2024-25 Canadian Figure Skating

[saine]

Basically, the Canadian senior singles A Team is placing worse than the US senior singles B (or honestly, C+, especially for the men's) team at 4CC.

But ice dance won gold and bronze and pairs won silver and bronze so that's great too.

We know how they placed. No need to tell us that you think they placed worse than what you consider the B and C+ US singles. Considering how many medals they won, they're pretty good for what you consider the B or C team. No need to put them down like that as well.

There's more to skating than singles and we want to celebrate the skaters that did well. The Canadian team is accomplished in their own way, along with all the other skaters who competed there. It's a season long goal for some of them to make it here, and I'd hate for them to see someone putting them down for not placing high enough for the standards of some person on the internet.

 

[4everchan]

Basically, the Canadian senior singles A Team is placing worse than the US senior singles B (or honestly, C+, especially for the men's) team at 4CC.

But ice dance won gold and bronze and pairs won silver and bronze so that's great too.

you cannot have it both ways.

we are celebrating the medals earned, regardless.

It is as if we disregarded the achievements of the entire Japanese silver medal team event at the olympic because they had the worst dance team in the finals. I saw many celebrations for that silver medal and no comment of that sort. So why now ? Why when Canadians win medals in specific events and are not yet at the top of the world in others ?

Oh and you know, maybe Japan should send their A team because not winning a single medal in singles just makes it look like their B or C+ team isn't that great after all.

Just saying.

 

[rabidline]

Oh and you know, maybe Japan should send their A team because not winning a single medal in singles just makes it look like their B or C+ team isn't that great after all.

They're not.

 

[4everchan]

They're not.

Your words, not mine. Some of my favourite performances came from that "B" team

 

[rabidline]

Your words, not mine. Some of my favourite performances came from that "B" team

Mine too. They still lost to the B team of the US, and in the men's case, they all lost to Jimmy Ma. It's how sports goes- someone has to place below others: losing. Great thing about skating is that you still can appreciate the performances, but talking about sports, it was a disappointing showing from all of them, especially the frontrunners (ex-champions and reigning champions, ex-medalists. I give more leeway for newcomers like Tatsuya).

 

[4everchan]

Mine too. They still lost to the B team of the US, and in the men's case, they all lost to Jimmy Ma. It's how sports goes- someone has to place below others: losing.

And that's fine. So why not celebrate Jimmy and the wonderful performance of the American women ? Why not celebrate Piper and Paul winning against the world champions or Deanna and Max, having their season's best event...after having to w/d at GPF... Why not celebrate Lia and Trennt who snatched a bronze with two solid performances after the illness she went through arriving in Korea... Why not celebrate Zach's costume upgrade and his wonderful stubble Such a stud ?

That's all we are doing here We are not saying that the Canadian number 2 team in pairs beat all three American pairs, including their current and former national champions... It's useless don't you think so ?

I guess I am of the glass half full sort of people... YMMV

 

[rabidline]

And that's fine. So why not celebrate Jimmy and the wonderful performance of the American women ? Why not celebrate Piper and Paul winning against the world champions or Deanna and Max, having their season's best event...after having to w/d at GPF... Why not celebrate Lia and Trennt who snatched a bronze with two solid performances after the illness she went through arriving in Korea... Why not celebrate Zach's costume upgrade and his wonderful stubble Such a stud ?

That's great. Why responding to me then?

 

[rabidline]

We know how they placed. No need to tell us that you think they placed worse than what you consider the B and C+ US singles. Considering how many medals they won, they're pretty good for what you consider the B or C team. No need to put them down like that as well.

It's not even my opinion, it's what's written on the results table of this competition and their Nationals competitions (and subsequent international assignments).

 

[4everchan]

That's great. Why responding to me then?

Maybe it's because of the nature of this thread. We are a few but passionate Canadian fans... + a few fans who also celebrate Canadian skating... but from time to time, a few posters come with the negative banter... raining on our parade.. In times of great achievements, or in times of drought, there are always a few people, often the same ones, who come here to say how bad the state of skating is in Canada. Canada's population is almost 9 times smaller than USA, 3 times smaller than Japan. It is smaller than Korea, Italy, Germany, France, the UK. It is absolutely normal and expected that there is less depth in figure skating, especially in a country where hockey and even speed skating (both long and short track) have big traditions and greater successes at the Olympic games.

For instance, short track speed skaters have only been competing since 1992 and have won 37 medals for Canada, as opposed to the 29 (5 of which belong to Tessa and Scott) of figure skaters, the sport having been an Olympic sport for over a century.

 

[saine]

It's not even my opinion, it's what's written on the results table.

You called Alysa Liu, Bradie Tennell and Sarah Everhardt B team. You called two-time National bronze medalist Camden Pulkinen C+ team. That is what your opinion is. That is what I am taking issue with. You are bringing in American skaters to put them down like that as well because you think they aren't the A-team when all the American singles skaters, including the men, are accomplished.

You came into the Canadian thread to put down Canadian skaters and are acting like you are just stating facts and we're all oblivious to them. We are not.

The only reason to come into this thread and make posts like that is to rile people up. And unfortunately, it is working. So I'm done with you.

 

[4everchan]

It's not even my opinion, it's what's written on the results table of this competition and their Nationals competitions (and subsequent international assignments).

The results table doesn't label skaters as B or C+ skaters I doubt Wakaba Higuchi or Alisa Liu would appreciate that comment as former world medalists.

 

[rabidline]

You called Alysa Liu, Bradie Tennell and Sarah Everhardt B team. You called two-time National bronze medalist Camden Pulkinen C+ team. That is what your opinion is. That is what I am taking issue with. You are bringing in American skaters to put them down like that as well because you think they aren't the A-team when all the American singles skaters, including the men, are accomplished.

You came into the Canadian thread to put down Canadian skaters and are acting like you are just stating facts and we're all oblivious to them. We are not.

The only reason to come into this thread and make posts like that is to rile people up. And unfortunately, it is working. So I'm done with you.

Well, yes. Because clearly Amber Glenn, Ilia Malinin and Andrew Torgashev are currently the A Team of the US. Next season it's likely to be different, but it is what it is.

There's nothing wrong with having good past achievements but now being the B or C tier of the National team. It's how sports work. Including if you're Wakaba Higuchi and Alysa Liu. If anything it speaks to the depth of their local field that they have to climb back up and prove their worth, instead of being chosen because there's literally no one else. And that's how it relates to this thread.

 

[rabidline]

The results table doesn't label skaters as B or C+ skaters I doubt Wakaba Higuchi or Alisa Liu would appreciate that comment as former world medalists.

Why? It's not an insult. And considering this is Alysa's first season after several years of retirement, and Wakaba almost quit skating a few seasons ago, B team with their depth of field is already high and impressive enough and the only thing keeping them from A team is consistency (for Wakaba) and more competition time (for Alysa).

Also you need to differentiate between A/B/C level teams and A/B/C level skaters. Not saying anything about the quality of each skaters, but competition wise, they're the B or C teams of their field. It just means they're not the very top of it (or treated with benefit of the doubt like the very top, like Isabeau and Jason).

Ice dance? A vs. A. Pairs? A vs A with Canada B team performing very well.

 

[4everchan]

Well, yes. Because clearly Amber Glenn, Ilia Malinin and Andrew Torgashev are currently the A Team of the US. Next season it's likely to be different, but it is what it is.

There's nothing wrong with having good past achievements but now being the B or C tier of the National team. It's how sports work. Including if you're Wakaba Higuchi and Alysa Liu. If anything it speaks to the depth of their local field that they have to climb back up and prove their worth, instead of being chosen because there's literally no one else. And that's how it relates to this thread.

Kaiya, fee Ann, Uliana, Lauriault Le Gac could have been sent with better results at nationals. Our men are injured and unavailable right now. The facts are that Canada sent their National champion, the sixth place finisher and Aleksa who finished 14th at Nationals after wd from the LP. The second and third place finisher at Nationals are junior skaters with no senior experience internationally.

 

[4everchan]

Why? It's not an insult.

To you it may not sound like it is. I don't like these labels on figure skaters or athletes. Ymmv

 

[rabidline]

Kaiya, fee Ann, Uliana, Lauriault Le Gac could have been sent with better results at nationals. Our men are injured and unavailable right now. The facts are that Canada sent their National champion, the sixth place finisher and Aleksa who finished 14th at Nationals after wd from the LP. The second and third place finisher at Nationals are junior skaters with no senior experience internationally.

And it's fine. But that's also Canada's A team right now - the best they can field internationally, and if the men continue to be injured and unavailable, then it's likely that you have to be patient to get to a place where the A team is more competitive, or more, that you will have B and C team who are competitive everywhere else on their good days.

And it happens to other countries too! Kao Miura and Kazuki Tomono are on the B Team of Japan right now because they did not do well at the GP series and Nationals. Wakaba Higuchi and Rino Matsuike are on the B Team because before this year, they respectively are the 12th and 17th place finishers at their Nationals. It's just a normal thing in sports, and it has nothing to do with their quality as skaters, more of their competitive abilities and execution.

 

[4everchan]

I think we have different views about this. Thanks for trying to explain your pov in a diligent manner but I just will agree to disagree as I don't see athletes this way. I think some of us are reacting strongly because it is very far from our values to simply label human beings like those To me, an athletic career s a long term process and is not defined by isolated results. I understand that funding is based on results and that even in Canada we do have carding.. but that's besides the point. I gather it is a cultural difference. I'll leave it at that.

 

[Flying Feijoa]

Well, yes. Because clearly Amber Glenn, Ilia Malinin and Andrew Torgashev are currently the A Team of the US. Next season it's likely to be different, but it is what it is.

There's nothing wrong with having good past achievements but now being the B or C tier of the National team. It's how sports work. Including if you're Wakaba Higuchi and Alysa Liu. If anything it speaks to the depth of their local field that they have to climb back up and prove their worth, instead of being chosen because there's literally no one else. And that's how it relates to this thread.

It's a bit misleading to label skaters as belonging to X or Y team based on who is assigned to which major competition, since every country has its own criteria (e.g. nationals vs body of work). Skaters' results can fluctuate quite a bit between competitions and are subject to external factors (like norovirus or injury/recovery), so a categorisation based on past results is in quite fluid. One can estimate their scoring potential based on base value and recent trends, but nothing's set in stone..

It might be relevant to mention that the Japanese 'strengthening A/B etc.' groups are just funding tier categories based on past season results. Other countries have the same thing. Sometimes skaters are stuck in a low tier after a tough previous season even if the current season is going well for them... I wouldn't describe these as 'teams' either.

Sorry I took ages to write this reply My points have been mostly addressed already by now. With regards to the origins of this segue, I don't think Canadian fans have rose-tinted glasses, they're just giving encouragement where needed to each other/their skaters. It's understood that the current depth of field in singles is less than the US or Japan, so there's not really any need to go into details about domestic rankings within each country.

 

[Flying Feijoa]

I think we have different views about this. Thanks for trying to explain your pov in a diligent manner but I just will agree to disagree as I don't see athletes this way. I think some of us are reacting strongly because it is very far from our values to simply label human beings like those To me, an athletic career s a long term process and is not defined by isolated results. I understand that funding is based on results and that even in Canada we do have carding.. but that's besides the point. I gather it is a cultural difference. I'll leave it at that.

Similar sentiment, much more succintly put

 

[rabidline]

I think we have different views about this. Thanks for trying to explain your pov in a diligent manner but I just will agree to disagree as I don't see athletes this way. I think some of us are reacting strongly because it is very far from our values to simply label human beings like those To me, an athletic career s a long term process and is not defined by isolated results. I understand that funding is based on results and that even in Canada we do have carding.. but that's besides the point. I gather it is a cultural difference. I'll leave it at that.

It's not much different than seeing it through the lens of the overall medal table, which Canada is topping at 4CC, as you said, because of their gold too. That's also seeing it from isolated results, although as you say you are seeing it form a glass half full perspective. But with glass half full there's also people who see it with a glass half empty perspective, and it's me. This isn't a Fan Fest after all.