Is it time to get rid of the kiss and cry?

[jersey1302]

If anyone is so fragile they can't even sit for their scores, perhaps they should rethink being in the sport.

I have to agree.. the notion of taking it away is pretty soft.. as a skater my self (granted not national tv.. more just regional live stream lol) I really don’t think the kiss and cry is an issue.. these are pro athletes at a high competitive level. There’s so much time in between skaters judges finish up etc, you almost need to have the kiss and cry. I think taking it away would be completely ridiculous

 

[TontoK]

Is there any judged sport where it's allowed and accepted for athletes to just go to the locker room after they end their performance before they get their score? I can't think of any off the top of my head.

Gymnastics, sort of. I mean they don't go to the locker rooms, but they aren't sitting around on a platform with all eyes on them. They normally sit off the floor and off the camera (for the most part) with their team, right?

 

[Arigato]

Stephen Nedoroscik COMES THROUGH on pommel horse in U.S. bronze medal effort | Paris Olympics

Team USA only needed a solid performance from Stephen Nedoroscik on pommel horse to make the men's gymnastics team podium. He went ahead and knocked it out o...

www.youtube.com

No eyes on Stephen as he gets his scores. Just the entire world. Go Stephen!
On a side note, if anyone has a really good ear, you may recognize the voice of Terry Gannon who also works with Tara and Johnny Weir.

 

[lariko]

But they are forced to be in the kiss and cry against their will. It's really unfair to continue to focus on a child going through emotional distress, with the ISU causing additional embarrassment and humiliation when they could simply cut away to another camera with nothing lost (except for people who enjoy watching people suffer or humiliate themselves), or the skater could simply skip the kiss and cry.

In other sport when someone is hurt they cut away they don't just continue focusing on their face for 60 seconds.

Strange double standards in this sport, where a coach might scold or scowl at a skater (something that happens in any Olympic level or professional sport) and the internet goes into meltdown.

However, when something is proposed as simple as switching camera shots or allowing skaters to skip the kiss and cry if they are suffering emotionally, or maybe not in the best frame of mind not wanting this on the internet forever, then the attitude is 'we can't shelter these children these are the realities of life', 'these children that are crying are a bunch of divas', etc. We have to exacerbate the mental suffering by forcing them to sit there and focusing the camera on them for what must be a humiliating 1-2 minutes. And for what? To teach them some kind of life lesson (a lot of these same people would have a fit if a coach constructively scolded a skater)?

Maybe the sport is just not that interesting to regular sports fans, so they need these gimmicks like the kiss and cry, or having the three leaders sitting in a green room so we can see them feign happiness for their competitor when they get knocked off the podium, or even worse that chair they made Kaori sit in at the world championships while she waited for the inevitable result.

Is it a sport or a variety show?

Actually, when say a soccer-football player is hurt and rolling on the grass, and all their team mates ring them with concerned faces, the cameras zoom right in. I didn't watch any other sport, but lol, I think you are inventing things to prop your save the children argument that is motivated by God knows what. Which is why I am discontinuing reading your cheap pathos from this point on, since I just don't like that brand.

 

[Mathman]

For me, I don't mind the Kiss and Cry. Whatever. You're happy if you performed well, angry, disappointed or sad if you didn't.

What are more awkward are those interviews as the skater comes off the ice where the interviewer sticks a microphone in the skaters's face and says, "So, how did you feel when you screwed up that triple Lutz?" I wish the respondent would say, "I felt the same way that you are going to feel when I punch you in the nose."

 

[snowflake]

I enjoy the K&C and I think it's mostly fine. What I like about it is seeing a bit of the skaters personality and how they communicate with their coaches. And I like to see them waving, making hearts, showing what they got from fans and looking excited. Sending greetings to family and friends. It’s also fun to see their coaches and choreographers. Some I have seen competing themselves and/or are now parents of their students. With a good commentator I get interesting information while the skaters are waiting for their scores.

But they are forced to be in the kiss and cry against their will. It's really unfair to continue to focus on a child going through emotional distress, with the ISU causing additional embarrassment and humiliation when they could simply cut away to another camera with nothing lost (except for people who enjoy watching people suffer or humiliate themselves), or the skater could simply skip the kiss and cry.

THIS though! So easily done to focus on something else in the arena

That’s what they should have done yesterday. Where you could see a girl crying and looking miserable for two long minutes in K&C. WHY??? Luckily she had a warm coach. And nice commentating if she ever watches it.

Humilation of athletes happens in every sport: camera people zooming in as soon as something spectacular happens, someone crashes, passes out, screaming with pain etc. I watch a lot of sports and have seen it again and again.

Drama sells. And well, I suppose for a reason figure skating has become the big drama sport at the olympics.

 

[Mathman]

Speaking of gymnastics, guess what the designated area is officially called where the athletes await their marks? As of 2017, the "Kiss and Cry."

 

[Mathematician]

Parents send their kids to abusive coaches because these coaches have support of feds and this influences the scores. Parents make their kids train until their bodies can't recover properly. Parents go deaf when kids tell them they don't want to do it anymore/with this coach. These are problems of FS, not 5 minutes in K&C.

Thats not fully explanatory though, because why do abusive coaches get the FED money in the first place? Just for being abusive? I dont think parents are looking for judging bonuses... they are looking for athletic results and excellency out of vanity. My grievance is with the parents' and general system's vain exploitation per children being exhibited on social media and such a comparable disposition with production and advertisement. It is intrinsic to the ethos of sport, not some isolated happenings of abusive coaching; thats a symptom, it cannot be the explanation in itself. I think the pageantry comparison is pretty cogent. I dont know how you could fix it. Perhaps junior events should just have recorded performances, no live stream, no interviews, etc... But the "senior" category isn't exactly composed of iron-minded adults either. I guess it is just the general issue of celebritydom and some sort of living iconography so to speak.

"Training until their bodies cant work" is standard per nations which consider sports as a mass propaganda opportunity. Again not an isolated phenomena. It is ingrained especially in ex-soviet countries and China for example. I mean you have federally established programs to overtrain kids en masse and it is just a statistical fact that some of the genetically fortunate will persevere and become unbeatable. It is a pretty utilitarian attitude to your population.

 

[TontoK]

Speaking of gymnastics, guess what the designated area is officially called where the athletes await their marks? As of 2017, the "Kiss and Cry."

Well, that goes to show how much I know. I didn't even know this was a thing in gymnastics.

 

[Karoltyna]

"Training until their bodies cant work" is standard per nations which consider sports as a mass propaganda opportunity. Again not an isolated phenomena. It is ingrained especially in ex-soviet countries and China for example. I mean you have federally established programs to overtrain kids en masse and it is just a statistical fact that some of the genetically fortunate will persevere and become unbeatable. It is a pretty utilitarian attitude to your population.

Yet skaters who have non-abusive coaches also score good. On the other hand, see what recently happened in Latvia, how Stepcenko is now attacked by the parents from her former club who don't want certain coaches to loose influence in the fed and how fed tries to be blind that certain coached rigged the results of domestic competitions. The same goes for all sports that are scored by judges.
I'm from ex-soviet country and have kid in sports. My son is coached by our national team coach, he isn't overtrained and when he changed coaches, I was readdy to pull him from pro track the moment he was too tired and I pay for the training fully. It's not standard, it's just russian and chinese speciality and only because parents are willing to push the kids.
I don't seek for my son to be professional athlete (unless he wants that), so I won't make him do anything more he is willing to do, so I agree, parents push their kids out of vain.

 

[surimi]

Well, that goes to show how much I know. I didn't even know this was a thing in gymnastics.

It's used in rhythmic gymnastics for sure, and it's quite similar to the KnC from figure skating. Occasionally, the gymnast and their coach have to sit there for quite a while due to judging computer systems taking a long time (which we also know from FS), or because one of the previous gymnasts submitted an inquiry (though that's usually dealt with during the next routine, and the gymnast that has just received their scores can go backstage).

I wonder, is KnC used in regular gymnastics as well? I have never seen it, but then, I'm just an occasional watcher, so perhaps someone can shed light on this.

 

[Mathematician]

Yet skaters who have non-abusive coaches also score good.

Yea but those people don't care about good, they care about superhuman. There are some sports in which Russia and China dominate by an enormous margin. Chinese weightlifters are in their own category. They have programs from adolescence to overtrain them and the few who make it until the end will not be beatable.

It's not standard, it's just russian and chinese speciality and only because parents are willing to push the kids.

I said its standard for countries that use international sports as mass propaganda, which it definitely is, and I didnt imply that the standard was good or defensible in any way. Its also based on federal support versus independent corporate support e.g. professional football leagues. Poland is a Western country, they don't need to propagandize sport like Russia and China anymore and Polish skaters/weightlifters will not beat Russian/Chinese ones for that reason.

I don't think its just Russia and China. The Bulgarian training split is infamous for this, probably more than anywhere else. Not sure about others.

The same goes for all sports that are scored by judges.

Yea but TBH I am not as worried about competitive corruption as I am about the abuse and exploitation of young athletes, its a different conversation.

 

[Mathman]

One thing about the Kiss and Cry in figure skating is that although we see skaters in extremes of emotion. I don't think I have ever seen a skater take the opportunity to berate, needle or taunt his or her competitors, or to rant about the evil ISU or the evil judges. Once in a while back in the 6.0 days a skater might make a sour face when a low score popped up, but even that was usually more in good humor than in complaint.

 

[NanaPat]

One thing about the Kiss and Cry in figure skating is that although we see skaters in extremes of emotion. I don't think I have ever seen a skater take the opportunity to berate, needle or taunt his or her competitors, or to rant about the evil ISU or the evil judges. Once in a while back in the 6.0 days a skater might make a sour face when a low score popped up, but even that was usually more in good humor than in complaint.

I did, however, once see a skater berate her partner, apparently for their entire time in the Kiss and Cry. She never sat down, but stood in front of him with her back to the camera. Fortunately that meant we couldn't see any faces (and I couldn't hear her words; either not miked or due to a language barrier). They broke up shortly after that, to no one's surprise.

 

[TallyT]

I did, however, once see a skater berate her partner, apparently for their entire time in the Kiss and Cry. She never sat down, but stood in front of him with her back to the camera. Fortunately that meant we couldn't see any faces (and I couldn't hear her words; either not miked or due to a language barrier). They broke up shortly after that, to no one's surprise.

Fair enough... but as Barbara Fusar-Poli proved, Displeasure With A Partner does not have to be confined to the KnC but can be shared with the whole world from the middle of the rink

 

[formersk8ter]

Come on... taking away the K&C because a small percentage of skaters might have a bad day and be upset?

NO.

And not only is the K&C great for the winners, but it gives non-medalist skaters a chance to relax and say hello to their family and friends. Taking it away would be terrible.

 

[Mathman]

And not only is the K&C great for the winners, but it gives non-medalist skaters a chance to relax and say hello to their family and friends.

That's a good point. Has figure skating suddenly become so angsty that participants don't enjoy it any more?

It seems like back in the day many skaters, win or lose, took delight in making some secret gesture that they had worked out beforehand that meant, "I love you. Grandma."

Often the principal emotion was not, "Oh my god I messed up I'm going yo kill ,myself," but rather relief that the tension has been broken and everybody can relax now.

 

[Arigato]

Come on... taking away the K&C because a small percentage of skaters might have a bad day and be upset?

NO.

And not only is the K&C great for the winners, but it gives non-medalist skaters a chance to relax and say hello to their family and friends. Taking it away would be terrible.

I enjoy watching Matteo Rizzo say hello to everyone on the planet in Italian, including his mother.

 

[Karoltyna]

Fair enough... but as Barbara Fusar-Poli proved, Displeasure With A Partner does not have to be confined to the KnC but can be shared with the whole world from the middle of the rink

C'mon, this was legendary, saw it live, was sure she will punch him or try to bite his arteria and their costumes seemed even more ridiculous due to tension between them. But does this mean that these few seconds after bad skate when skaters are flooded with emotions shouldn't be broadcasted? Hell no. People have emotions, we shouldn't pretend that there are only positive ones because some skaters can't cope. This is not jab at Babs, after all she remained composed and didn't hurt Maurizio there and then, this isn't jab at all, people are entitled to emotions. On the other hand there is Sara Conti who is always amazing, no matter how close she was to falling to the ice from Niccolo's raised hands. I wouldn't want to loose these moments.

BTW some skaters show emotions still skating their programes, we still don't stop broadcasting. We don't shut streams after 3rd fall or because skater stumbled again, whole world (let's be realistic, measly part of the world) still sees the skater skating until the music stops. This isn't any different than emotions in K&C, maybe even worse because they know they lost but have to skate till the end.

 

[TallyT]

C'mon, this was legendary, saw it live, was sure she will punch him or try to bite his arteria and their costumes seemed even more ridiculous due to tension between them. But does this mean that these few seconds after bad skate when skaters are flooded with emotions shouldn't be broadcasted? Hell no. People have emotions, we shouldn't pretend that there are only positive ones because some skaters can't cope.

Oh, I thoroughly applaud the fact that we are able to share that Special Moment(TM) with them.