Is it time to get rid of the kiss and cry?

[Skating91]

Or at the very least make it completely optional?

What purpose does it serve a skater, especially after a disastrous performance where they are crying or on the verge of tears.

There is no justification for it, even more so in junior competition. To make someone sit there in front of a camera after a bad performance is a form of ritual humiliation. Obviously there are people out there who derive enjoyment from seeing someone upset and forced to sit in front of a camera otherwise the ISU wouldn't do it.

At the very least it needs to be optional.

Thoughts?

 

[Skater Boy]

Or at the very least make it completely optional?

What purpose does it serve a skater, especially after a disastrous performance where they are crying or on the verge of tears.

There is no justification for it, even more so in junior competition. To make someone sit there in front of a camera after a bad performance is a form of ritual humiliation. Obviously there are people out there who derive enjoyment from seeing someone upset and forced to sit in front of a camera otherwise the ISU wouldn't do it.

At the very least it needs to be optional.

Thoughts?

Sadly with the rise of reality tv people love the live reactions and drama. It maybe morbid at times but tv ratings and viewers want to see real reactions and that includes the bad.

 

[surimi]

I thought skaters were already free to leave the KnC if they felt like it? Personally I see no issues with that. The camera can just follow the next skater warming up on the ice instead, and show the scores as they are announced.

 

[Arigato]

If anyone is so fragile they can't even sit for their scores, perhaps they should rethink being in the sport.

 

[Karoltyna]

It's pro sport. If something went wrong, everybody already saw it on ice. This isn't really different from other sports. In judo or boxing you sometimes know the winner right away and sometimes the judges need time, the cameras will show it all. K&C makes skaters more human - I didn't like Gubanova, but at last Worlds when she first tried to be brave and then broke, I kind of warmed up to her. Still not a fan but I see her much less negative than before.

 

[ladyjane]

I must admit, the joy when a programme went well, is really something - sometimes tears, sometimes dancing, sometimes the biggest hugs ever -, the anger when you're underscored (or at least feel like you are) the way coaches act after a programme, the way certain skaters can show what's their thing (from Yuzu's Winnie the Poo to Keegan's pictures of his little boy). I love watching those things, the KnC is then one of my favourite places to watch. I get the dislike for watching skaters (especially young ones) who had a bad day and are very unhappy, but I wouldn't want to miss the more positive moments. Sometimes they're just priceless!

 

[TallyT]

Every sport shows the athletes as they get their scores.

While I understand your point (some KnC moments I treasure, some I cut the vid before they happen because they hurt, especially watching the juniors) what do you suggest they full the screen in when waiting for the marks? There's a lull that can't be sped up after all.

 

[Skating91]

I thought skaters were already free to leave the KnC if they felt like it? Personally I see no issues with that. The camera can just follow the next skater warming up on the ice instead, and show the scores as they are announced.

No, they always make sure to stay until the camera switches away. If they or their coach catch themselves leaving too early they will hurriedly sit down again, or make an apology.

 

[TallyT]

I thought skaters were already free to leave the KnC if they felt like it? Personally I see no issues with that. The camera can just follow the next skater warming up on the ice instead, and show the scores as they are announced.

I remember seeing two or three storm off, but is that any better....

 

[Skating91]

Every sport shows the athletes as they get their scores.

While I understand your point (some KnC moments I treasure, some I cut the vid before they happen because they hurt, especially watching the juniors) what do you suggest they full the screen in when waiting for the marks? There's a lull that can't be sped up after all.

Other sports don't force athletes to sit subserviently on a couch with a camera several feet away focused in on their face for anywhere from 30 seconds to 2 minutes while possibly having the worst day of their life.

If a skater chooses to sit in the kiss and cry then all good, but many skaters when upset clearly don't want to be sitting there.

They are obligated to sit in the kiss and cry, therefore this is a form of bullying and humiliation of losing athletes. It's completely unnecessary.

As for doing this to children in the junior competitions -- where the ISU broadcasts this to the world via Youtube no less -- it's deplorable.

What I don't understand, when a skater is clearly upset, why don't they switch to another camera shot of the other skater warming up or the crowd or anything? Why focus in on someone distraught? To publicly embarrass them some more?

The ISU might have some silly rule that they are obligated to stay in the kiss and cry until the camera switches away, but that's no reason why they have to focus in on a distraught person for the maximum amount of time.

A tennis player might lose a match, sit on the chair and put a towel over his or her head if it's the final, or make a quick trip to the bathroom, but they don't force a losing player to sit in a particular chair for several minutes with a camera shoved in front of their face at their most vulnerable and painful moment.

In a lot of sports the athlete would go slap the camera out of someone's hands if shoved it in their face for several minutes after a terrible loss. No-one would do it to an NFL player, MMA fighter, boxer, hockey player, but a 14 year old child having a mental breakdown in the kiss and cry that's fair game as far as the ISU is concerned.

Beijing 2022 there was a lot of criticism about coaches or methods being the reason for Trusova or Valieva's hysteria (those were separate things anyway), but does that mean they had to focus the cameras in on it? Trusova was in a corner trying to get away from the cameras chasing her and all the networks were trying to get a shot of her in hysterics and Valieva too.

A sport can't talk about initiatives to help mental health like calm zones or raising the age limit when they make a spectacle out of crying children.

 

[TontoK]

I don't care one way or another about Kiss and Cry drama. Today's version is somewhere in between in the range of past options on the way they did things. It seems a reasonable balance, although I wouldn't mind if skaters had the option to skip it.

At one time, not THAT long ago, there wasn't a K&C. Skaters just stood by the boards and awaited their scores. There were still cameras, but it didn't seem quite as intrusive. Example: Dorothy Hamill at Innsbrook.

On the other hand, the K&C was once a venue for the highest-paying network to stick a microphone right in the skater's face and chat with them while they were getting their scores. Example: Brian Orser in Calgary.

 

[lariko]

Imo K&C helps skaters who do not want or can't develop their social media to project their personality and add that 'human story' to the competition. It is very hard to break out on tiktok, insta etc and it takes so much time out of people's lives... not to mention, most of these athletes are probably better off never checking the media. Most skaters also can't really employ account managers, and their relatives doing it often leads to pretty bad results. K&C gives material and creates a lot of clips for free, with fans doing the heavy lifting. Any sports' book/movie relies more on the personal character story to create the connection to the audience and raise the stakes of the competition. To follow competitions, most fans require far more than the scores. Lifting the lower age in juniors to 15 from 13 would be better than taking out K&C to make sure positives outweigh negatives. Those who are forewarned are forearmed, and every skater knows they would have to be in that spotlight after the programme. It also helps to avoid worse reactions, imo because they have to get through the acceptance period while in the public eye.

 

[mrrice]

If anyone is so fragile they can't even sit for their scores, perhaps they should rethink being in the sport.

Exactly!! Look, these are athletes and they need to face the music. When they skate great, they love the camera. I remember seeing Elvis have a nightmare skate and he just smiled and said sorry. It's part of the sport.

 

[TallyT]

Look, these are athletes and they need to face the music.

'Face the music' is think that's a bit cold-blooded when the OP was clearly including 13-year-olds just starting their career. These kiddies show more courage than most of us when stepping on ice before an unforgiving camera and (obviously) equally unforgiving fans aka armchair critics all over the world.

I would prefer to keep the KnC but I wouldn't mind the option, especially for the juniors, of moving the camera back so it's not so in their faces.

 

[TontoK]

'Face the music' is think that's a bit cold-blooded when the OP was clearly including 13-year-olds just starting their career. These kiddies show more courage than most of us when stepping on ice before an unforgiving camera and (obviously) equally unforgiving fans aka armchair critics all over the world.

I would prefer to keep the KnC but I wouldn't mind the option, especially for the juniors, of moving the camera back so it's not so in their faces.

Honestly, this is one of the reasons I generally don't watch junior competitions, and I'm glad the age limit for senior competitions is rising.

I know everyone is different, but FOR ME (and, again, not implying this is the case for everyone), there's something unsettling about watching children perform in almost any context in a televised event. And the younger the performer, the more unsettling. And I can acknowledge that I'm not ALWAYS consistent in my views (I really enjoyed seeing Ilia Malinin perform as a young boy)... but we're talking about the larger rule. And those early videos did not include intrusive K&C moments.

I would hate for video of me in my awkward years... physically and emotionally immature... to be captured and pasted all over the internet for eternity.

 

[Mathman]

I know everyone is different, but FOR ME (and, again, not implying this is the case for everyone), there's something unsettling about watching children perform in almost any context in a televised event.

Me, too. The whole idea that children should be trained to provide "entertainment" for adults, like performing monkeys, and then subject them to blistering criticism if they fail to entertain us to our satisfaction... yes, there is something unsettling about that.

 

[Arigato]

Who the hell would want to miss a moment like this? No way, baby! Timestamped. Hit Play.

 

[Jeanie19]

My issue is not the kiss n cry. But once the skater leaves the kiss n cry then it's leave them alone. Trusova was fine in the kiss n cry, she was not allowed privacy after Anna's scores came up. I think that some common courtesy should prevail. Otherwise it is an act of bullying.

 

[TontoK]

Always nice to see a happy skater. But there are plenty of counterexamples that could be made, even with that same skater.

I won't post videos of those, though. But they exist on the internet. Forever. And for an adult, maybe that's ok.

But what is the age of informed consent for having a meltdown K&C video preserved for all time and available to anyone with the perversity to search for it? I think it's an interesting question, and while I don't have the answer, I suspect it should probably be older than 13.

 

[Arigato]

Ask Kevin if he would want to get rid of it and he'd probably ask if people were out of their minds, wondering why they wanted to control his sport to such a ridiculous and toxic degree. In the last week alone, I have seen people try and turn a sport comprised of athletes into a children's TV show called Romper Room - replete with whining about various social topics that have nothing to do with skating.

This is a sport. Stop treating it as if it's something else.