2025 World Championships Pairs Free Skate

[aroundtheworld778]

The judges are supposed to be judging only what happens during THAT event.

aw cmon. we know they don't do that. skaters have reputations. and KO somehow got a really solid one despite their inability to perform throw jumps. look at their record of triple throw jumps with positive GOE on Skating Scores. it's dismal.

 

[discodisco]

I just finished watching Pairs.

It was disappointing to me. First, I couldn’t watch LIVE because I was working. So, I waited and waited for them to post the event video. As I was waiting, they posted a video with Deanna and Max placing 5th…. Damn it! That spoiled the result for me. Then, I refresh 30 minutes and then a video posted with JPN winning gold. Damn it!! I didn’t want to know who won

So, I watched all 20 Pairs knowing who placed 5th and 1st.

The Canadian Pair teams all screwed their sequences. Unusual for them. Kelly always usually nails her 3S. Then, I was furious when Trentt didn’t go for the 2A 2A sequence. I think he stopped hoping Lia would stop and when she went for 2A, it was too late. Then, Trentt with the salchow pop infuriated me. I was so sad knowing they lost the third spot.

Then, Deanna came out and when I saw her smiling during warm up, I thought that can’t be good. Then, she screwed up the sequence horribly…. They could have placed 4th. Sigh…

The Italians deserved bronze. It was a good performance and I’m happy for them. I knew all four teams in the last group would beat the Canadians since I knew they finished 5th, so I was rooting for the Italians to beat the team from Georgia and they did.

After the Germans skated, even with the last mistake, I thought, how did the Germans not win. When they made the last mistake on the lift, I did think, this may have cost them the gold medal and it turns out, it did.

I watched the Japanese team relaxed knowing they won. I was hoping they would clean skate and win by a lot. When they made three minor mistakes, I thought, how the hell did they win. But, they do have harder jumps and more speed than the Germans and a lead from SP.

After my disappointment with our Canadian skates, I guess I can be happy that the Canadian camp won gold medal. Meagan is a remarkable coach even though she plays a smaller role. When the Japanese went for 2A 2A sequence and harder jumps, that has Meagan influence all over it.

Edit: Also, to those who mentioned M/G from Russia. That pairs team has been the best pairs team in the world for three straight years. They consistently score over 230 domestically and would do so, internationally, as well. However, I’m happy to report that JPN and GER pairs teams AVG from EUR/4CC and Worlds is higher than the Nationals/Cup 2nd and 3rd best teams from Russia. The world’s pair event has improved a lot. I’m looking forward to more GER and JPN showdowns. I like both teams equally.

The Japanese do not have harder jumps. They have essentially the exact same jumps. The Japanese do have harder throws. The Russian teams would destroy the current teams.

I think I would have had the Germans by a bit, but I understand it that the last lift cost them. But the Japanese were messy, messy, messy. The thing that got them the win was basically their tremendous speed, which was far superior to anyone else. I like them a lot, but this was a very uninspiring event. The Americans getting a positive GOE on their side by side triple toes when she clearly 2 footed it was absolutely ridiculous. Not a 135+ skate....

 

[Tutto]

The Japanese do not have harder jumps. They have essentially the exact same jumps. The Japanese do have harder throws. The Russian teams would destroy the current teams.

I think I would have had the Germans by a bit, but I understand it that the last lift cost them. But the Japanese were messy, messy, messy. The thing that got them the win was basically their tremendous speed, which was far superior to anyone else. I like them a lot, but this was a very uninspiring event. The Americans getting a positive GOE on their side by side triple toes when she clearly 2 footed it was absolutely ridiculous. Not a 135+ skate....

In real time, yes, but if you check the protocols E/M's 3T got -0.30 GOE. And their elements were quite underscored in SP because of early starting order

 

[discodisco]

In real time, yes, but if you check the protocols E/M's 3T got -0.30 GOE. And their elements were quite underscored in SP because of early starting order

Okay, I didn't realize it had changed in the final grade of execution. That's more fair

 

[Ruthypegs]

I have a crush on Michel Tsiba (I'm bi btw.)

Anyone else crushing on some figure skater present in Boston?

Paul (Poirier and Ayer)

 

[Ares]

Oh I see when reading the last few pages of the thread that I'm not the only one who thinks ''wuzrobbed'' here regarding Haase/Volodin.

 

[cailuj365]

It is interesting to me a team that had a minor issue on the dismount of a lift can be scolded for not keeping their focus to the end over a team with multiple major two foot errors and a visible <.

Yeah, I agree. After M/K's third visible error, I thought for sure H/V would be winning. It wasn't until I saw how close the tech box was and that Johnny Weir said that he thought M/K had it that I thought there could be a different outcome. But if you're not going in as a favorite or going to be held up, you cannot give anything away. Due to their higher base value, errors on lifts are also more costly than the errors on SBS jumps or throws.

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

Hase/ Volodin are the only pair who skated two clean performances. They were brilliant in the fp, and they won that segment but it wasn't enough for them to overtake Miura/Kihara overall. It should have been enough. I am disappointed that H/V did not win. But they seem happy, and likely eager to let this result fuel them to greater heights next season. H/V losing by percentage points indicates to me that a deliberate choice was made to re-anoint M/K as champions. That was obvious by the huge sp score M/K received, too, coupled with how H/V were placed behind C/M in third by a close margin in the sp. The judges also never reduce GOE on M/K's triple twist due to Miura's tendency to make contact with Kihara's shoulder on dismount.

I'm happy for how well Alisa/Misha skated. It was redemptive for them. I hope Ellie can figure out her jump landing issues. She and Danny are too good for her to continue struggling on throws. As it is, Ellie/Danny have the best choreographed programs and best styled costumes in the pairs field. Plus, a key choreographic move they do is being emulated by other teams. The move in question was first choreographed by Guillaume Cizeron for James/Cipres 2018 - 2019.

Many pairs teams today also emulate placing at least two of their lifts at the end of free programs (a dramatic strategy first employed by John Zimmerman for Haven/ Brandon's revival of Lion King, choreo by Renee Roca). I have also noticed a few teams emulating Alisa/Misha's lovely dismount move from their well-executed outside edge death spiral.

It's great that 3 U.S. pairs teams can deservedly be sent to the Olympics next year.

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

Yeah, I agree. After M/K's third visible error, I thought for sure H/V would be winning. It wasn't until I saw how close the tech box was and that Johnny Weir said that he thought M/K had it that I thought there could be a different outcome. But if you're not going in as a favorite or going to be held up, you cannot give anything away. Due to their higher base value, errors on lifts are also more costly than the errors on SBS jumps or throws.

But that coming down slightly early by H/V on the final lift should not have made the difference in M/K being given the win. Not with M/K's mistakes in the fp and with H/V's otherwise brilliant fp coupled with their clean sp performance.

Also, @discodisco, if speed is considered so valuable and important (as it should be), then Conti/Macii should not be given so much high GOE and high PCS!

@cailuj365, it is news to me that H/V were not going into Worlds as favorites. They won GPF and Euros.

 

[ladyjane]

I have a crush on Michel Tsiba (I'm bi btw.)

Anyone else crushing on some figure skater present in Boston?

Not the worst guy to have a crush on. He's a really friendly and nice guy. I met him and Daria once at some Dutch event, and he was really very kind to everybody who wished to have a chat. And...he shared his chocolates!.

 

[cailuj365]

But that coming down slightly early by H/V on the final lift should not have made the difference in M/K being given the win. Not with M/K's mistakes in the fp and with H/V's otherwise brilliant fp coupled with their clean sp performance.

Also, @discodisco, if speed is considered so valuable and important (as it should be), then Conti/Macii should not be given so much high GOE and high PCS!

@cailuj365, it is news to me that H/V were not going into Worlds as favorites. They won GPF and Euros.

I don't disagree with your overall assessment. I was calling it for H/V halfway through M/K's skate, but I understood why they lost in the end. H/V's SP was clean, but that program feels average. Their SP choreography doesn't always match the musical phrasing, especially in the first half, and they were rightly outshone by M/K and C/M for this segment. And despite their GPF and Euros wins, I would have said that H/V were at best a co-favorite with M/K. They don't have the PCS advantage. I think H/V will come back stronger next year, and this was a good lesson. Hopefully, they come back with better material. I'm rooting for them at the Olympics.

 

[rinkside_user]

Hubbell and Moir in the k&c as coaches - feels like a sequel to a movie where the action hero protagonists are retired with kids.

 

[ramurphy2005]

Holy *****

Danny's foot injury was worse than I thought. Jackie bumped into him, and Danny has to have surgery for a fractured metatarsal on his right foot.

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

I don't disagree with your overall assessment. I was calling it for H/V halfway through M/K's skate, but I understood why they lost in the end. H/V's SP was clean, but that program feels average. Their SP choreography doesn't always match the musical phrasing, especially in the first half, and they were rightly outshone by M/K and C/M for this segment. And despite their GPF and Euros wins, I would have said that H/V were at best a co-favorite with M/K. They don't have the PCS advantage. I think H/V will come back stronger next year, and this was a good lesson. Hopefully, they come back with better material. I'm rooting for them at the Olympics.

To each their own views, likes and dislikes. For sure M/K are well-regarded and they have Japan politics behind them. Plus, Kihara is apparently much healthier now. Earlier this season, M/K were were hit-and-miss in terms of going clean. M/K have always had a high, nice-looking 3-twist. Yet, their continual contact on the twist dismount consistently gets overlooked, ignored and over-rewarded with high GOE. Because of M/K's skill, their political backing and general popularity with fans, M/K are always a favorite at any competition they enter. But they are NOT the best pairs team simply because they get high scores for speed, knee-bend and great SS when they go clean.

Good for M/K that they think they are the best team. It's so important for athletes to believe in themselves. But I have noticed M/K being a bit sour-looking and sulky when they haven't won. OTOH, Minerva Hase is generally joyous in her expressions and gracious toward all of her rivals. It is a skill to manage control of facial expressions and to be sportsmanlike even when you aren't feeling it inside. Of course, since M/K won this time, they were mostly smiling and happier during the victory ceremony. Sara Conti is usually bubbly, too, and happy to be on the podium. But C/M were clearly hoping to maintain a slim margin for second over H/V.

For me, it is questionable that C/M were placed ahead of H/V in the sp in the first place. You mention that M/K have an advantage due to speed. Well, C/M are quite slow, despite having nice SS, which is a conundrum. Usually with good SS, skaters have better than average speed. C/M obviously lack speed, range, and transitions. H/V may not be as fast as M/K either, but H/V are at least somewhat faster than C/M. Plus, Minerva Hase has lovely distance, control, and flow on her jump landings, moreso than Sara Conti. Minerva also has better lift positions and H/V cover more ice on their lifts than C/M.

Hase/Volodin are a classic looking team. Their music and program concepts this season are very good. They are a new team in only their second season, yet still competing for top of the podium! That's not something to sneeze at and be dismissive of. IMO, H/V are doing very well in exploring music and material to help define their partnership and to build a better connection between themselves and the audience. They have a concept behind their music that they are trying to express. The choices H/V have made this season are a step in the right direction for them. Their lovely partnership (like all of their competitors) is a work-in-progress of trying to build on strengths and improve weaknesses.

Meanwhile, C/M made sentimental, so-so music choices that do not stand out as unique or compelling, despite Sara's overall effervescence and dramatic facial expressions. But at least, C/M are trying and they have improved in some areas with the huge backing they receive from their federation. M/K, despite choosing more interesting music this season, are not doing anything with their music in a way that enhances or expresses who they are together as partners. At least, H/V have made conscious choices for their music, and developed concepts that they have worked hard to express in their performances. M/K just skate fast over the music (trying to go clean) while relying on their rep with the judges, their popularity with fans, and their fed's political clout to stay on top. With the Olympics coming up, there is a lot of tension among federations knowing that the pairs podium is not as wide open now with one Russian team being allowed back next year in Milan. Clearly, Japan fed is trying to position their only top competitive team, while Italy is intent upon pushing for average-skilled, limited range Conti/Macii to be on the Olympic podium in their home country.

I understand the feeling of liking some teams over others. I personally respect all the teams, but of course some teams resonate with me more deeply than others. I am learning to distinguish different teams' strengths and weaknesses and to understand what it is that makes me enjoy certain teams over others. Performance quality and material are big factors, in addition to skill, execution, and connection between each other and the audience, or lack thereof.

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

Holy *****

Danny's foot injury was worse than I thought. Jackie bumped into him, and Danny has to have surgery for a fractured metatarsal on his right foot.

So that explains Danny's issue on that jump landing. Danny is usually clean on his jumps. I just thought he had been checking to see if Ellie was around on her rotations and lost his own form. Wow, Jackie must be feeling bad about inadvertently injuring a skater.

I'm so glad it wasn't worse to the point of Danny being unable to skate! Wishing Danny fast healing and coming back strong over the off-season. ❤

For those who thought the judges didn't take off for Danny's two-footing, they absolutely did in real time, too, if you were checking the score box and not just listening to the commentators. Chris and Kirsten did not pick up on the landing error by Danny nor on the judges' negative GOE, until the slo-mo replay.

 

[ramurphy2005]

So that explains Danny's issue on that jump landing. Danny is usually clean on his jumps. I just thought he had been checking to see if Ellie was around on her rotations and lost his own form. Wow, Jackie must be feeling bad about inadvertently injuring a skater.

I'm so glad it wasn't worse to the point of Danny being unable to skate! Wishing Danny fast healing and coming back strong over the off-season. ❤

For those who thought the judges didn't take off for Danny's two-footing, they absolutely did in real time, too, if you were checking the score box and not just listening to the commentators. Chris and Kirsten did not pick up on the landing error by Danny nor on the judges' negative GOE, until the slo-mo replay.

I realize that I phrased that awkwardly. Danny injured his foot off ice prior to Worlds.

I meant that Jackie bumped into him and was told that info by Danny.

 

[skylark]

I think their magical moment was US Nationals. They skated better there IMHO.
Consistency with jumps seems to escape everyone but here is something I'd like to clarify.

If Trennt and Lia mess up a big sequence, i am like... ok.. strange... they can land these 4/5 in competition.
Deanna and Max are not the greatest jumpers but I have seen them, and the whole skating community, have seen them land these jumps maybe 2/3 of the times in competition, including on the biggest stage last year.
R/R : her triple toe is 9/10 q or <
Efimova : her rotation is almost never complete and she most likely will secure the jump with the free foot..

ETC..

So to me, there are three types of mistakes

Fluke or bad luck
Mental

These two types : they can actually perform these jumps.

The third type is more like : cannot perform the element but squeezes it by because they have to do so... (happens on the twist for some teams like the Australian team who have stellar jumps)
I would out Efimova Mitrofanov in this third type of jumping category.

In my opinion, world medalists in pairs should be able to do it all, most of the times.

I understand and appreciate your explanation. I'm not trying to persuade you of anything. I only want to assert that there are different perspectives and we all have valid points to make. And we don't all evaluate or appreciate figure skating programs on the elements only, or even mostly.

Your countrywoman, KMT, was one of the people who called Alisa and Misha's worlds FS magical.

Also, KMT, Chris H., Jean-Luc Baker, and Jackie Wong all offered the opinion that Alisa and Misha are under-rated and underscored. There may be more. If I were a TV/internet commentator, I'd say it there too!

p.s. Katia Gordeeva struggled on her jumping elements (although she, like Alisa, excelled on the throw jump landings). .... but that's why, I've read, the USSR skating officials transferred Katia from singles to pairs. And the rest is gorgeous figure skating history! On the other hand, I read several years ago in an interview with Alisa, that she'd said RusFed didn't renew her contract or something, her interpretation was that they didn't believe in her. That's when she moved to Germany and skated with Ruben Blommaert.

Also, Jean-Luc said in a practice session that he was amazed when he'd see two experienced skaters pair with a new partner and suddenly he'd be filled with wonder at how much better they were, how they could create and do things he'd never imagined before that either of them could do.

Now my long post gives you just PART of an overview of why Alisa and Misha are now my favorite pair.

 

[aroundtheworld778]

On the other hand, I read several years ago in an interview with Alisa, that she'd said RusFed didn't renew her contract or something, her interpretation was that they didn't believe in her. That's when she moved to Germany and skated with Ruben Blommaert.

What interview was that? I've heard a different story in other interviews with her.

 

[skylark]

What interview was that? I've heard a different story in other interviews with her.

Thanks for that link, the interview was very interesting. I don't actually see any conflict between what the story says and the quote from Alisa that I mentioned.

Together with a partner, she won the Universiade. .... Then there was a long break and moving to Oberstdorf.

It seems to me that this story doesn't address or contradict the quote that I recall. It's possible she just decided not to mention it going forward, which I wouldn't blame her for. But definitely, people shouldn't take my word for it; I have a good memory but I could be mistaken.

It was several years ago and I didn't save the reference.

(Maybe I should delete the above part of my post)

 

[cailuj365]

To each their own views, likes and dislikes.

You wrote out a very nice, detailed, and well-reasoned post, but I kind of want to assure you that H/V are my favorites as well! I also love their classic look on the ice. Efimova/Mitrofanov are another favorite pairs team of mine for similar reasons (clean lines, strong pairs elements). Similar to Volosozhar/Trankov, the last pairs team that I really adored, I love it when skaters who were mediocre in their previous pairs find new partners and just find that it-factor together.

I also wish H/V had won here and thought they did, and I'm not at all saying that M/K should have such a large PCS advantage, just that they do... so I understood why they lost. IMO, M/K really should have only led the SP by 1-2 points.

I still don't think H/V's SP was a great program though. I understand the reasons to try different styles, but I'd like to see them return to the emotional ballad style that suits Minerva more naturally for the SP next year.