2025 U.S. Nationals Senior Men's Free Skate | Page 39 | Golden Skate

2025 U.S. Nationals Senior Men's Free Skate

Jason has been officially named to the Worlds team now, and I think that's great. He gets really strong at the end of the season, so why not this season? Yeah... And, Camden could never handle the pressure of needing to secure a third spot for the U.S. men at the next Olympics, anyway. Jason is great under pressure, at least, when his skates are working. He'll get there. He HAS to...
 
OMG!! I knew it.

It is obvious Isabeau and Jason spoke to key decision makers, prior to this Nationals. Very sneaky.

I hope the forum doesn’t hate me for this, but, I agree with these decisions.

The only thing that bothers me, is that there was obvious collusion prior to Nationals. Also, if I was Sarah or Camden, I would feel, why did I even bother to compete? I guess if they finished higher than third place, they could have made a case for themselves.

But, I don’t know how I feel about this decision. It feels slimy. I much prefer how the Japanese and Korean federations pick their selections.
I feel like one can’t compare Sarah and Camden. Camden flounced and bounced his way through the Grand Prix series completely untrained and skated like an absolute train wreck. His skating, scoring and placements were embarrassing. His performances at Nationals were better, but in typical Camden fashion, he was popping left and right in the FS and his completed technical content is not competitive with the top 10 men in the world. Sarah showed up well trained to her GP events and skated consistently and respectably, with no real major errors. She also skated consistently and respectably at Nationals and her completed content is competitive with the top 10 women in the world.
 
I for one am surprised and disappointed in the USFSA.

Jason is my favorite current men's skater, by far. His performances are the only ones I ever rewatch after a competoititon is over. He is the only skater who piques my interest season after season -- what music will he skate to, how will he interpret it, what marvels pf blade control will dazzle us with this time out?

But he did not earn this assignment to worlds. Further, the USFSA continues to diminish the luster of its own crown jewel, the National Championship. This decision does not align with the principles of sport and sportsmanship.

You compete or you don't. You win or you don't. Equipment issues? They are the responsibility of the athlete.
 
Still...I am surprised and disappointed in the USFSA.

Jason is my favorite current men's skater, by far. His performances are the only ones I ever rewatch after a competoititon is over. He is the only skater who piques my interest season after season -- what music will he skate to, how will he interpret it, what marvels pf blade control will gedrazzle us with this time out?

But he did not earn this assignment to worlds. And further, the USFSA continues to diminish the luster of its own crown jewel, the National Championship. This decision does not align with the principles of sport and sportsmanship.

You compete or you don't. You win or you don't. Equipment issues? They are the responsibility of the athlete.
While I totally agree with all of this, I also understand the selection committee viewing what happened during the Grand Prix series and what happened during this competition and concluding that the US does not have a reliable 3rd man among the roster of skaters who competed at Nationals (excluding Jacob Sanchez since he is competing as a junior internationally). Jason Brown has been the very definition of a reliable, consistent skater through his entire career prior to this fall’s GP series, much more so than Camden, Maxim, Jimmy, and Tomoki, who all 4 have been the very definition of inconsistent and unreliable through their careers. If Jason can get his issues resolved and prove during the return to play protocol that he is fit to return to competition, then I am right on board with this decision. From my understanding of how the protocol works, he would have to perform both his SP and FS with all of his planned technical content, including clean, consistent 3Axels, to be cleared to compete.
 
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again.. last time camden went to worlds...he finished 5th. of course, he is able of the worst... but he can be good too. In any case, I am fine with people rejoicing for Jason (or themselves as fans) but please let's not be unfair... 5th in the world is not something a lot of skaters will ever achieve in their career.

ETA I meant 2022... forgot about the 2024. Mea culpa
 
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again.. last time camden went to worlds...he finished 5th. of course, he is able of the worst... but he can be good too. In any case, I am fine with people rejoicing for Jason (or themselves as fans) but please let's not be unfair... 5th in the world is not something a lot of skaters will ever achieve in their career.
Camden last went to Worlds in Montreal 2024 and finished 20th. I’m sure that also factored into the committee’s decision.
 
OK... fair enough.. I was in the arena and i don't even remember him :) point taken... :slink:

so i was talking about 2022.. where he was very close from the podium, getting a small bronze for the LP
I think this is all happening because it is the pre-Olympic Worlds that determines Olympic spots. Jason having placed in the top 5 at Worlds 3 times and as high as 6th at the Olympics along with all of his career GP medals has proven to be a more reliable international competitor than Camden. I totally understand the reasoning behind backing Jason if he can remedy his problems and show a reliable 3Axel and all of his other content during this monitoring test. If he is unable, then Camden is in.
 
I think this is all happening because it is the pre-Olympic Worlds that determines Olympic spots. Jason having placed in the top 5 at Worlds 3 times and as high as 6th at the Olympics along with all of his career GP medals has proven to be a more reliable international competitor than Camden. I totally understand the reasoning behind backing Jason if he can remedy his problems and show a reliable 3Axel and all of his other content during this monitoring test. If he is unable, then Camden is in.
Honestly, i think the USA will rely on Andrew to get these 3 spots with Ilia. Without quads and something that wasn't a problem last year, with a very iffy 3axel, Jason, may not get the PCS scores he usually gets. I enjoyed his performances in Montreal, those I remember very well and will cherish forever, but this year, he hasn't been himself. If he is not clean in the SP, who knows where he will end up.

Finally, why does the USA need three spots in the men for the Olympics anyways ? It's not like more than one guy will medal. If it's about more of our guys will get to experience it, well, everyone is in the same boat. The spot conversation is tiring, especially considering Olympics. In women, USA needs the 3 spots because Liu, Glenn and Levito all have claims at a medal. It's not the same in the other disciplines.
 
Honestly, i think the USA will rely on Andrew to get these 3 spots with Ilia. Without quads and something that wasn't a problem last year, with a very iffy 3axel, Jason, may not get the PCS scores he usually gets. I enjoyed his performances in Montreal, those I remember very well and will cherish forever, but this year, he hasn't been himself. If he is not clean in the SP, who knows where he will end up.

Finally, why does the USA need three spots in the men for the Olympics anyways ? It's not like more than one guy will medal. If it's about more of our guys will get to experience it, well, everyone is in the same boat. The spot conversation is tiring, especially considering Olympics. In women, USA needs the 3 spots because Liu, Glenn and Levito all have claims at a medal. It's not the same in the other disciplines.
I get what you mean, and all the spots talking in the US in particular is exhausting, but having a reliable 3rd entry is more of a safety net. You never know what will happen in competition and anyone can have a really bad skate in a pressure situation. I remember back when Nobunari Oda had an absolute meltdown in the SP at the 2010 Worlds and finished in 28th place, thus not making the FS final. Thankfully, for Japan, it was not a pre-Olympic Worlds. The US has had that happen in other disciplines; for example, Denney/Frazier entered the 2017 Worlds as National Champions where they finished 20th in pairs and didn’t make the FS final. This was a pre-Olympic Worlds and the US, as a result, only had 1 pairs spot in the 2018 Olympics that went to the Kneirims.
 
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I get what you mean, and all the spots talking in the US in particular is exhausting, but having a reliable 3rd entry is more of a safety net. You never know what will happen in competition and anyone can have a really bad skate in a pressure situation. I remember back when Nobunari Oda had an absolute meltdown in the SP at the 2010 Worlds and finished in 28th place, thus not making the FS final. The US has had that happen in other disciplines; for example, Denney/Frazier entered the 2017 Worlds as National Champions where they finished 20th in pairs and didn’t make the FS final.
sure.. and when that happens, like both Canadian men screwing up last year, a spot is lost... no biggie :)

there are only a few times where spots were not awarded and it was not cool

I remember one time US men placed 3 in top ten but lost a spot
when LaLa didn't get to go to worlds because Canada earned 14 points...
in general, you get the spots you need. :)
 
But here's the thing. According to the USFS selection rules, the petition process is open only to a "dominant athlete."

Yuna Kim was a dominant athlete. She never ever ever finished off the podium in a long career. Nathan Chen was a dominant athlete. He won every event he entered from 2018 through 2021. Dick Button was a dominant athlete. He is a five time world champion and a two-time Olympic gold medalist.

The criteriaon does not apply to "well we don't seem to have anyone who is any better." Or even to :"this gives us the best shot to win more spots at future events."
 
But here's the thing. According to the USFS selection rules, the petition process is open only to a "dominant athlete."

Yuna Kim was a dominant athlete. She never ever ever finished off the podium in a long career. Nathan Chen was a dominant athlete. He won every event he entered from 2018 through 2021. Dick Button was a dominant athlete. He is a five time world champion and a two-time Olympic gold medalist.

The criteriaon does not apply to "well we don't seem to have anyone who is any better." Or even to :"this gives us the best shot to win more spots at future events."
Yeah, the USFSA is going to have to make a lot of amendments to their rulebook as a result of how events have played out through this season. I agree with a comment you made earlier about the National Championship losing its importance. Why put the players through all of the stress that surrounds this event if the results don’t really matter in the end? If the outcome is truly all about body of work at the end of the day, then just let the athletes rest in January and do away with Nationals. Nationals now is really only a marquee event for those who competed through the Regionals and Sectionals competitions to fight for a spot to get there.
 
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OMG!! I knew it.

It is obvious Isabeau and Jason spoke to key decision makers, prior to this Nationals. Very sneaky.

I hope the forum doesn’t hate me for this, but, I agree with these decisions.

The only thing that bothers me, is that there was obvious collusion prior to Nationals. Also, if I was Sarah or Camden, I would feel, why did I even bother to compete? I guess if they finished higher than third place, they could have made a case for themselves.

But, I don’t know how I feel about this decision. It feels slimy. I much prefer how the Japanese and Korean federations pick their selections.
Yeah a lot of people thought you and I were completely out of line talking about Brown being behind the scenes petitioning for this World's spot, but that's what he did. Would he have missed World's or the Olympics because his boots weren't 100% broken in? I think we know the answer to that ;).

Brown did give it away with his slip of the tongue saying he plans on competing again this season, but how is that possible when 4CC and World's are determined based on the results of Nationals (supposedly :biggrin:).

I'm not accusing Brown of exaggerating his issue with his skates not 100% broken in (or Isabeau either with that injury everyone is very secretive about), but the way the system works, it really worked out in their favour to by unfortunate enough to have no choice but to skip World's. Maybe the system needs to be changed for more transparency.
 
I don't want either Pulkinen or Brown at Worlds, but Naumov didn't have the clutch to land 4S and nobody else was even close to a pick for the 3rd man. Now that Torgashev secured his place as US 2nd man, the race begins for the 3rd. Brown was always their reliable pick for 2/3, so they are going to pick him until he stops landing doubles, but maybe even then. And US audience and some judges think Brown is a threat for the podium with his mighty single axel
 
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Jason is the reason the US has 3 spots this year so I find it hard to hear that he hasn't earned his spot. Camden is generally a trainwreck like someone said upthread. If anyone deserved that third spot it should have been Maxim Naumov who continues to improve exponentially every year. And it's demeaning to the USFSA to imply that Jason and Isabeau "talked" their way into Worlds. They petitioned, like others have in the past (Ashley Wagner, Todd Eldredge) and that's the procedure. I don't think for one nanosecond that Jason will skate if he isn't 100%. He's too professional and loves the sport too much to do that. But then if there weren't conspiracy drivel what would some of you talk about?
 
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