Hamilton would at the very least have an understanding of what a proper flip looked like and apparently he called that flip textbook. So the slight thing may be considered proper technique.
I don't think the judges would hit Mao for this thing and not hit Yu-na if it was an obvious thing that Yu-na needed fixing... So I think we should all leave it alone.
I do hope that if that is a lip it gets mentioned sooner than later.
Last edited:
AwesomeIce
Yu-na does not lip.
See Daisuke TAKAHASHI Flip in slow-mo 04:35
http://jp.youtube.com/watch?v=uqN-oksDFzU&feature=related
Jeffrey BUTTLE 04:05
http://jp.youtube.com/watch?v=xTjwFveQIcE
These are perfect flip just like Yu-na's.
Yu-na does not lip.
See Daisuke TAKAHASHI Flip in slow-mo 04:35
http://jp.youtube.com/watch?v=uqN-oksDFzU&feature=related
Jeffrey BUTTLE 04:05
http://jp.youtube.com/watch?v=xTjwFveQIcE
These are perfect flip just like Yu-na's.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Mar 13, 2008
No, I'm not a technical specialist, but I am a skater and I know the difference between a flip and a lutz, and any outside edge at all, no matter how slight, is NOT a real flip and it is not proper technique.
- Joined
- Sep 14, 2008
Are you a skater? Have you ever done Triple jumps? I practice them 6 days a week. I don't think you know what you're talking about.
Edges are not the only thing that make jumps what they are. The salchow also has a back inside edge.
A Flip should only be considered a Lip if there is a very apparent outside edge. And, even then, it's not like such a thing is a huge deal. Doing jumps with speed, height, great rotation, and great landings are what's most important. I'll take one of Brian Joubert's "Lips" over a Triple Flip from most anyone else in the World.
It is not such a huge deal? Then why was the "e" and "!" introduced at all? The "e" certainly was a huge deal last season. We'll see how it is this season as the "e" call at SA seemed less strict to me in general.
Actually, I partly agree with you as I much prefer watching a program with jumps that look good no matter the edge over those taken off correctly with a bad landing or some other issues. It is much less distracting.
But if we are to follow the current rules the wrong edge take off should get called consistently. The same for underrotations but unfortunately I see no consistency in that.
- Joined
- Sep 14, 2008
Because every hundredth of point counts. A severely wrong edge on the Flip and especially the Lutz are things that need to be deducted (and it should come off the base value of the jump, not the GoE). It's not reason for a big deduction, though.
nude color lipsticks
BTW, I agree with someone saying around the middle of this thread (can't find it) that too many ladies were wearing nude colors on their lips and that it often may not the best choice for FS performances. I never think that bright red or bright rose would always work and I totally believe that they should wear whatever color that go well with the costume. For example, Yuna's nude-colored lipstick looked very stylish with her black, gorgeous SP costume. I really liked that.
The general rule in everyday life makeup is that if you work a lot on your eye makeup, it would be better you leave out your lips so that it's not going to be excessive. Yet, FS performances are kind of different. I still think it important that the audience at the distance could see where your mouth is
So I was kind of surprised that so many of them were wearing nude colors. Even the little Mirai was wearing a beige color. Can't get it
BTW, I agree with someone saying around the middle of this thread (can't find it) that too many ladies were wearing nude colors on their lips and that it often may not the best choice for FS performances. I never think that bright red or bright rose would always work and I totally believe that they should wear whatever color that go well with the costume. For example, Yuna's nude-colored lipstick looked very stylish with her black, gorgeous SP costume. I really liked that.
The general rule in everyday life makeup is that if you work a lot on your eye makeup, it would be better you leave out your lips so that it's not going to be excessive. Yet, FS performances are kind of different. I still think it important that the audience at the distance could see where your mouth is
So I was kind of surprised that so many of them were wearing nude colors. Even the little Mirai was wearing a beige color. Can't get it
Last edited:
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2003
I think Awsomeice meant to say that the take-off edge is what gives the jump its individuality, and hence its name.
A Flutz and a Flip are illegal edges and ,in my opinion, the jump is illegal. Triple air turns are tough in any jump as is their landings but by definition they are all the same. (3 turns in the air and landing on one back outside edge.) Only the take-off edge is different, and hence one gets the NAME of the jump. Again, imo, a triple air turn can be executed from any legal jump, so why get credited for an illegal jump?
Minus GOE for Yukari Nakano.
- Joined
- Feb 4, 2008
I've just watched Yu-Na on youtube. I've always thought that she's an amazing skater, but this program just blew me away!
Besides her usual grace, elegance and great interpretation, she has gained in power and maturity.
I found her very reminiscente of Sjizuka Arakawa.
Besides her usual grace, elegance and great interpretation, she has gained in power and maturity.
I found her very reminiscente of Sjizuka Arakawa.
- Joined
- Sep 14, 2008
Sorry, but you're not correct.
It is not just the take-off edge that is different between jumps (also, the Flip and Salchow do indeed have the same take-off edge, so I'm not really seeing your point there). Doing a Flutz is different than doing a Flip, just as doing a Lip is different from doing a Lutz. The position of the body going into the jumps is different.
It is those varying body positions which increases the relative degree of difficulty in obtaining rotation when comparing different jumps. The Toeloop and Salchow are the easiest jumps to get rotation with because the free leg naturally swings itself into the rotation. With the Loop, Flip, and Lutz, the skater needs to work harder. (incidentally, I believe the value of the Loop should be increased to be the same as the Flip...the difficulty of that jump warrants being worth more than just .5 when compared to the Salchow).
A triple toeloop is technically called an outside edge jump, but some skaters do it with a slight inside edge - which would be called a toe-walley. Why is it that nobody is clamoring for a penalty there?
what do you you think to watch this clip.
It's interesting clip.
Kimmie's ! calll flip and Yu-na's flip.
http://jp.youtube.com/watch?v=XzBNgicB7qk
It's interesting clip.
Kimmie's ! calll flip and Yu-na's flip.
http://jp.youtube.com/watch?v=XzBNgicB7qk
Similar threads
