Jump hype or soap opera: what can make the general public of the U.S. fall in love with figure skating again?

[4everchan]

I think it's fair for USA fans to question skating popularity considering it was at a one point much bigger there. I would imagine that the sport is about the same in Canada but perhaps even more popular now after the Canadian Golden age circa 2010/2018. But it is still niche like every sport not called hockey

 

[Diana Delafield]

I think it's fair for USA fans to question skating popularity considering it was at a crown point much bigger there. I would imagine that the sport is about the same in Canada but perhaps even more popular now after the Canadian Golden age circa 2010/2018. But it is still niche like every sport not called hockey

Look at the success at a world level just this past week in Canadian speedskating and women's curling. I watched the gold medal Canada-Switzerland game for curling, but only because it happened to be on when I was noodling around on the computer. Our alpine skiers have been doing well, too, but does the whole nation watch? And yet hockey is The Big Sport, even though it hasn't changed all that much since my uncle played pro hockey back in the 1960s and 70s. A few rule changes, and a lot more safety equipment. But nothing like the advances in technique in figure skating.

I don't think trumpeting another revolution or two in jumps is going to bring sports fans flocking to their TV screens or into the arenas. The athletes do the same sort of stunts in snowboarding, or freestyle skiing. The general public watches those more advanced feats every four years in the winter Olympics and says, "Wow!" But they aren't then converted into permanent fans. Skating acquired more headlines and more "fans" when Tonya Harding added sensational soap-opera storylines and a whiff of crime to the sport, and the interest lingered for quite a while, but that generation of skaters and fans moved on and interest waned. I'd hate to think that was what was needed to grab the public's attention again.

 

[Magill]

There are popular and quite economically sound sports that do perfectly well without this or that of the 'big' nations, even the US....

Soccer, for starters
Probably the most popular sport globally, completely irrelevant in US, and not caring one inch about it.,..

 

[TallyT]

Check the sub-forums here on GS for artistic roller skating and rhythmic gymnastics for confirmation of that. There's also synchro swimming (or whatever they call themselves these days -- I only watch it in the Olympics), acrobatic gymnastics, dancesport (athletic ballroom dance with lifts etc), circus sports like trapeze...... All of them have competitive circuits, all are expensive for their participants, and each has a small but intense fan following. But mainstream? None of them, yet they survive in their own little bubbles.

And on a bigger scale, sports like cricket, rugby and table tennis (they do have support in bigger richer countries but not as far as I can see the US). Then again, cricket and rugby at least have pretty much moved off free to air here and many people watch them at the pub or club. Which may or may not help their staying power....

There is for obvious reasons almost no figure skating fandom here (and yes, I am still sulking about the 4CC we were promised) but swimming has always been a staple, just a couple of decades ago even total non-followers like me knew all their names and feats. Now... they really aren't news, except for the bounce (as with fs) during the Olympics.

 

[Mathman]

Yes this is part of it. Another part is that in the U.S. certain people have an apoplexy about male figure skaters and want to cancel the sport. It doesn’t fit into a traditional view of gender roles and makes them uncomfortable.

I think, though, that the times, they are a-changing. Women's basketball has suddenly become cool and popular in the United States. Is it because a white straight star came along (Caitlin Clark) or because fans have suddenly begun to appreciate smash-mouth in female athletics as well as male. In tennis, for instance, the age of the pretty girl in a short skirt is long gone, replaced by the hundred forty mile an hour serve.

 

[Mathman]

Swimming has always been a staple, just a couple of decades ago even total non-followers like me knew all their names and feats. Now... they really aren't news, except for the bounce (as with fs) during the Olympics.

In the U.S. the golden age of the Olympic swimmer was the 1930s. Win the Olympic Gold Medal and you got to play Tarzan in the movies and make a fortune. Johnny (Janos) Weissmuller -- he was Hungarian like Arnold Schwarzenegger, but tried to pretend he was from Chicago) -- appeared in 12 Tarzan movies and 8 Jungle Jim movies, diving into the waters of the Congo and out-swimming the crocodiles. Next was Buster Crabbe (quite a handsome dude) who not only took over the Tarzan franchise but also played comic book space heroes Flash Gordon and Buck Rogers .

Even 1924 Olympians Glenn Morris and Eleanor Helms cashed in with Tarzan's Revenge

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/98/Tarzan%27s_Revenge_%28movie_poster%29.jpg

Eleanor Holms, by the way, was expelled from the 1936 Olympics (she was defending Olympic champion) for drinking champagne on the boat ride from the U.S. to Europe. She got more publicity from the scandal than she ever had for her swimming, and went on to brief success as a singer. (She was already a wealthy socialite anyway. She lived to 91.)

In Tarzan's Revenge, her character as the ape-mans main squeeze was named Eleanor -- I goes Tarzan was divorced from his first wife Jane by then.

By the way Holm's successor as an American swimming star was Esther Williams. Williams was projected for the 1940 Olympics, but the event was not held because of World War II. She joined up with a professional; swimming exhibition team called the Aquacade and took over the leading role when Holms steppedded away from the show. MGM movie studios was looking for a glamorous female athlete to use in movies in competition with Sonja Henie. Williams went on to star in a dozen or more Water extravaganza movies featuring lavish synchronized swimming and diving routines. She was the "Million Dollar Mermaid."

 

[el henry]

Soccer, for starters
Probably the most popular sport globally, completely irrelevant in US, and not caring one inch about it.,..

And most US fans couldn't care less how popular soccer is or is not elsewhere, so both fans live together in peaceful co-existence. (Or at least men's soccer. Women's soccer attracts a larger following at the Olys. I can name some women's soccer players. I could not name one men's player ...isn't there some guy from Argentina who is really good? See now I sound like the people who think Johnny Weir won a gold medal. )

Although in terms of doing well economically, the NFL is the most profitable league and makes the most worldwide. 20.5 billion in US dollars. Twenty *billion*.

I would be thrilled if figure skating worldwide could generate five percent of the NFL's income. Thrilled. Like Jason Andrew and Donovan tie for Olympic gold thrilled.

Oh well....

 

[4everchan]

Look at the success at a world level just this past week in Canadian speedskating and women's curling. I watched the gold medal Canada-Switzerland game for curling, but only because it happened to be on when I was noodling around on the computer

you noodle around the computer late... that game was at 3am my time... so most likely midnight your time... the short track speed skating was absolutely wonderful last week.... medals in each event.. 6 gold out of 9 events... if that happened at the OG that would be amazing.. but it will not... for one, an American superstar was out with a minor concussion and the Koreans will make sure to shine when it counts... talking of which short track is Korea's national sport...

i'd say that it's pretty popular in quebec too... and I would say that the short track stars are better known than most figure skaters... except Joannie Rochette but that's about it... (talking about Quebec only)

. Our alpine skiers have been doing well, too, but does the whole nation watch?

a couple medals only.. not so well i'd say... we used to be better... you are probably old enough (sorry from reading your posts and from your own admission) to have known the crazy canucks... golden age of canadian downhill... at this point, yes, there are a couple medals here and there but not enough to fill a case.

And yet hockey is The Big Sport, even though it hasn't changed all that much since my uncle played pro hockey back in the 1960s and 70s. A few rule changes, and a lot more safety equipment. But nothing like the advances in technique in figure skating.

hockey has changed a lot in terms of MONEY..... my father was playing semi-pro in a league that nowadays would have meant a decent living for him but back then, they didn't get a penny... so that's a big change... MONEY requires MONEY and attracts MONEY...

one of the issues with figure skating, and nobody seems to have mentioned it : it's too bloody expensive for families.... hockey, soccer, basketball... even if it gets expensive at the elite level, there is a chance of being drafted even in a lower league and earn some money back... and it can be done as a hobby with friends, in the alley or at the school gym for not much... people play hockey everywhere in quebec... even in the streets... moving the nets when cars show up...

but the skates, the ice time, the coaching, the costumes... this is way too much money for people unless they are very serious about it, have ties with the sport or just have money to spare... so that's why the sport will not develop.. .it's too expensive..

the ONLY way i could see it develop to reach out more people is if Syncrho got bigger and reached the olympics. Still, it's expensive but it's not like 1 in a million will make the games when for instance 16 skaters make the team... Of course, it's also cheaper as everything is shared, the ice time, the coaching... (well not the costumes but they probably get a bargain since the dresses are identical) etc

I don't think trumpeting another revolution or two in jumps is going to bring sports fans flocking to their TV screens or into the arenas.

It will not. Honestly, most people don't know the difference between a double and a quad... even some fans on this specialized forum are not always able to tell... (I have called jumps wrong before too... but at least, I have never skated so there's that)

The athletes do the same sort of stunts in snowboarding, or freestyle skiing. The general public watches those more advanced feats every four years in the winter Olympics and says, "Wow!" But they aren't then converted into permanent fans.

No but in the sport of moguls, we do have Canadian stars better known than our figure skating stars... the sport is just more fun to watch for most and easier to understand... less scandals and judging controversies... funny enough, acrobatic ski was 3 disciplines before... Aerials, Moguls and Ballet... Ballet is the one that resembles the most figure skating. It was nixed pretty quickly from the program and the other two made the olympics as "regular" sports.

Skating acquired more headlines and more "fans" when Tonya Harding added sensational soap-opera storylines and a whiff of crime to the sport, and the interest lingered for quite a while, but that generation of skaters and fans moved on and interest waned. I'd hate to think that was what was needed to grab the public's attention again.

I used to watch skating before Tonya too... the pro tour was strong... there were stars from the recent past like Denise Bielmann, the Brians, Katarina Witt, many of the Russians who were making these pro competitions super fun to watch.... I am not sure the sport needed Tonya or the Salt Lake City scandal.. if anything, the sport needed neither and perhaps may be healthier in the USA today... I have a hard time remembering who won the games when Tonya participated... i do remember do that she ruined it for my beloved Josée Chouinard with her stupid shenanigans laces story.... gosh.. that's the last thing the sport needed...

I think the public reacted at first and watched but then, they left because they watched for the wrong reasons... gossip and drama.... and not skating.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Re gymnastics and the difference Simone has made.....remembering......she had a season, an Olympics where AMERICANS condemned her for "wimping out" and who thought she should give back every medal she won. Yeah, that did happen. They may think they're educated but those who criticized her were totally clueless. We are so lucky she decided to return. I wouldn't have. I am a former gymnastics judge, coach, choreographer and judged at a relatively high level - an international meet, Big 10 championships and one of the floor exercises I choregraphed won a major championship. I've attended every gymnastics Olympic Trials since 2000. We were lucky to live in the time of Simone but there is (and probably always will be) so much ignorance in the audience and this same standard applies to skating. The audience couldn't tell you what jump requires takeoff from which leg or even one jump from another yet they pick pick pick skaters apart. So..I wouldn't rely on their expertise and thirst for more dangerous jumps with more rotations. That's a losing battle. Bring back the beauty!

I can assure the people who thought Simone Biles was wimping out when she took time for mental health have never achieved nor will they ever achieve anything significant in their lives.... and have certainly never excelled at any sport, let alone one as demanding as gymnastics (arguably the most demanding of any sport). And I can also confidently guess who they voted for in the last election. Somebody was on point when they said, "US general public is proudly flying the flag of unsophisticated values and tastes under glorious leadership. Figure skating doesn't fit in the roughnecks' life." I will say though, that it isn't the general public - just that trashy half of the country. They'll want Amber to win because she's American, but the moment you tell them she's proudly out, they'll completely ignore the talent - and of course come down on her if she ever loses. US Figure skating isn't loved by America because half of America would by default never love it - let alone publicly admit they love it.

 

[gmyers]

^ Brian Boitano actually skated to "What would Brian Boitano Do? once as a pro. They asked him, "But Brian, don't you know that South Park is making fun pf you?

Boitano replied, "I'm just happy that they think I am important enough to make fun of."

As for Yagudin, he was by far the most charismatic and popular men's skater of his era. I would say that he was the first international skating star of the Internet era. Interestingly, he was especially fawned over by Russian/Soviet ex-patriots living in other countries around the world. I think that it is significant that he won 4 world championships, three Europeans, and an Olympic gold medal, but never a Russian National Championship. His popularity eclipsed Michelle Kwan everywhere except in the United States.

As for the "Racing" program, I once saw an interview where they asked some skaters, "what would you be doing if you couldn't be a figure skater.?" Yagudin's answer was, "Race Car Driver."

(Yuka Sato said that she always wanted to be a circus performer -- "and I guess I am!")

Yes I had to do some research into yagudin “troubles” at Russian nationals!! He won one short program once and then was third in the free skate 96 or 97. He didn’t even go for 2002. They went from kulik to plushenko but there was an opening! Did he really have a bad program that dropped him from 1st to 3rd one year?

 

[TontoK]

The figure skating fanbase is too gentile to tolerate the types of antics that would catapult the sport into the larger American mainstream.

Skating interviews are the most boring exercises. They all say the same thing, a sting of meaningless platitudes and bland observations about the importance of "the process." God forbid anyone stray from the playbook, lest we face a shortage of smelling salts.

In the very rare instances when a skater shows personality or an honest opinion, the gatekeepers rush in to shut that down.

If, for example, Ilia and Yuma and Adam got into a war of words... talking smack about each other... that would stir things up and generate interest in the broader public, but figure skating internet would melt down.

Personally, I don't mind the sedate approach that is generally accepted practice, because all I care about is on ice performance. Then again, it's not my job to generate interest in the sport.

 

[Mathman]

And most US fans couldn't care less how popular soccer is or is not elsewhere, so both fans live together in peaceful co-existence. (Or at least men's soccer. Women's soccer attracts a larger following at the Olys. I can name some women's soccer players. I could not name one men's player ...

I think the main reason that soccer is considered a girl's sport in the U.S. goes back to the Title IX act of congress in 1972. Schools and colleges were suddenly required to provide girls with equal opportunity to play sports or risk losing federal funding. [Anecdote: A parallel push in academics occurred about the same time. The University where I worked at then had one female mathematician on a de[artmenatal faculty of about fifty. This was below the national average. We hired a second and then we were at 4%, which was above the national average. and this we sidestepped the threat of losing grant money.)

Anyway, soccer was chosen across the country as a girl's sport that could be offered cheaply, requiring little more than an empty field and a ball), and the U.S. "soccer mom" cliche was born -- the mother with a station wagon or minivan who volunteered to drive the girls to soccer practice every day. A quarter of a century later the national effort paid off as U.S.women's teams started winning Championships. By 1998 Mia Hamm was going back and forth with Michelle Kwan in winning "most popular female athlete" awards.

As to the attitude,"I like what I like and I don't give a rat's patootie about whatever it is you like," I have wondered if figure skating might go the same way. Russia and the ISU could decide that neither needs the other -- goodbye and good riddance.

 

[TontoK]

Yes I had to do some research into yagudin “troubles” at Russian nationals!! He won one short program once and then was third in the free skate 96 or 97. He didn’t even go for 2002. They went from kulik to plushenko but there was an opening! Did he really have a bad program that dropped him from 1st to 3rd one year?

The old school Soviets had no problem dumping an athlete. The year after the Protopopovs won their second Olympic gold, they finished 2nd in the Soviet championships. The next year - 4th. The next year - 6th. Contrast that with US Nationals, where they use Notre Dame's flying buttresses to prop up favorites.

 

[Mathman]

If, for example, Ilia and Yuma and Adam got into a war of words... talking smack about each other... that would stir things up and generate interest in the broader public...

I hope they don't. I have never found it interesting to hear athletes telling each other,Your Mama's Ugly.

 

[TontoK]

I hope they don't. I have never found it interesting to hear athletes telling each other,Your Mama's Ugly.

A little WWE energy might spark things up a bit. LOL

If your job was to generate interest in the sport... and I've already said that mine isn't, and I concede yours isn't either... if Yuma posted a video about how he was coming to Ilia's house in Boston and planned on beating him on American ice... do you think that would get things worked up?

But, as I said... the fanbase would never tolerate that. Instead, we'll have interviews about how they all respect each other, and hope to do their best, and everyone is such good friends. And we loyal and dwindling few will give a little golf clap because they've done and said what they are supposed to.

 

[Mathman]

I can assure the people who thought Simone Biles was wimping out when she took time for mental health have never achieved nor will they ever achieve anything significant in their lives....

While I don't have any way of knowing what posters to Internet chat sites have ever achieved in their lives, stoill I think that every competitive athlete knows that sometimes you just can't get your mind and body on the same page. As for the "general" U.S. public, my impression is that there has always been a continued outpouring of empathy for Simone Biles, not to mention awe for her jaw-dropping talent talent as a gymnast. There will always be a certain number of loudmouths and fools to ignore.

 

[Mathman]

If your job was to generate interest in the sport... and I've already said that mine isn't, and I concede yours isn't either... if Yuma posted a video about how he was coming to Ilia's house in Boston and planned on beating him on American ice... do you think that would get things worked up?

I think my problem is that I never had any team spirit. I remember in high school the footnall coach would get up at a pep rally and shout, North Central High is the best school in town! Everyone would cheer. And I remember sitting there thinking, huh? In what possible sense are we the best school in town? Do we have rage best students? We have some good ones and some bad like every other school in town. Do we have the best teachers? Some good, some bad.

Do we have the best football team? Heck no, we're in last place.

 

[Arigato]

You would not see any kind of intro like this today. And it's what's missing from the sport.

 

[4everchan]

^^^ oh please.. the Russian fluff drama pieces.. I doubt this is what the USA needs to grow their fan base..

 

[TT_Fin]

Is FS popular any more in other countries than Korea, Russia and Japan? Maybe Japan also loosing fans after big stars retirements?

I think it is worldwide and same problems. Mostly who come to see events are skaters and their friends and family members. The biggest group non-realated to skating is middle aged women, who maybe get their daughters and husbands with to just keep company. I will mirror the problem to my own country, because I think it is quite similar in US as worldwide There are several issues I have a list, these is not in any special order:

1. Lack of marketing. How much does the US fed market events? Our local does not much, I would not have known about GP here without this forum or following fed's own site. If The marketing is targeted only to fans FS already has, there will no be new ones.
2. Scoring system. We ordinary people who do not understand so much about difficult have it difficulties to find out why a skater who falls can win. We don't know which is difficult entry or we do not get that some ugly moves are in fact there because of level hunting.
3. There is much skating and people get bored watching same programs again and again. I know it will be difficult to have several programs and I don't know what would be solution
4. Same skaters winning all the time. if the sport lacks excitement and you already in advantage who will win or one federation dominates everything, people get bored. Some people may say answer is that others should be better and practice more, but it depends on federation how much money and time you can put to skating and training conditions vary a lot between countries. People are not so interested to see more and more difficult programs, they want to see clean programs from their own country's skaters and want them to medal. I know some members hardly disagree, but remember I am one of those ordinary people. I like to watch small competitions because there are skaters you do not see in big ones and there is also more tension. I am not from USA but I think people feel quite similar there as well in other countries where skating has lost it's public interest.
5. There is so much sport to watch today that people choose other sport
6. Expensive tickets to big events. To small ones are often not expensive, but look at the first sentence at point 1.
7. Television rights issues
8. And as I think some members already mentioned, some kind of attraction is needed - when we go back to that lack of marketing again.
9. Media's indifference towards skating. Look again at point 1 first sentence. This maybe is the biggest issue. Media is interested only when scandals happen, but I think none of us does not wish this. So maybe the main point is, what should federations, as well as in US in other countries too, to do get the media's interest? When GP was here in my country, the person who made evening post's TV schedule had not even idea what competition it was. Is this so bad in US?