New skates from months ago still causing pain & heel slip issues

[bagelonice]

Hi there, this is my first post on this forum - nice to meet you all

I upgraded a couple months ago from beginner Riedells to Jackson Premieres (AA narrow heel, regular toe box) on a fitter’s recommendation. I recognize I did overboot slightly - the fitter recommended Premieres over Debuts based on my height, skating frequency, and progression rate. I'm 5'7", 140 lbs, skate 6–10 hrs/week, working on salchow, toe loops, and loops. I have Greek-style feet with a narrower heel.

From the start, I noticed foot pain and heel slippage - about 1–2 cm vertically - especially during jump takeoffs/landings. My fitter (A&G in the Bay Area) said some slippage was normal, but my coach and others said otherwise. I had them compress the heel area, but that didn’t seem to help.

I’ve tried bunga pads, which hasn’t made a noticeable difference. I’ve tried different socks, and surprisingly had the most success with skating barefoot (adds grippiness? sorry lol). I’ve tried yellow Superfeet with no luck.

The fitters suggested giving the boots some time, as they might’ve been too stiff for me to fully tighten yet. After ~60 hours in these boots, I can bend well, there are creases in the tongue, and I’m lacing tightly, but the heel still slips and I still have persistent foot pain. The first 15 minutes of every session are especially painful - I often have to stop and take the boots off. I can usually push through 1–2 hours after that, still with discomfort. The pain is all over my foot, especially in the ball/arch area, it almost feels like a long night out in uncomfortable heels.

At this point, I’m wondering:

• Is it too late to go back to the fitter? (Last time the fitters mentioned the last resort solution would be to add padding into the back of the boot, which I’m hesitant to do due to the additional bulkiness / weight it may add.)
• Would they be able to let me return / exchange for a different brand after months of wear?
• Are Jacksons just not right for my feet?
• Or am I just being too picky and expecting a perfect fit when what I'm experiencing is actually the norm?

Thanks in advance - really appreciate any thoughts or suggestions.

 

[tstop4me]

From the start, I noticed foot pain and heel slippage - about 1–2 cm vertically - especially during jump takeoffs/landings. My fitter (A&G in the Bay Area) said some slippage was normal, but my coach and others said otherwise. I had them compress the heel area, but that didn’t seem to help.

1 - 2 cm is off by an order of magnitude. Perhaps 1 - 2 mm movement due to compression of the lining, but not actual slippage (sliding of the heel of your foot across the surface of the lining of the heel pocket of the boot).

In another thread, I recently wrote:

A snug fitting heel pocket is essential. At the same time, the heel pocket is the area of the boot least amenable to modification. In particular, if the heel pocket is too loose, don't get that boot (model & size).

Your fitter should never have sold you those boots in the first place. The heel should fit snugly as-is. In the store you can test the boots prior to having the blades mounted: Lace up, and stand up. Have the fitter firmly grasp the outsole near the toebox with one hand and the heel with the other hand. Have the fitter hold the boot firmly against the floor. The heel of your foot should not feel painfully pinched. Now try (with moderate force) to wiggle the heel of your foot side-to-side and up-down. As I mentioned above, there may be slight movement of the heel of your foot due to compression of the lining, but no actual sliding of the heel of your foot across the surface of the lining.

Compressing a heel pocket that is too large doesn't actually reshape the heel pocket properly. It just creates a couple of temporary local pinch points.

At this point, I’m wondering:

• Is it too late to go back to the fitter? (Last time the fitters mentioned the last resort solution would be to add padding into the back of the boot, which I’m hesitant to do due to the additional bulkiness / weight it may add.)
• Would they be able to let me return / exchange for a different brand after months of wear?
• Are Jacksons just not right for my feet?
• Or am I just being too picky and expecting a perfect fit when what I'm experiencing is actually the norm?

* It doesn't hurt to go back to the fitter and ask for a remedy. I know a skater who had a similar scenario, just continued to have problems. His fitter credited him the money and fitted him with a different brand. This is not typical, but there are fitters who own up to their mistakes and make it right.

* Adding extra padding to the back of the boot won't add any significant weight. But it's also likely not going to work reliably. In some instances, you can also add extra padding to a portion of the back of the tongue to help seat your foot into the heel pocket of your boot better. But your degree of slippage is likely too high for this to help.

* Not enough info to determine whether Jackson's are right for you. You might need a semi-custom or full custom split width if the width of your heel is substantially narrower than the width of the ball (with even a narrower heel width of the boot than what you have now). But you might also need a boot with a different geometry of the heel pocket.

* What you are experiencing is not the norm. Though I have come across some coaches who say it is (but these are stoic coaches who insist that you can just skate through any problem, because they have; these are coaches from poorer countries who had to make do with whatever they could get).

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

Hi there, this is my first post on this forum - nice to meet you all

I upgraded a couple months ago from beginner Riedells to Jackson Premieres (AA narrow heel, regular toe box) on a fitter’s recommendation. I recognize I did overboot slightly - the fitter recommended Premieres over Debuts based on my height, skating frequency, and progression rate. I'm 5'7", 140 lbs, skate 6–10 hrs/week, working on salchow, toe loops, and loops. I have Greek-style feet with a narrower heel.

From the start, I noticed foot pain and heel slippage - about 1–2 cm vertically - especially during jump takeoffs/landings. My fitter (A&G in the Bay Area) said some slippage was normal, but my coach and others said otherwise. I had them compress the heel area, but that didn’t seem to help.

I’ve tried bunga pads, which hasn’t made a noticeable difference. I’ve tried different socks, and surprisingly had the most success with skating barefoot (adds grippiness? sorry lol). I’ve tried yellow Superfeet with no luck.

The fitters suggested giving the boots some time, as they might’ve been too stiff for me to fully tighten yet. After ~60 hours in these boots, I can bend well, there are creases in the tongue, and I’m lacing tightly, but the heel still slips and I still have persistent foot pain. The first 15 minutes of every session are especially painful - I often have to stop and take the boots off. I can usually push through 1–2 hours after that, still with discomfort. The pain is all over my foot, especially in the ball/arch area, it almost feels like a long night out in uncomfortable heels.

At this point, I’m wondering:

• Is it too late to go back to the fitter? (Last time the fitters mentioned the last resort solution would be to add padding into the back of the boot, which I’m hesitant to do due to the additional bulkiness / weight it may add.)
• Would they be able to let me return / exchange for a different brand after months of wear?
• Are Jacksons just not right for my feet?
• Or am I just being too picky and expecting a perfect fit when what I'm experiencing is actually the norm?

Thanks in advance - really appreciate any thoughts or suggestions.

You definitely have the wrong boots for you. When you stated what your foot type is my brain screams no to Jackson unless it's custom or semi-custom. I can suggest boots and brands that might work better with your foot but need to know one thing: What are you arches like? Very high/high/normal/low/flat?

 

[bagelonice]

You definitely have the wrong boots for you. When you stated what your foot type is my brain screams no to Jackson unless it's custom or semi-custom. I can suggest boots and brands that might work better with your foot but need to know one thing: What are you arches like? Very high/high/normal/low/flat?

Based on my own assessment, I believe I have normal to normal-high arches.

I guess these Jacksons are semi-custom in that they ordered it in a narrower heel, but having issues nonetheless. Would very much appreciate your suggestion of boots & brands based on this info - thanks in advance!

 

[bagelonice]

1 - 2 cm is off by an order of magnitude. Perhaps 1 - 2 mm movement due to compression of the lining, but not actual slippage (sliding of the heel of your foot across the surface of the lining of the heel pocket of the boot).

In another thread, I recently wrote:



Your fitter should never have sold you those boots in the first place. The heel should fit snugly as-is. In the store you can test the boots prior to having the blades mounted: Lace up, and stand up. Have the fitter firmly grasp the outsole near the toebox with one hand and the heel with the other hand. Have the fitter hold the boot firmly against the floor. The heel of your foot should not feel painfully pinched. Now try (with moderate force) to wiggle the heel of your foot side-to-side and up-down. As I mentioned above, there may be slight movement of the heel of your foot due to compression of the lining, but no actual sliding of the heel of your foot across the surface of the lining.

Compressing a heel pocket that is too large doesn't actually reshape the heel pocket properly. It just creates a couple of temporary local pinch points.




* It doesn't hurt to go back to the fitter and ask for a remedy. I know a skater who had a similar scenario, just continued to have problems. His fitter credited him the money and fitted him with a different brand. This is not typical, but there are fitters who own up to their mistakes and make it right.

* Adding extra padding to the back of the boot won't add any significant weight. But it's also likely not going to work reliably. In some instances, you can also add extra padding to a portion of the back of the tongue to help seat your foot into the heel pocket of your boot better. But your degree of slippage is likely too high for this to help.

* Not enough info to determine whether Jackson's are right for you. You might need a semi-custom or full custom split width if the width of your heel is substantially narrower than the width of the ball (with even a narrower heel width of the boot than what you have now). But you might also need a boot with a different geometry of the heel pocket.

* What you are experiencing is not the norm. Though I have come across some coaches who say it is (but these are stoic coaches who insist that you can just skate through any problem, because they have; these are coaches from poorer countries who had to make do with whatever they could get).

Thank you for the detailed response! I evaluated more intentionally today, and 1-2 cm may have been an exaggeration; I would say the slippage is closer to 0.5-1 cm. I'm curious if you think the foot pain is due to the heel slippage / fitting of the boot, or if that's more just a process of breaking in the boots.

I will try the heel test with my partner holding down the shoe and see if I can get a better idea of fit. If I still experience a lot of movement in this test, as well as ongoing issues while skating, I think I will go back to the fitter and see what can be done from here. I'm worried they'll insist it's the best fit based on measurements and that the heel slippage is normal, but we'll see!

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

Based on my own assessment, I believe I have normal to normal-high arches.

I guess these Jacksons are semi-custom in that they ordered it in a narrower heel, but having issues nonetheless. Would very much appreciate your suggestion of boots & brands based on this info - thanks in advance!

Look at Risport RF3, the RF line of Risport is great for Greek feet. I have Greek shaped feet and have worn Risport for years. You could also look at Graf Richmond Special.

What blade do you currently have?

 

[bagelonice]

Look at Risport RF3, the RF line of Risport is great for Greek feet. I have Greek shaped feet and have worn Risport for years. You could also look at Graf Richmond Special.

What blade do you currently have?

That's super helpful to know. I was warned by the fitters that Risport and Edea have the same issue of being too narrow at the toe box and could cause bunions to form (?). I haven't heard of Graf before, so I'll have to do some more research there!

Currently skating on Jackson Legacy 7s - any thoughts or recommendations?

 

[tstop4me]

I'm curious if you think the foot pain is due to the heel slippage / fitting of the boot, or if that's more just a process of breaking in the boots.

You need an in-person diagnosis with a competent and experienced fitter ... and a lot more detail. E.g., is the foot pain generalized, or limited to specific portions of the foot under specific scenarios? Are there specific pinch points in your boots? Did you have an initial heat molding? Do you need arch supports? How are the boots conforming to your feet after ~60 hrs break-in? Did you break them in properly to begin with? Do you need a follow-up heat molding? Are you lacing them properly? ... Lots of factors to consider.

 

[Query]

E.g., is the foot pain generalized, or limited to specific portions of the foot under specific scenarios?

This was partially answered by

The pain is all over my foot, especially in the ball/arch area, it almost feels like a long night out in uncomfortable heels.

A heel cup and/or other heel insert - some are available cheaply without prescriptions - might possibly fix the heel slippage, though .5-1 cm is a lot.

But you might need to have a better understanding of what is causing the pain, as tstop4me discussed. E.g., if the heel lift is bending your foot and/or raising your heel too much for comfort, a heel cup that forced your heel to raise all the time would not be a great idea. But if you are unsure, you can easily experiment - they often aren't expensive. But I admit that I am much more inclined to experiment and self-treat than most of the people here - they often think you should see experts immediately.

If your fitter can't help with identifying the pain source (do people here know if A&G are usually good, and would recommend someone else in that area?), you could try another fitter, or a podiatrist recommended by other skaters, and see if they can find a cause & solution.

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

That's super helpful to know. I was warned by the fitters that Risport and Edea have the same issue of being too narrow at the toe box and could cause bunions to form (?). I haven't heard of Graf before, so I'll have to do some more research there!

Currently skating on Jackson Legacy 7s - any thoughts or recommendations?

I can understand the Risport explanation you got if it had to do with the Royal line which is like Edea and too narrow. But the RF line, which I suggested is not that way, hence why I with my Greek shaped foot fit RF line Risport.

As far as the blades: JW Coronation Ace or MK Pro (traditional ones--no need for Revs or Lites).

 

[velvetfoxglove]

From the start, I noticed foot pain and heel slippage - about 1–2 cm vertically - especially during jump takeoffs/landings. My fitter (A&G in the Bay Area) said some slippage was normal, but my coach and others said otherwise. I had them compress the heel area, but that didn’t seem to help.

I’ve tried bunga pads, which hasn’t made a noticeable difference. I’ve tried different socks, and surprisingly had the most success with skating barefoot (adds grippiness? sorry lol). I’ve tried yellow Superfeet with no luck.

I had the same issue with heel slippage in a couple of different Jackson boots. Bunga pads, heel cups, waxed laces, having my pro shop pinch the heel...nothing worked. I eventually realized the Jackson instep height was the problem. Instep height and foot volume aren't duscussed as often but are important factors in boot fit. Jackson has a medium-high instep, from what I've heard and experienced. I made the switch to Risport and it ended up being an excellent fit. Others have already given good advice on other factors to account for. Hopefully you've since found a boot that works for you
(And hopefully this helps someone else scouring old threads years later)

 

[khi]

I had the same issue with heel slippage in a couple of different Jackson boots. Bunga pads, heel cups, waxed laces, having my pro shop pinch the heel...nothing worked. I eventually realized the Jackson instep height was the problem. Instep height and foot volume aren't duscussed as often but are important factors in boot fit. Jackson has a medium-high instep, from what I've heard and experienced. I made the switch to Risport and it ended up being an excellent fit. Others have already given good advice on other factors to account for. Hopefully you've since found a boot that works for you
(And hopefully this helps someone else scouring old threads years later)

I seem to be scouring threads looking for advice on heel slip, only months later rather than years later, but disappointing to hear that nothing helped at all (and I'm already in risport )! Out of interest what width Jackson did you go from, to what width Risport?

My shop has tried tightening the heel and it helped one foot but not the other (just trying them in the shop), heel lifts did nothing at first and made it worse after they added more lift after the heat tightening, next thing they suggested is taking up some space with something called "barefoot booties" but they didn't have any in my size so I'll go back in a week or so when they do... i have my fingers crossed , but is that similar to the heel cups and bunga pads?

 

[bostonskaterguy86]

I seem to be scouring threads looking for advice on heel slip, only months later rather than years later, but disappointing to hear that nothing helped at all (and I'm already in risport )! Out of interest what width Jackson did you go from, to what width Risport?

My shop has tried tightening the heel and it helped one foot but not the other (just trying them in the shop), heel lifts did nothing at first and made it worse after they added more lift after the heat tightening, next thing they suggested is taking up some space with something called "barefoot booties" but they didn't have any in my size so I'll go back in a week or so when they do... i have my fingers crossed , but is that similar to the heel cups and bunga pads?

Barefoot booties (or at least the versions of them I'm familiar with!) are sort of like Bunga pads, but a good bit thinner. They're basically ankle-length compression socks without the heel or the toe. They provide light padding (though not as much as traditional Bungas) and protection from chafing. I could see them being helpful in reducing minimal/minor heel slip - they don't take up very much extra space in the boot, but sometimes that's enough!

Like @velvetfoxglove I also switched from Jacksons to Risports - I went from a men's 7.5W to a 265C. I have wide forefeet but pretty narrow heels and ankles (the "pizza foot"), so I ended up with quite a bit of heel slip in the wide Jacksons (they fit my forefeet almost perfectly out of the box - just needed a punchout when I developed a bunion on my left foot). I managed it just fine with Bungas for a few years, but ultimately I had to change boots when the padding wore down and my heels started slipping again. I was surprised at how well the C-width Risports fit out of the box - just needed heat molding and a bunion punchout, and I've never had any issues with heel slip in them. I thought for sure I was going to need to special-order D-width boots!