Is it time to get rid of the kiss and cry?

[el henry]

Like my friend @TontoK, I (and many others) remember the days of skaters waiting by the boards and microphones shoved in the faces of skaters who may or may not want to be interviewed. The KnC is preferable.

I do not believe in having young to mid teens in a KnC however. What is the point? So they can toughen up? Rough tough strong macho macha whatever. I walked this earth long enough that I know what strong is and isn't, and it's got jack to do with waiting for bad scores. Not interested.

I love watching a happy KnC and I just don't watch the sad ones. Then again, I don't watch disaster skates either if I know about them ahead of time. Life's too short.

 

[noskates]

I think it's just a part of the sport. Every skater competing knows it's something they do after their skate.

 

[NanaPat]

I wouldn't want to eliminate the Kiss'n'Cry entirely, but there should be limits. It's awkward when they cut to it too soon, and there is a long wait for the marks. If for some reason the replays are short and the marks are long coming, they should switch to views of the next skater warming up or crowd shots until the marks are almost ready.

I also think skaters should be able to skip it if they wish. If it was optional and/or they could leave early, they could do so gracefully without "storming off". In case the skater leave before their marks are ready, they should NOT show shots of the empty K'n'C.

I think now they're required to stay until the next skater is announced; you'll occasionally see someone stand up after their marks and be pulled back down or warned to sit back down by their partner or coach.

I am definitely not a fan of microphones being shoved in skaters faces right after their skate. There should be no "mixed zone" for juniors or it should be optional. Actually, it should be optional for seniors as well. Don't make upset skaters run a papparazi-like gauntlet. It's cruel and unnecessary. Give them an express bypass lane, and don't allow "reporters" to shout questions at those who choose the bypass. TMZ is not a good role model.

 

[Mathman]

I have seen people try and turn a sport comprised of athletes into a children's TV show called Romper Room...

That takes me way back to the beginnings of fan-based figure skating forms in the late 1990s. In the main forum certain rules of courtesy were expected and enforced, but there was a special private subform (often called the Romper Room or something of the sort) where, for an extra fee, sports fans could tee off on skaters that they wanted to ridicule uncensored. (Or make "inappropriate" comments about them "You're ugly and yo' mama dresses you funny.")

 

[ladyjane]

I am definitely not a fan of microphones being shoved in skaters faces right after their skate. There should be no "mixed zone" for juniors or it should be optional. Actually, it should be optional for seniors as well. Don't make upset skaters run a papparazi-like gauntlet. It's cruel and unnecessary. Give them an express bypass lane, and don't allow "reporters" to shout questions at those who choose the bypass. TMZ is not a good role model.

This. Totally agree. Wouldn't anyone say something stupid when that happens? And let's keep Kevin Amoz happiness (thank you for that example @Arigato) and comparable things in.

 

[TallyT]

Two points from someone whose collection of videos includes some of the best and the absolute most agonising KnC moments (I am a fan of Anna Pogorilaya, say no more. And Yuzu's breakdown after COC 14 is only marginally less traumatic to watch than the whole damn skate) and who loves watching the juniors, right now rather more than the seniors...

Young or old, sitting waiting for your scores - even if you know they are going to be bad and your face hurts from keep a smile or neutral look - is probably no more and possibly less horrible than being out there alone on the ice trying to keep going and keep performing an upbeat piece when you can feel yourself melting down and four minutes feels like forever. Someone brought up a lovely Kevin A moment, but I can't be the only one who literally cannot watch some of his skates, way more than the following KnCs, because watching them actually hurts more.

It's a judged sport in a media-happy privacy-not-happy time. There are not that many sports where so much of the marking is after the fact and the athlete has to wait around so long for their scores/outcome, and KnC footage is popular. While I can see points on both sides TPTB are not going to take away something that gives them those blessed klicks (this is not me approving of TPTB's position, just accepting it as reality.)

As I said, I think they could move the camera further away especially when it's juniors, or get the cameraman to use some discretion (but then I think back to said COC and the closeups of Yuzu's bandaged bloodied face and broken sobbing - he'd been through hell in the performance - and I doubt discretion is ever going to be on show). At least we don't seem to get such extreme closeups these days or at least not that I can think of, though I would also like them to turn off the microphone so they and their coaches can talk in peace.

 

[TallyT]

PS - making it optional is probably not going to help because those who choose not to would probably get slammed online for piking it. Sports fans are appallingly fond of that charge.

 

[NanaPat]

While we're talking about this Kiss'n'Cry, can we talk those areas where the current top 3 are made to wait in full view until they are knocked out of the top 3? It's not so bad if the waiting skaters have done better than expected and fully expect to be surpassed, but can be excruciating for some skaters at some times.

This doesn't even have the excuse of "we've always done it this way" as it is a fairly new phenomenon.

 

[4everchan]

Me, too. The whole idea that children should be trained to provide "entertainment" for adults, like performing monkeys, and then subject them to blistering criticism if they fail to entertain us to our satisfaction... yes, there is something unsettling about that.

what do you make of Mozart then ? Children have been taking center stage for centuries. It may be tough for some, but others love the attention and it fuels them to work harder.

I find this topic a bit weird simply because if you are willing to skate 4 minutes by yourself on the ice, knowing that it's going to be live streamed and then, knowing that people also will be in the audience, then the KnC is nothing.

An athlete will be much more upset (generally speaking) from missing a triple lutz than from having to be filmed while taking a breath, untying their skates and hugging their coach... until the scores are shown.

Other sports have different ways to do it. The issue with figure skating is that they named it "kiss and cry". It does automatically involve drama and keep it in the culture of the sport. If you look at it as a bench to sit down and wind down while getting your scores, then it takes a whole new meaning.

 

[4everchan]

While we're talking about this Kiss'n'Cry, can we talk those areas where the current top 3 are made to wait in full view until they are knocked out of the top 3? It's not so bad if the waiting skaters have done better than expected and fully expect to be surpassed, but can be excruciating for some skaters at some times.

This doesn't even have the excuse of "we've always done it this way" as it is a fairly new phenomenon.

but it's common in many sports... even in diving or acrobatic skiing.

I am not sure really there is a problem with any of it.. I loved seeing Adam in Montreal waiting for ever to get his medal

But truly, we can blame society for any of these histrionics. TV broadcasters want some good stuff to show people who want to see good stuff...

Finally, the time it takes to get scores in figure skating, without the kiss n cry, what would we do ? Play sudoku ?

 

[NanaPat]

Finally, the time it takes to get scores in figure skating, without the kiss n cry, what would we do ? Play sudoku ?

Do replays and commentary, which currently takes up most of the waiting time? Show the next skater warming up / scouring the ice for obstructions? Show cute kids in the crowd? Show banners/flags in support of the skaters? Show long shots of the crowd? Show the commentators faces? Alternate through all of the above to keep from getting stale? Just no kiss-cam!

 

[Mathematician]

Sorry but there is definitely some weird pathology when it comes to judging the emotional constitution of 12 year old girls who are already put on display like a circus act, expecting them to "toughen up" and really do anything at all whatever extra just for you live on TV. No, its really not that exciting to see the little kids twiddling their thumbs in diabolical embarrassment under the silent disappointed judgement of their entire fanbase, coaching staff and countrymen while you sit at home and watch with one hand deep in a bag of cheetos almost definitely doing absolutely nothing of importance or moral consequence with your life at all, just saying.

Bro, its like, who cares bro, the K&K is totally like not a big deal, yo, like who even cares they can totally handle it, bro but I really, really care and feel a really strong moral conviction that it should be NECESSARY FOR EVERYONE!! But yea dude its like just a sport though or whatever bro so who cares.

Totally self defeating and logically bankrupt position. The exaggerated austerity and cut-throat moral contrarianism of internet couch potatoes. Have these people even tried to be great or present themselves in front of others before, like, ever? Definitely some compensating going on with these online characters. Especially when it comes to these communities where the athletes in question are often young children.

The moral destitution of these teenage girls, I mean, the audacity to show your face when you're happy but not when you're sad. Sorry sweetie it says right there in the contract its both or neither, I wrote it myself.

It should clearly be optional. Let them have fun after their skate if they want or not. Simple.

 

[Mathman]

While we're talking about this Kiss'n'Cry, can we talk those areas where the current top 3 are made to wait in full view until they are knocked out of the top 3?

I agree with that. I always feel bad for the unfortunate girl or boy sitting up there looking like a stooge whose only role is to be knocked out as soon as the next skater performs.

 

[Mathematician]

I find this topic a bit weird simply because if you are willing to skate 4 minutes by yourself on the ice, knowing that it's going to be live streamed and then, knowing that people also will be in the audience, then the KnC is nothing.

We can theorize on why they should or shouldnt care about something, but if its already admittedly inconsequential then why do we care if they want to just skip it and head to the locker room if they arent feeling well about it? It should be officially standardized as optional so it isnt seen as shameful and low class to walk off in total emotional distress in front of millions like Sasha.

Completing your obligated duty you signed up for in skating the program is honourable, and the adrenaline/muscle memory is keeping you going on auto-pilot while you focus on each coming element not having any time to fully process complete failure. Sitting in silence for 2 minutes letting the situation seep into your heart while everyone watches is obviously completely different. Why add salt to the wound? Who actually likes seeing the skater stare at his shoes for 2 mins while we talk about how sad we are for them? If they want to walk off why not let them? Why do people care so much one way or the other? I'm not talking about you, BTW, but just responding to the point that its not a big deal. If thats true then it should be optional because if some young kid sees it as a big deal they shouldn't be forced into anything. And it is pretty much implicitly forced now or else it is seen as a tantrum.

 

[Mathman]

.No, its really not that exciting to see the little kids twiddling their thumbs in diabolical embarrassment under the silent disappointed judgement of their entire fanbase...

I agree. And to tell the truth, as a spectator it is not really all that exciting or interesting to me to see Kevin Aymoz overcome by tears of joy or Tara Lipinski steiking out her jubilation. I mean, if they're happy, I'm happy, but I like it better when an athlete projects the attitude, "Of course I just scored a touchdown. That's what I do. I don't have to do a silly dance in the end zone afterward."

 

[Mathematician]

I agree. And to tell the truth, as a spectastor it is not really all that exciting or interesting to me to see Kevin Aymoz overcome by tears of joy or Tara Lipinski steiking out her jubilation. I mean, if they're happy, I'm happy, but I like it better when an athlete projects the attitude, "Of course I just scored a touchdown. That's what I do. I don't have to do a silly dance in the end zone afterward."

I agree, but for the positive K&Ks, at least its no harm done, so let them have fun. You can always just look away. It should be an option, just never forced. Its embarrassing and feels like putting young kids on display even more than they already are in this sport.

 

[4everchan]

We can theorize on why they should or shouldnt care about something, but if its already admittedly inconsequential then why do we care if they want to just skip it and head to the locker room if they arent feeling well about it? It should be officially standardized as optional so it isnt seen as shameful and low class to walk off in total emotional distress in front of millions like Sasha.

Sasha's meltdown was backstage, wasn't it ?

Completing your obligated duty you signed up for in skating the program is honourable, and the adrenaline/muscle memory is keeping you going on auto-pilot while you focus on each coming element not having any time to fully process complete failure. Sitting in silence for 2 minutes letting the situation seep into your heart while everyone watches is obviously completely different.

I believe it's also part of something that is trained. Do I like bowing in front of an audience ? No. I do it and if it bugged me the first few times, I just thought it was weird, I do it automatically now.

Why add salt to the wound?

Why are we making this as it's always wound ?
Look at this wonderful KnC moment, and winner's couch while at it :

Juniors


Seniors


Gosh, I am glad for these moments

Who actually likes seeing the skater stare at his shoes for 2 mins while we talk about how sad we are for them? If they want to walk off why not let them? Why do people care so much one way or the other? I'm not talking about you, BTW, but just responding to the point that its not a big deal. If thats true then it should be optional because if some young kid sees it as a big deal they shouldn't be forced into anything. And it is pretty much implicitly forced now or else it is seen as a tantrum.

 

[Mathematician]

Why are we making this as it's always wound ? Look at this wonderful KnC moment, and winner's couch while at it :

I definitely wasnt doing that though. I was making it clear it should be optional so we can have those good moments for the skaters and fans who enjoy it. It just should be optional because a lot of them clearly dont when they're sad and there is no reason to force them into it. Right now it isnt really optional. Even at least the implicit expectation from everyone sets the standard, it is seen as highly unusual and disrespectful for skaters to walk off. I'm agreeing the whole is not a big deal which means it shouldn't be a big deal if some skaters are feeling really poorly and dont want to spend the extra time in front of everyone feeling embarrassed. Adding salt to the wound is forcing everyone to do K&K, not letting it just be an option to attend.

 

[Arigato]

The three guys in the green room don't look unhappy to me. Give the men some credit, they're not fragile flowers.

 

[Arigato]

Oh, the "trauma" of winning.