If one is foolish enough to wander into the realm of defamation, we have courts for that. But the case needs to hold up under scrutiny. Having said that, that doesn't mean one can just yell "DEFAMATION!" because one doesn't like an opinion, either. There is specific criteria set for what qualifies as defamation. Seriously, some of the online responses to this Lease guy could be used to obtain a restraining order. The words coming out of their mouth is worse than anything Lease said in the video. I have no doubt some ignoramus who cares nothing about the law will start giving him death threats.
Statement from USFS regarding Dave Lease
- Thread starter moonvine
- Start date
If one is foolish enough to wander into the realm of defamation, we have courts for that. But the case needs to hold up under scrutiny. Having said that, that doesn't mean one can just yell "DEFAMATION!" because one doesn't like an opinion, either. There is specific criteria set for what qualifies as defamation. Seriously, some of the online responses to this Lease guy could be used to obtain a restraining order. The words coming out of their mouth is worse than anything Lease said in the video. I have no doubt some ignoramus who cares nothing about the law will start giving him death threats.
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- Sep 8, 2016
I can't find the ISU statement of their response to TSL. Was it a written statement?
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- May 15, 2024
Are you aware that defamation is only one of many dignitary torts? What Lease said would be infliction of emotional distress in US and in PL he would violate right to mourning and good memory of the deceased.
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The only official statement about this was from USFS. I don't think there's anything from the ISU, nor do I expect there would be.
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- Jun 21, 2003
It is cruel and hurtful to taunt grieving parents by going out of your way to say,, oh well, too bad abbot the plane crash, but , you know, your kid wasn't a very good singer anyway -- no one will miss him.
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- Mar 3, 2014
Exactly.
And then to try to hide behind, oh, I was just trying to help parents, I was just trying to show what a scam this was. Poor widdle me, just being attacked for dropping truth bombs. As if.
Pathetic.
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- Feb 14, 2018
Agreed. Using the phrase "out of context" is making an excuse for what was said. It doesn't come across as a true apology
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- Feb 14, 2018
I find that apologies tend to be not handled correctly by both the giver and receiver.
I agree with you that he needs to do more.
This part:
I am deeply apologetic...
I am ashamed by my choice of words...
...brought out aspects of myself that I am not always proud of...
I need to step away from the sport and social media to reflect and reevaluate...
I am deeply sorry for the pain that this has caused...
I agree that this is a step in the right direction. However, the "out of context" invalidates it, as it puts the blame on the people who were offended. They were the ones who 'misunderstood' his words. A correctly worded apology wouldn't do that.
He needs to offer a genuine apology, and then take his break from figure skating and social media.
After that it is up to everyone as to whether they accept the apology or not, but then move on. Someone can choose not to accept the apology, but that doesn't give that someone the right to hang this over his head forever.
That last sentence is not a defense of what he said, or an expression of sympathy for him. My reaction to this incident will be as follows:
I don't accept his apology. I will not watch any of his social media or anything that he has a part of. If he decides to return, and makes things better, at that point my stance may change. It may not. But if it doesn't, that doesn't mean I'll be trolling his accounts and saying "you did this! You did this!" If I choose not to accept his apology, that's on me.
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- Jan 28, 2013
I enjoyed your post above @CellarDweller
As I previously stated in this thread, I've enjoyed some of his content. I've also found some of it to be irrelevant to my needs as a fan of figure skating.
If he returns to social media, I expect that I'll continue to watch what I enjoy... but the content I find useful surrounds the interesting guests he brings in, and I think it unlikely they agree to come to his show now. So, in reality, I suppose that means I won't watch - not to punish him, but because without the guests, I don't find much to entice me to watch.
I have no stake in Dave Lease. I hope he learns from this on a personal level, and that he grows as a man. I believe individuals make mistakes, and they deserve a chance at forgiveness and redemption if they do the work to warrant it. I would not want my legacy to be my worst moments, and I can't wish that on him either.
I hope someone is savvy enough to step into the space he's created. His popularity was not based solely on his gossipy, bitchy segments - that was not for me, for example. Quite a few of us will miss the interviews which often provided historical background and perspective. I also didn't mind some of the personal vignettes... his work with Paul Wylie learning to skate figures and improve his spins, for instance. Right now the focus in on his worst qualities, but there are some positive aspects as well. A more polished individual could run with this.
As I previously stated in this thread, I've enjoyed some of his content. I've also found some of it to be irrelevant to my needs as a fan of figure skating.
If he returns to social media, I expect that I'll continue to watch what I enjoy... but the content I find useful surrounds the interesting guests he brings in, and I think it unlikely they agree to come to his show now. So, in reality, I suppose that means I won't watch - not to punish him, but because without the guests, I don't find much to entice me to watch.
I have no stake in Dave Lease. I hope he learns from this on a personal level, and that he grows as a man. I believe individuals make mistakes, and they deserve a chance at forgiveness and redemption if they do the work to warrant it. I would not want my legacy to be my worst moments, and I can't wish that on him either.
I hope someone is savvy enough to step into the space he's created. His popularity was not based solely on his gossipy, bitchy segments - that was not for me, for example. Quite a few of us will miss the interviews which often provided historical background and perspective. I also didn't mind some of the personal vignettes... his work with Paul Wylie learning to skate figures and improve his spins, for instance. Right now the focus in on his worst qualities, but there are some positive aspects as well. A more polished individual could run with this.
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- Jan 25, 2013
Expressing an opinion is one thing, but think about the context in which he expressed that. If he was on TSL This or That randomly pontificating about how young skaters who are (in his opinion) untalented shouldn't pursue elite skating, that would be a jerk thing to say -- but it is a completely and unjustifiably abhorrent to criticize a group of dead skaters.... during the recap of their memorial, no less... as an opportunity to get on a soapbox about these dead skaters are inferior or unworthy.
He called dead kids not that talented -- kids who are no longer able to even demonstrate what talent/potential they could have achieved. Think about how unconscionably messed up that is. Not that anyone owes Dave freaking Lease (of all people) anything, but they are no longer alive to even prove him wrong. It was cowardly, beyond tactless, and just vile.
If you say something grossly awful or unpopular, on the internet, when you've got a platform... chances are more than one person is going to call you out on it or have something to say about it. You don't just get to spew awful things into the ether, and expect no ramifications because "Oh, free speech!" As many have mentioned free speech doesn't make you 'free' from criticism or consequences.
For sure... "It's free speech" is such a lazy, dismissive, apologist quip which ultimately just trivializes when people say cruel, misinformed, or even dangerous things. Usually these people are cut from the same cloth of those whose opinions they're trying to absolve, and say or do things themselves with little heed to people's feelings or any accountability. Straight up trash.
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- Sep 1, 2020
Exactly. The losses are raw and deep. No one who was lost in this tragedy will ever be forgotten. My heart and mind definitely went to Spencer Lane, who was a prodigy, and also to Jinna Han, Sean Kay, Angela Yang, Eddie Zhou, Franco Aparicio, Everly & Alydia Livingston, Brielle Beyer, Cory Haynos; to all skaters, coaches, parents, and other passengers. Vadim Naumov and Eugenia Shishkova were dedicated coaches, brilliant former champion skaters, and boundlessly kind people. Their loss is immeasurable and beyond heartbreaking for their son, Max, and for all their close friends and loved ones who daily feel bereft.
The point is not about assessing the talent of any of the air crash victims, but continuing to mourn while also trying to find ways to carry on in the face of sudden, unbearable loss. It's important to remember how much joy these human beings gave to others during their lives. All the skaters possessed bright potential and the capacity to shine whether or not they all rose to the top in skating or eventually moved on to other pursuits either in their younger years or after building rewarding skating careers. Their lives were cut off suddenly, so we will never know what they might have achieved. Coming to grips with this fact is a big part of the endless heartbreak.
While I sadly did not know any of these skaters previously since I rarely have time to view events of younger competitors, finding out about them all after they died so needlessly has been gut-wrenching. Many who mourn may feel numbed by the endless grief and life has to move on, but there is no excuse for the critiques Lease uttered being directed toward anyone lost in that tragic plane crash. In general, if Lease and his supporters want to say he is trying to be a positive voice for change, they need to recognize that his lack of tact combined with his petty insensitivity and self-centered attention-seeking benefits no one.
I am reminded of all the wonderful and poignant remembrances by some of the development camp leaders and by friends and colleagues of the coaches and skaters. I hope everyone saw the recent tribute to Spencer Lane posted on Instagram by his costume designer @lavenderthreadco
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I wonder if anyone at Dave's funeral will say, "I am devastated... but Dave should have never been allowed the privilege of training with an Olympic silver medalist, when he can't even land an axel."
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- Jan 10, 2014
That is the kind of coverage I enjoyed back in the day when I watched his youtube channel. I don't approve of some of the more catty/mean comments, but hey, he FAFO-ed. I imagine this has been devastating for him- though not even close to the devastation to the families/friends of the skaters feel. If/when he comes back, I hope that he will refrain from any language that is hurtful. One can be honest without being nasty.
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- Mar 14, 2007
I haven’t seen an ISU one. Just a USFS one.
I cannot believe there is even a discussion about this. Badmouthing DEAD children is just incredibly cruel and cynical and there is NO excuse for it. Freedom of speech does not even come into it, as others have pointed out this person will not go to jail for their statements. This is just about basic human decency, or the lack of it.
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- Mar 14, 2007
I could not find it. Can you link it?I am reminded of all the wonderful and poignant remembrances by some of the development camp leaders and by friends and colleagues of the coaches and skaters. I hope everyone saw the recent tribute to Spencer Lane posted on Instagram by his costume designer @lavenderthreadco
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- Feb 12, 2014
Lavender Thread Co. on Instagram: "Approaching a year ago, I had the most incredible privilege to start working with @spencerskates26 on his first-ever skating costumes. We weren’t sure where this new competitive skating career would go, but Spencer,
776 likes, 73 comments - lavenderthreadco on February 4, 2025: "Approaching a year ago, I had the most incredible privilege to start working with @spencerskates26 on his first-ever skating costumes. We weren’t sure where this new competitive skating career would go, but Spencer, his family, and...
www.instagram.com
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- Jan 25, 2013
Some people going over board in their reaction to him makes them awful people too. It does not absolve him of what he said, nor should be used as a means of making people feel sorry for him and trivializing the things he said.
"What makes me uncomfortable is, not everyone who's on that plane was that talented at skating, right? Like, I don't think it was worth, like, the gamble of giving up your life and your education and everything for skating. Like that's what hit me when I was doing the... writing tributes to people. Like, these people died - and yes they were at a development camp which they loved... but they were also being taken advantage of, because we all knew they weren't going to make it in skating, right? Like, and it seemed like their families were hook line and sinker, you know involved."
It's insane that THAT'S what "hit him" when writing the tributes. Not the LOSS of talent, but (in his opinion) the LACK of talent. Not that they're dead and will miss out on the rest of their lives (nevermind skating careers).... but that they were undeserving of attending such a camp in the first place, needlessly giving up their lives (as if they had the foresight to know their plane would crash), and laying the blame on their families for supporting their skating careers.
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- Jan 28, 2013
I wonder if anyone at Dave's funeral will say, "I am devastated... but Dave should have never been allowed the privilege of training with an Olympic silver medalist, when he can't even land an axel."
I'm not sure what you're getting at. The clip you snipped from my post came from a paragraph expressing my hope that someone else steps into the space where interesting interviews and educational segments of figure skating are discussed and illustrated. You might think that's unimportant, but it hardly merits the snark and eye roll.
