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- Feb 5, 2004
Morozov Vs. Chait
- Thread starter sillylionlove
- Start date
They were a married couple.
Michelle Kwan, I suppose. See, you can get her into any thread!
Morosov did choreograph a program for Kwan, so you never know.
A French ex-figure skater. She's on the staff list:
http://www.icehousenj.com/figureskating_coaches.aspx
- Joined
- Jul 28, 2003
Libby, being a Jewish agnostic myself, I am well aware that it's not just a religion. Having said that, Oksana was not even aware of her grandmother, the woman who actually raised her, being Jewish. She only found out about it from her father. That's why I doubt she self-identifies as Jewish, and I believe (whatever Halachic law says) that self identification is the key to being Jewish.
Yes, they were married, but it was just a fictitious marriage. That was the only way they could represent Belarus.
Well, I'm afraid that what "you believe" is not in agreement with Jewish law, so it is a bit unkind of you to be as rudely sarcastic as you were ("Please! What a joke! Don't make me laugh!") toward anyone calling Oksana Jewish.
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- Jul 28, 2003
All right, let me explain this a bit, then (I wasn't going to go there, but anyway). A Russian Jewish comedian Guberman recently noted "The more Jews leave Russia, the more remain". What does he mean by that? Well, just that during the Soviet times people did everything they could to hide their Jewish identity. People gave children mothers' last names instead of fathers' if they sounded more "Russian", people avoided telling their children about their Jewish ancestors, etc. Now, though, being Jewish is rather cool. Yes, sure, antisemitism in Russia is as strong as ever, but it is no longer "from the top down". Being Jewish now makes you just that much more "different" to be cool. So, people have suddenly dug up their Jewish roots. The same people who wanted nothing to do with a "Cohen" grandfather will now profess that his influence was the centerpiece of their world view. I have very little respect for all this.
Also, it is actually questionable whether a person remains Jewish upon actively converting/ practicing another faith. As I understand, opinions do vary on this (perhaps you recall the controversy over Oswald Rufeisen's Israeli citizenship). And, ASFAIK, Oskana is baptised and practices Orthodox Christianity.
Now, I know what the Halachic law says. However, yes I find it ironic. A friend of mine, who actually officiated at my wedding, has recently found out that she was not Jewish (apparently her maternal great-grandmother was Polish, and no records exist to indicate if she went through Giur). Now, this lady, who keeps strict Sabbath, full koshrut, says blessings and does the handwashing before every meal, etc. - she wasn't Jewish until going through Giur (her rabbi let her take Giur in Israel essentially against the ministry's rules)?! But some antisemite (I am not talking about Oksana here) who happens to have a Jewish great-great-great-great-grandmother is?! Yes, I do not find this "right".
Also, it is actually questionable whether a person remains Jewish upon actively converting/ practicing another faith. As I understand, opinions do vary on this (perhaps you recall the controversy over Oswald Rufeisen's Israeli citizenship). And, ASFAIK, Oskana is baptised and practices Orthodox Christianity.
Now, I know what the Halachic law says. However, yes I find it ironic. A friend of mine, who actually officiated at my wedding, has recently found out that she was not Jewish (apparently her maternal great-grandmother was Polish, and no records exist to indicate if she went through Giur). Now, this lady, who keeps strict Sabbath, full koshrut, says blessings and does the handwashing before every meal, etc. - she wasn't Jewish until going through Giur (her rabbi let her take Giur in Israel essentially against the ministry's rules)?! But some antisemite (I am not talking about Oksana here) who happens to have a Jewish great-great-great-great-grandmother is?! Yes, I do not find this "right".
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I'm just not really sure it's up to you, Ptichka, to determine the sincerity of Oksana Bauil's self-image as a Jew. You have no idea what her motivations are for pursuing her Jewish heritage - she has been very proud of it and taken pains to do a great deal of good for the Jewish community in the Ukraine, even studying up on the religion. I fail to see why you should be judge and jury of her "Jewishness". Do all the Jews of the world need to report to you and pass your test in order to be declared officially Jewish? Maybe you can just leave it up to them or better yet, Jewish law.
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- Jul 28, 2003
Only if they want my opinion, which I am sure they do not
As I've said, I have a much bigger problem with who is excluded from the definition by law than by who is included into it.
Not just that but from what I understand Oksana was never told that she was Jewish. She had suspicians but it was never confirmed until she met with her father. And remember too her mom died when she was of a young age.... So I don't see why Oksana is getting the bum rap here.
That seems far fetched.
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[Re; Navka and Morozov married
Yes, they were married, but it was just a fictitious marriage. That was the only way they could represent Belarus.[/QUOTE]
Yikes, could we keep the urban legends about fake marriages straight?
Navka is from Dneprpetrovk; Morozov is from Moscow. Surely hard to tell how a fake marriage would help them get Belarussian citizenship (which one, btw?); especially when Belarus seemed to just give it to Soldatova. (She said she took the overnight train and was given it by the president the next day - course, turned out it wasn't right, blah, blah.)
The fake marriage was supposedly between Navka and Kostomarov, which would supposedly help Navka get Russian citizenship. However, Navka has denied this rumor. Moreover, if she graduated a Russian secondary school (probably did) or institute of higher education, she had quite an easy path to Russian citizenship. (Assuming this law was in place in 1998, when she teamed up with Kostomarov for the 98-9 season.) Supposedly citizens of all CIS states can apply for Russian citizenship and get it in due time. Pressure from RFSF should move up that "due time" So there is really no need to arrange a fictitious marriage to get Russian citizenship, so as to represent Russia in the Olympics.
Yes, they were married, but it was just a fictitious marriage. That was the only way they could represent Belarus.[/QUOTE]
Yikes, could we keep the urban legends about fake marriages straight?
Navka is from Dneprpetrovk; Morozov is from Moscow. Surely hard to tell how a fake marriage would help them get Belarussian citizenship (which one, btw?); especially when Belarus seemed to just give it to Soldatova. (She said she took the overnight train and was given it by the president the next day - course, turned out it wasn't right, blah, blah.)
The fake marriage was supposedly between Navka and Kostomarov, which would supposedly help Navka get Russian citizenship. However, Navka has denied this rumor. Moreover, if she graduated a Russian secondary school (probably did) or institute of higher education, she had quite an easy path to Russian citizenship. (Assuming this law was in place in 1998, when she teamed up with Kostomarov for the 98-9 season.) Supposedly citizens of all CIS states can apply for Russian citizenship and get it in due time. Pressure from RFSF should move up that "due time" So there is really no need to arrange a fictitious marriage to get Russian citizenship, so as to represent Russia in the Olympics.
- Joined
- Jul 28, 2003
Maureen, you're absolutely right, sorry! Kostomarov was the one Navka married to be able to represent Russia instead of Belarus which she was representing with Morozov. As it was, she couldn't marry Zhulin at the time because he was still married to Usova.
- Joined
- Mar 25, 2008
Has this rule been changed since? Or did Yuko Kawaguchi have to marry someone Russian, too?
First, Navka skated with Gezalian for Belarus. They even made it to 1994 Olys (which means she already had a Belarusian citizenship before teaming up with Morozov)
Between 1996 and 1998 Navka skated with Morozov for Belarus. They represented Belarus in 1998 Olys.
Wiki says "She was briefly married to Nikolai Morozov, so she could obtain citizenship for Belarus".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tatiana_Navka
It can't be true, it has to be Morozov who needed a Belarusian citizenship at the time.
Navka and Zhulin left for the U.S. shortly after that, and got married there in 2000. I don't see how a divorce with Morozov, marriage and divorce with Kostomarov and marriage with Zhulin all could happen in such a brief period of time. So yes, I believe her when she says she's never been married to Roman. More so, b/c in 1999 / 2000 Kostomarov skated with Anna Semenovich.
I didn't say anything about the alleged fakeness of her marriage with Morozov simply b/c god only knows.
Between 1996 and 1998 Navka skated with Morozov for Belarus. They represented Belarus in 1998 Olys.
Wiki says "She was briefly married to Nikolai Morozov, so she could obtain citizenship for Belarus".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tatiana_Navka
It can't be true, it has to be Morozov who needed a Belarusian citizenship at the time.
Navka and Zhulin left for the U.S. shortly after that, and got married there in 2000. I don't see how a divorce with Morozov, marriage and divorce with Kostomarov and marriage with Zhulin all could happen in such a brief period of time. So yes, I believe her when she says she's never been married to Roman. More so, b/c in 1999 / 2000 Kostomarov skated with Anna Semenovich.
I didn't say anything about the alleged fakeness of her marriage with Morozov simply b/c god only knows.
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