Is the interaction between competitive skating and show skating still mutually beneficial?

[underrotatedflutz]

Figure skating is an expensive sport, a sport of the rich one might say, with all the incurring costs to train, and that's not even including travel expenses, it's almost turned into a situation similar to what's happening in chess where only the top players (or in this case, athletes) have a shot at making ends meet solely off of competition prizes and sponsorships.

So here's the question- how do the other skaters (i.e. those out of the top 20 internationally) make enough to continue financing their training and other expenses (+ normal living costs)?

That's where ice shows and show skating in general step into the picture. A relatively easier way (considering the less tech-heavy programs/routines they carry out) to both hone their performance abilities and skills, while providing a stable source of income for a skater to comfortably finance their daily activities. Now who wouldn't want to miss out on such an opportunity?

Now we move on to the disadvantages (or more like negative side-effects) of show skating. Ice shows haven't been as popular as they once were for a long time (almost decades), meaning not as many people are coming to watch these shows, and that also reflects on figure skating as a sport, as one could say figure skating is on a downward trajectory (as much as I hate to say it), with one of the only saving graces being the Olympics (which mind you, happen only once in 4 years). Another trend I've seen is for skaters to spend their whole off-season doing ice shows just to end up injured and missing most competitions (read: a certain French skater). Preparing for shows is by no means an effortless task- it requires weeks and maybe even months of preparation and practice, which all detracts from actual practice time for the skaters.

Now that I've laid down a few points, let me state this as well- in the current era of figure skating, ice shows are absolutely required for the average competitive figure skater who skates full-time to make a decent living wage, and we'll have to deal with the subsequent injuries, etc unless the ISU decides to finally start paying the athletes better (like seriously, only 25k for a grand prix gold? have they seen what athletes in other sports are receiving??).

I'm sure most of the points I've mentioned here have been thoroughly discussed earlier in this thread but I still thought I'd give my $0.02

 

[Magill]

I'd really like to know how much Tailor's show would have grossed if live shows was her only way to make money: no musical records, no airplay, no television, no streaming - just Tailor singing live.
I'm afraid that would take us back to the beginning of the century when she sung in pubs.

I have no idea about Taylor Swift, but I recall Paul McCartney commenting on the shifts in the music market several times over the last decade or so, I think. He would say that it used to be for several decades that live concerts were treated mostly as promo events which were to remind the fans that they actually were fans in fact and encourage buying records which was where money was really made, not at the live shows. Still with the digital music and streaming platforms taking over, everything has changed. People tend to buy subscriptions instead of records, and the money musicians get from those platforms is close to none, well, from his perspective anyway. So, it is the other way round now, with almost free music on platforms meant to lure the public to buy tickets for concerts, touring has become the main source of income and that's why everyone is touring like crazy, including himself, at his noble age.
I have no expertise of my own here but Paul is generally believed to understand and know a lot about the financial side of show business, and he learnt it a hard way, too. Still, he's a billionaire, they say, has been one and around for a while and made all his money on music so I would tend to trust his judgment on this.
Still, he's talking about rock and pop concerts, of course, not about ice shows.
But it does relate to the general judgment on live shows as not profitable by default, and calls it out as not necessarily accurate.

 

[Mathman]

So here's the question- how do the other skaters (i.e. those out of the top 20 internationally) make enough to continue financing their training and other expenses (+ normal living costs)?

That's where ice shows and show skating in general step into the picture.

It's a double whammy. It is my impression that only the tiniest handful of "other skaters" can patch together enough show opportunities to make a living at it. Do as many shows as you can, coach children with rich and indulgent parents, work a side job serving coffee at Starbucks -- no wonder so many marvelous and successful completive skaters go into other lines of work -- a good number seem to become bankers and stock brokers -- in part II of their lives.

On the other hand, if you had a blast as a competitive skater in your youth and then at age 19 old age creeps up on you and you are forced into retirement... well, you have the same options as everybody else. Go back to school, get a job, that sort of thing.

 

[Anna K.]

But it does relate to the general judgment on live shows as not profitable by default, and calls it out as not necessarily accurate.

Apparently it would be too much if I'd ask you to read my whole post, not the first sentence only, so I'll quote directly what I said about shows that are exceptions from the rule and actually make money:

If you have a super-long show run (serious companies do), then the money made may be actually very good.

So, where exactly am I not correct? Aren't Mr McCartney's shows sold-out? Or, isn't he giving shows for a long time?

 

[Magill]

Apparently it would be too much if I'd ask you to read my whole post, not the first sentence only, so I'll quote directly what I said about shows that are exceptions from the rule and actually make money:


So, where exactly am I not correct? Aren't Mr McCartney's shows sold-out? Or, isn't he giving shows for a long time?

That was not the post I was replying to. The one I was replying to was about Taylor Swift and her shows. I guess Paul McCartney is more compatible to her than .... well, you gave us no example of live shows you were actually basing your general judgement on, really. Still, he was commenting on the whole music market atm as such, and not on his own gigs specifically, or even superstars' gigs alone. and I read and heard similar things from many other sources, too, but he's just a huge name to quote. It also goes along everyday experience - people do not buy too many records anymore, they tend to rely on Spotify and the likes. But still they go to concerts.
So there was this huge shift in the way money is made in the music market as music streaming platforms crushed the record sales. Paul did not see himself as an exception. He would say that was the general landscape right now, and the general market was the topic he was commenting on in his many interviews. No money from records or streaming, money from gigs instead, with streaming treated as a huge and necessary promo, although not generating too much income, and records being a side line now as far as income is concerned.
Anyway, I think further discussing the music market is really here.

 

[Anna K.]

Anyway, I think further discussing the music market is really here.

It is indeed.
Even if we compare the live performance aspect, minimum that a musician needs to go on a live tour is an acoustic guitar and a thumb to hitch-hike. Not the case with for ice show or an ice-skating gig.

.... well, you gave us no example of live shows you were actually basing your general judgement on, really.

May I quote myself again:

Most companies that produce live shows (theaters, circus, dance companies etc.)

 

[Magill]

Even if we compare the live performance aspect, minimum that a musician needs to go on a live tour is an acoustic guitar and a thumb to hitch-hike. Not the case with for ice show or an ice-skating gig.

Funny you bring it up.
Of course, unplugged gigs still happen all the time, with the full romanticism of "a tour of one night stands, my suitcase and guitar in hand", but in the past weeks fans reporting from Saitama and Hiroshima in the days preceding Yuzuru's Echoes of Life shows compared the size of his travelling entourage to.... yes, you guess, a rock show arriving in an arena for a gig. Noting it was almost that big but still smaller.
So, back to skating we go...

 

[Wynter]

The show and the venue have the same name for reason: theatrical shows are typically given in theater houses. Just like ice shows, theatrical shows also need a specifically equipped venue for the show purpose.

Hmm… Then I wonder if Yuzu’s ice shows are different. In his shows, the rented venue just provides the space. Anything else (audio arrangement, stages, etc.) are all done by his team. That’s why the ending credits got super long and why I said one production team will only prepares one show at a time. Because doing two shows at the same time means double logistics and resources needed.

For example: For Echoes, one of the staffs from the moving company said that he and his team transported 12 trucks of equipments to Hiroshima. That’s a lot.

 

[Anna K.]

Hmm… Then I wonder if Yuzu’s ice shows are different. In his shows, the rented venue just provides the space. Anything else (audio arrangement, stages, etc.) are all done by his team. That’s why the ending credits got super long and why I said one production team will only prepares one show at a time. Because doing two shows at the same time means double logistics and resources needed.

For example: For Echoes, one of the staffs from the moving company said that he and his team transported 12 trucks of equipments to Hiroshima. That’s a lot.

Different from some, similar to some other; when it comes to touring, the amount of baggage and portable equipment can range from a handbag to a shipload for any kind of a show: a concert, a theatrical show, a circus show, or an ice show. There are no standards. When people start being creative, you can expect everything from minimalism to super-lavish depending on the type and hype of the performance. Also, it depends on what is available at the destination site, i.e., if there is an ice rink or you need to carry with you your own tractor and Zamboni - or, for a theater show, a portable stage with a curtain

I think that the model for ice skating used to be the same. Ice skating stars attract pubic attention by winning national and world medals, being on TV in the Olympics, etc. Then they try to cash in by doing tours and shows.

Nowadays there just isn't much money in the sport at any level.

In the US, the formula worked excellently. It's funny that this formula still works in popular music: nowadays, musicians happily shoot to fame after they participate in competitions (talent shows, song contests etc.). So, the general public keep biting on it. Then, how could figure skating lose it? And how to fix it? I fear that I don't know the history and the situation in the US well enough to build a theory. But what do you think about it?

 

[TallyT]

In the US, the formula worked excellently. It's funny that this formula still works in popular music: nowadays, musicians happily shoot to fame after they participate in competitions (talent shows, song contests etc.).

Well, a few and to an extent... there have been a lot of pointed digs at The Voice and similar shows that make the star judges etc a lot of money but produce very very few successful careers for winners or competitors.

ps - it occurs to me that this sort of thread talks a lot about NA and Japan and some about Russia, but not about Europe, I believe there are shows there too but don't know much about them?

 

[rabidline]

Another trend I've seen is for skaters to spend their whole off-season doing ice shows just to end up injured and missing most competitions (read: a certain French skater). Preparing for shows is by no means an effortless task- it requires weeks and maybe even months of preparation and practice, which all detracts from actual practice time for the skaters.

Not every competitive skater are natural fits to shows and having to skate and do elements under lights. It really takes a little lack of focus for disasters to happen. Add to it, many top competitive skaters are already carrying existing injuries, so doing many shows can aggravate those injuries, or worse.

But I also think doing shows can be a confidence booster for some who rarely gets the opportunity to do so, and for some competitive skaters they did actively use shows to build their programs towards competitions, as well as take notes from their seniors. I think it's just a matter of experience and strategy, on how to be entertaining for the audience, but also knowing where the limits are.

News just came in that Loena Hendrickx will do ankle surgery, and that she will do it after finishing her Art on Ice shows. That's kind of the discussion here, right? Loena stated that shows are different and it's important for her to end her season with a good feeling, hence she's still doing the show even when she has the surgery scheduled after. So having to skate in ice shows is something that benefits her personally, because she gets to end this season with hopefully some good skating memories, which is impossible for her to get from competitions due to her current injury not allowing her to jump the competitive jumps.

 

[synesthesia]

ps - it occurs to me that this sort of thread talks a lot about NA and Japan and some about Russia, but not about Europe, I believe there are shows there too but don't know much about them?

Holiday on Ice and Art on Ice (and formerly Opera/Initmissimi on Ice) are the largest ice show productions in Western Europe (I’m excluding Disney on Ice and the ice show productions by Cirque du soleil here).

HoIiday on Ice (touring in Germany, France, Austria and the Netherlands) has managed to continue for eight decades (they started out as a North American production in 1942) by constantly adapting to current trends and changing customer demands and has been touted the most successful ice show of all time. As ladyjane said, they sometimes feature big names, but that's not the most important ingredient in their success - at least not these days. The last time I went to a HoI show, which featured Papadakis/Cizeron (on select dates only), with my family two years ago, no one in my family (which is made up of non-skating fans) would have been able to point them out among the cast, even if their lives depended on it. What everyone did comment on and enjoy, however, was the staging, which to my own surprise (as I had not been to a HoI show in three decades when this was pretty much still a classic revue-style show) was quite elaborate, with Cirque du soleil-style acrobatics and visual effects, including lavish costumes, pyrotechnics and technology such as floating and moving LED panels. Despite the expensive production, the show keeps afloat by constantly touring, often staying in one place for several days, with up to three performances a day. We attended the afternoon performance on a Saturday in a large multi-purpose arena (with a capacity of around 10,000 in its ice show configuration) in a densely populated area, and the venue was perhaps a third full. On the way out, however, we saw the queue for the evening performance, which was considerably longer.

A few statistics from their official website:

With over 80 years of success, more than 330 million spectators have experienced the magic live in over 100 different shows at almost 60,000 performances on five continents. ​

They also have five records recognised by Guinness World Records, among them "The most popular live show of all time with 250 million visitors" in 1988, "The most popular live entertainment production in the world with 300 million visitors" in 2003 and "The most visited ice show in the world with over 320 million visitors" in 2008.



Art on Ice’s (Switzerland) recipe for success is that they invite current skating stars as well as fairly popular music artists, even if the latter are not always among the most current names (the years I went they had Nelly Furtado and Tom Odell in 2015 and James Morrison, Chaka Khan, as well as Daniel Hope (and the Zürcher chamber orchestra) in 2017). It’s a spectacle that incorporates floor dancers, acrobats and a big production (i.e. large LED panels as backdrop, fairly elaborate stage designs and pyrotechnics).

AoI is held in two to four locations every year (Zürich, Davos, Lausanne, in recent years Basel or Fribourg), staying for 2-3 days in each location with up to two shows a day. As far as I can tell, the shows are always close to sold out. The years I went, especially in 2015, there unsuprisingly was a considerable number of Japanese fans due to Dai’s participation (the percentage was less in 2017, though). They also have after show-parties where the audience can mingle with the performers (which I didn’t attend, because the tickets are wickedly expensive ).



The biggest Western European ice show production was Opera/Initmissimi on Ice (Italy), which was held from 2011 to 2020 (I think the pandemic hit them pretty hard, forcing them to discontinue the show afterwards), a fusion of opera, figure skating, fashion (I think in some years there was a red carpet event involving fashion models and designers, among others) and a large-scale, state of the art production (i.e. I’m fairly certain that Intimissimi on Ice was the first ice show in the world to incorporate projection mapping back in 2014). The shows featured international figure skating stars as well as opera singers (the biggest name was Andrea Bocelli), large orchestras and choirs, and took place in stunning, unique locations such as the Arena di Verona, a Roman amphitheatre built in the year 30 AD.



My favourite show of those I've personally attended was "Ice Legends", produced by Stéphane Lambiel - a show with a top-notch cast and a focus on high-quality skating, in part accompanied by live pianists (Kotaro Fukuma in 2014 and Khatia Buniatishvili in 2016), but with a fairly minimalist production. Unfortunately it was discontinued after only being held twice. (The first one in 2014 was held to honor the 150th anniversary of diplomatic relations between Japan and Switzerland.) I guess it just wasn’t as appealing to general audiences as AoI and Music on Ice, but rather specifically geared towards skating fans, which seemingly aren’t numerous enough in Switzerland to fill a venue like the Patinoire des Vernets in Geneva with a capacity of about 7000. (Also, I suppose that the show perhaps wasn’t advertised aggressively enough.) Again, the year I went (2016), a considerable percentage of the crowd consisted of Japanese fans due to Mao’s and Dai’s participation, but there was only one performance and it wasn’t sold out.

Stéphane's most recent production "L'Apprenti Sorcier" took place at the ice rink in Champery, where his skating school is based, which seems to be better suited to the kind of shows he produces (for more details there is a thread in the ice show sub-forum).



There are several other annually recurring medium to fairly big scale shows like the aforementioned Music on Ice (Switzerland), BOL on Ice (Italy) or the Exquisit Eisgala (Germany), presented by Daniel Weiss, but I don’t know too much about them (I’m sure there are other GS members who do, though).

 

[Magill]

Not every competitive skater are natural fits to shows and having to skate and do elements under lights. It really takes a little lack of focus for disasters to happen. Add to it, many top competitive skaters are already carrying existing injuries, so doing many shows can aggravate those injuries, or worse.

But I also think doing shows can be a confidence booster for some who rarely gets the opportunity to do so, and for some competitive skaters they did actively use shows to build their programs towards competitions, as well as take notes from their seniors. I think it's just a matter of experience and strategy, on how to be entertaining for the audience, but also knowing where the limits are.

News just came in that Loena Hendrickx will do ankle surgery, and that she will do it after finishing her Art on Ice shows. That's kind of the discussion here, right? Loena stated that shows are different and it's important for her to end her season with a good feeling, hence she's still doing the show even when she has the surgery scheduled after. So having to skate in ice shows is something that benefits her personally, because she gets to end this season with hopefully some good skating memories, which is impossible for her to get from competitions due to her current injury not allowing her to jump the competitive jumps.

I do not know about Loena but I remember Rika Kihira performing for shows before and between surgeries, and many people expressing their concern and wish for her to have full rest, to which Brian Orser disclosed the simplest fact that she took this decision for financial reasons. And not to pay him for coaching which was covered, but just to pay for her everyday expenses. Life can be brutal and demanding, and to many skaters shows are like a lucrative holiday job which allows you to pay for your college, or sustain you throughout the academic year, while also helping you to keep in shape. I guess, especially if you have been out of competitions and it is to go on for a while, giving up on shows, too, could be a blow to your finances which you'd rather avoid at all and any costs. Plus you do not need to do your hardest elements, most difficult jumps etc. in shows so you can go a bit easier on your body and try to minimize the risks.

Agree on shows providing and being used as an opportunity to practice for competitions. In one of the most famous examples, Yuzuru used shows to practice when his home rink was damaged in the earthquake and closed for repairs. His situation was known, and he was a recent junior world champion and Japan's skating hope, so he was invited to as many shows as he could possibly handle ending up with 60 shows in just a few months, That's a lot. But he could use the ice to practice for the next season. And although he had been a natural performer since very young age, some see a connection between the PCS and performance giant he would become and him living for months at a show's backstage and performing for the public every few days at the forming age of 16.

He also mentioned many times how lucky he was to get a chance to meet all the great current then and retired skaters at the shows throughout his junior and early senior years and how beneficial it was for him to be able to ask them for specific advice on this or that but also just to observe them up close. Several young skaters of the next generation commented later on having met him at shows, in turn, and getting a bit of advice or just encouragement as an important boost to their development and motivation. I also recall Plushenko revealing that Alina Zagitova asked him for advice on learning a quad when they were touring in Japan together with one of the many shows there. So, yes, it seems shows provide a very natural and important practice and learning ground for competitive skaters while helping them to manage their finances. Those who receive invites - and by far, not all of them do - consider themselves lucky.

But there is also this darker side which is rarely mentioned. I recall Oksana Baiul blaming her early involvement as a teen with some US touring shows for her later drinking problems. She said the touring skaters were almost all adult, way older than her, retired from competitions and partying hard between the shows, way too hard for a young teen she was, and yet she was joining them. So it seems it does not come without some obvious risks resulting from minors and adults mixing and travelling together, and I wonder if there are precautions taken by now by show organizers to manage such risks.

 

[eppen]

You could also add recurring annual shows such as Music on Ice and Bol on Ice in Italy to the European scene, maybe also Kings on Ice (which revolved around Edwyn Marton and Plushenko back in the day but has featured also other skaters since the beginning of the Ukrainian war).

Javi's success led him to organize first a single show in 2016 Revolution On Ice in Madrid. I remember reading details about it afterwards and it could have ended up horribly. Javi and his manager put up all of their own and their families savings to get it going in the beginning, but if they had not gotten some rather good TV deals at the last minute, who knows how it would have ended. The venue they used was not a rink but rather a concert hall/bull fighting arena, so they had to get ice etc. there. The show itself was built a bit like Art on Ice but with Spanish musical artists and Spanish and international skaters, solos, group numbers, acrobatics and aerials. It was pretty much sold out IIRC - a 12 000 seater.

After 2017-18 season (Javi's last full one), they went for the second edition which was a tour in Spain starting in November and ending at New Year in Madrid. Same concept as the first time, but bigger. The sizes of the venues varied from a couple of thousand to the massive Palacio Vistalegre in Madrid and quite a few of the shows were sold out. David Wilson and Sandra Bezic were artistic directors and choreographers and brought in the experience. And probably also Yuna Kim which was a huge deal since TV rights to South Korea brought in a lot of money AFAIK. They also had Spanish sponsors and worked often with local authorities/organizations to create interest even beyond the biggest cities.

And they managed to repeat the feat in 2019 in the same manner. The number of people involved in both tours was quite high since they did have to build the ice, lights, etc. in each location - Spain does not have any proper ice arenas. It took a couple days to build the set before the show (and taking down was probably faster). TV productions in the last shows always added to the oraganization. IIRC the crew was some 200 strong.

The 2022 post-pandemic return got canceled bcs the Ukrainian war as they had too many Russian skaters to be replaced at a moment's notice.

I went to see the first dates in Malaga and the shows in Madrid in 2018 and the two Madrid shows in 2019. And I kind of liked it despite not being a huge show fan in general. The last show in 2018 ended with a Spanish music superstar Pablo Alboran doing an unannounced appearance to play Prometo to Javi's number (which was the coolest show routine I have ever seen).

I think it was amazing that they managed to do this all in Spain based on interested generated by one star skater... It was a mad idea in the first place, but they were lucky and learned quickly. The uniqueness of it in Spain was maybe also a factor in its success.

E

 

[TallyT]

You could also add recurring annual shows such as Music on Ice and Bol on Ice in Italy to the European scene, maybe also Kings on Ice (which revolved around Edwyn Marton and Plushenko back in the day but has featured also other skaters since the beginning of the Ukrainian war).

Javi's success led him to organize first a single show in 2016 Revolution On Ice in Madrid. I remember reading details about it afterwards and it could have ended up horribly. Javi and his manager put up all of their own and their families savings to get it going in the beginning, but if they had not gotten some rather good TV deals at the last minute, who knows how it would have ended. The venue they used was not a rink but rather a concert hall/bull fighting arena, so they had to get ice etc. there. The show itself was built a bit like Art on Ice but with Spanish musical artists and Spanish and international skaters, solos, group numbers, acrobatics and aerials. It was pretty much sold out IIRC - a 12 000 seater.

After 2017-18 season (Javi's last full one), they went for the second edition which was a tour in Spain starting in November and ending at New Year in Madrid. Same concept as the first time, but bigger. The sizes of the venues varied from a couple of thousand to the massive Palacio Vistalegre in Madrid and quite a few of the shows were sold out. David Wilson and Sandra Bezic were artistic directors and choreographers and brought in the experience. And probably also Yuna Kim which was a huge deal since TV rights to South Korea brought in a lot of money AFAIK. They also had Spanish sponsors and worked often with local authorities/organizations to create interest even beyond the biggest cities.

And they managed to repeat the feat in 2019 in the same manner. The number of people involved in both tours was quite high since they did have to build the ice, lights, etc. in each location - Spain does not have any proper ice arenas. It took a couple days to build the set before the show (and taking down was probably faster). TV productions in the last shows always added to the oraganization. IIRC the crew was some 200 strong.

The 2022 post-pandemic return got canceled bcs the Ukrainian war as they had too many Russian skaters to be replaced at a moment's notice.

I went to see the first dates in Malaga and the shows in Madrid in 2018 and the two Madrid shows in 2019. And I kind of liked it despite not being a huge show fan in general. The last show in 2018 ended with a Spanish music superstar Pablo Alboran doing an unannounced appearance to play Prometo to Javi's number (which was the coolest show routine I have ever seen).

I think it was amazing that they managed to do this all in Spain based on interested generated by one star skater... It was a mad idea in the first place, but they were lucky and learned quickly. The uniqueness of it in Spain was maybe also a factor in its success.

E

It is sad that external factors brought it to a halt, as Javi was creating something unique for his country there.

 

[Mathman]

But there is also this darker side which is rarely mentioned. I recall Oksana Baiul blaming her early involvement as a teen with some US touring shows for her later drinking problems. She said the touring skaters were almost all adult, way older than her, retired from competitions and partying hard between the shows, way too hard for a young teen she was, and yet she was joining them.

Some touring shows, and some individual parents of young skaters, have taken this problem quite seriously. Champions on Ice had a lot of very young performers, fresh from world or Olympic medals. Often they were accompanied on tour by an older sister or by a parent as chaperon. Also there were a number of established adult performers -- Todd Eldgrege was one as I recall-- who took unofficial responsibility for watching over the kids in the show.

 

[Magill]

Some touring shows, and some individual parents of young skaters, have taken this problem quite seriously. Champions on Ice had a lot of very young performers, fresh from world or Olympic medals. Often they were accompanied on tour by an older sister or by a parent as chaperon. Also there were a number of established adult performers -- Todd Eldgrege was one as I recall-- who took unofficial responsibility for watching over the kids in the show.

Good to know. Thanks for sharing!

 

[Anna K.]

I think it was amazing that they managed to do this all in Spain based on interested generated by one star skater... It was a mad idea in the first place, but they were lucky and learned quickly. The uniqueness of it in Spain was maybe also a factor in its success.

E

I absolutely agree that this is an amazing achievement and I would expect from Javi nothing less than that
Is there a chance that they could return? Several subsequent blows (pandemics and cancelled return shows), that's bad and I understand it can take a few years to recover. But what does Javi say about the future? Should we have a Spanish thread in the Ice Show subforum for updates?

ps - it occurs to me that this sort of thread talks a lot about NA and Japan and some about Russia, but not about Europe, I believe there are shows there too but don't know much about them?

Ice shows in Europe happen all the time but there is a problem: these shows neither tour nor become a stationary tourist attraction for a period long enough to become a real money-maker. From a show perspective, like I said (did I ) earlier: becoming a money-maker is not necessarily a goal when you create a show. The goal may be to earn enough to keep things running and be here the other day.
It's hard to say if such "being here" is enough from the perspective of the impact on competitive figure skating (i.e. motivation for skaters to develop artistry) because, if the project is not growing, there is only that much employment.

 

[Magill]

When I thought about starting this topic, I actually wanted to start it with an example.
That example is Nathan Chen. When we saw him as a 10 y.o. child skating to Peter And The Wolf, we saw a child who absolutely enjoyed performing. Today, he's 26, he is an Olympic champion, and he is in real estate. Why?

I'm afraid you mixed up Nathan Chen and Patrick Chan
Patrick Chan is in real estate but he's 35 or so. Nathan Chen graduated from Yale and is currently in a pre-med program preparing to study medicine which AFAIK he had mentioned many times as his long term career goal, even before he won OGM. I guess, like any pre-med or med student, he's very busy with his studies. Why? Because he wants to be a doctor. What's wrong with that?

 

[TallyT]

I also think Boyang was the first major multi-quad skater...