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- Sep 1, 2020
2025 Skate to Milano Pairs Short Program
- Thread starter dorispulaski
- Start date
I guess we'll find out. Gamez/Korovin also have the same coaches as Akopova/ Rahkmanin and Nagaoka/ Moriguchi. Just sayin' 
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- Jan 17, 2022
Not sure about the Japanese team, but the French team did get a low level and GOE on the twist (3Tw2 +0.31 vs. 3Tw3 +0.33 for Shin/Nagy) because of the slight touch on the catch.
And they didn't get high GOE on either element (only +0.24 on both, and only FCCoSp2V).
In terms of choreo and skating skills in combination, the Chinese and Japanese were the best today. The complexity alone of the transitions certainly set them apart. Presentation, we can argue about, but for example, Shin/Nagy noticeably deflated after the death spiral mistake and Gamez/Korovin will always be hampered by the absolute lack of involvement by Mr. Korovin, he barely even looks at her if he doesn't have to.The PCS, as usual, are out of whack. Valesi/ Bidar were quite lovely aesthetically, but you wouldn't know it from the low-ball pcs. Shin/ Nagy were also low-balled on pcs, as were Gamez/ Korovin. Somehow, the Japanese and Chinese teams are apparently pcs mavens.Nope. Technically, and in terms of skating skills, those teams have good qualities, but their choreo and presentation is not superior to a number of other teams (including the Kovalevs, who are looking good to qualify a spot for France). It's just that if a team's tech, and/ or power and speed are good, they tend to get a boost, especially if they rep a country that has political leverage and/ or rep status in relevant disciplines.
If they are the only team doing it right now, then it is their trademark at the current moment in front of the current audience. Stellato/Deudek are not the first ones to do an assisted backflip, and Chinese pairs aren't the only ones doing killer outside death spirals, but for fans, these are still elements that come close to a personal or collective "trademark" (like leg kicks being Dani G.'s trademark, despite certainly not being the first or only one to put them into their choreo.)Mark Hanretty is very wrong in saying that the neck leg wrap swing is Nagaoka/ Moriguchi's 'trademark'. No. The Kerrs originally choreographed that move for Danny O'Shea & Chelsea Liu about 4 years ago. Ever since it has been copied by a number of pairs and ice dance teams. Just because N/M may use it often does NOT make it their trademark. N/M do not even have the nicest looking version of this leg wrap move.
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- Sep 22, 2024
Judge No. 9, Ms. Hailan JIANG, I see the dirty game you play.
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- Jan 17, 2022
Though I'm also seeing a few other judges who'll go home with a reprimand and a head shorter. Some of these scoes are so all over the place, lol.
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- Sep 22, 2024
What can we expect if ISU allows to assign a judge previously suspended for a year after a series of events with recognised national bias (Ms. Chigogidze from Georgia).
Though I'm also seeing a few other judges who'll go home with a reprimand and a head shorter. Some of these scoes are so all over the place, lol.
Today is a 2002 deja vu day for me, here is another one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3_5K3agfbkc&t=56
Ara Gevorkian is quite popular with Armenian skaters this season, I just wish they'd look beyond the Artsakh.
Ara Gevorkian is quite popular with Armenian skaters this season, I just wish they'd look beyond the Artsakh.
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- Sep 1, 2020
Eh, that leg wrap move might be N/M's usual go-to. It most certainly is NOT their 'trademark' simply because they do it often. They do not own it as a 'trademark' move, and they are not the only team performing it right now. It is seen often in pairs and ice dance. A number of teams, obviously, have copied the move ever since it was first debuted by Liu/ O'Shea, as choreographed for them by former ice dancers, John & Sinead Kerr. And, as I said, it's not a particularly attractive move as performed by N/M. It tends to look more elegant on ladies with longer legs, such as Chelsea (Sinead, too, has long legs which may have a lot to do with how and why she and John created the move for Chelsea & Danny). Even Danny & Ellie have performed this move, but I doubt Danny would call it their 'trademark.' If it is a move that can be called a trademark of any team, it would be Chelsea & Danny, as choreographed by the Kerrs. It is NOT a Nagaoka/ Morguchi 'trademark', simply because they like doing it in their programs.
No argument that Zhang/ Huang were the best technically, and that N/M have improved. Still, Nagaoka made mistakes under pressure, skating last. But as we saw, Moriguchi cheered her in the kiss 'n cry because he knows they 'got this' if they manage to skate clean in the fp (and as well as they have shown in practices). These two teams have feds that pay for top-notch choreographers, which again, does not make them pcs mavens in terms of presentation. Just having interesting choreo does not mean a team has superior presentation skills. It's about actually knowing how to express and interpret the music well, which we certainly saw from the Kovalevs, Valesi/ Bidar, and other more mature, experienced pairs teams at this event. It's not news, though, that pcs are always questionably scored.
LOL at your description of Korovin 'barely' looking at Gamez. They still have nice lines and a lovely look on the ice. I like Gamez's determination. She's lucky to have the resources to persevere in her passion for pairs skating. Korovin must have an interesting personality off-the-ice.
At least, he isn't showing the obvious disdain he used to display in the kiss n' cry. That's progress.- Joined
- Sep 1, 2020
I looked at Shin/Nagy's performance again. Yes, there could have been slight contact on the 3-twist dismount. Perhaps with Audrey's right arm at the last minute. It would be hard to see, even for the judges, because the GOE on their twist went from +0.57 to +0.38 to +0.33. And then, it went to -0.08, and the scorebox went red. That was what my original reaction was about, the negative GOE given on the 3-twist. That's what I was referring to in real time. I did not see that the 3-twist element box switched back to green, nor what what positive GOE it went back to because the scoreboard quickly showed red and -0.32 for the next element, the sbs triple toe loop jumps that were slightly out of sync. I think that's a lot to take off for landed jumps, despite S/N being noticeably out of sync. It depends on who the skaters are, the event, and the judging panel. Not every team is given negative GOE on out-of-sync jumps.
Now I'm looking at the slo-mo replay of the 3-twist dismount, and the catch looks clean. The judges may believe there was contact because of the way Audrey did not clearly place both arms above her head like experienced pairs girls do to emphasize 'no contact'. Her right arm did not appear to touch Balasz but it might have seemed to the judges that it did due to the way she had it in a low position, and there was no clear angle to see with the camera showing Balasz's back, unless there was another angle available to the judges.
Sadly, the problem Balasz had on solidifying his blade pick on the death spiral, in hindsight, was foreshadowed by his odd slip while getting into position for the opening sp pose.
In any case, S/N physically look good together and their The Godfather program is well-choreographed. They have certainly worked hard and Audrey has made obvious improvements. They need to gain confidence together, so hopefully they can shake off this disappointment and regroup. I still question U.S. fed's judgement surrounding the Beijing selection. I know some fans don't care. I saw someone mention that the U.S. has teams with citizenship issues so it doesn't matter. Actually, it does matter to athletes whether they get an opportunity to go to the Olympics. Plus, U.S. pairs in the lead-up to 2022 Olympics had three pairs teams in the top 10 in World standings, and 4 teams in the top 15. There's no way any politically savvy country would have meekly accepted not having 3 pairs teams go to the 2022 Olympics with those World stats and a World class team in Calalang/ Johnson who ended up having to stay home. At least, next year, the U.S. will have three pairs spots for Worlds, and deservingly so.It would have been better to see McBeath/ Parkman fight for a third Olympic spot in Beijing, despite not being able to go themselves. At this stage, it's likely that Kam/ O'Shea and Chan Howe will be named to the Olympics. A third spot might have gone to Shin/ Nagy or Plazas/ Fernandez. It is impossible for Alisa Efimova to gain U.S. citizenship in time, under normal circumstances.
To be honest with what the US has for teams with citizenship and how they've been skating i'm not sure the US needed 3 spots. But the USFS needs to explain why they named S/N in the first place to this competition before they saw how all of the US teams looked at the John Nicks competition. C/H looked way better and this is all on the USFS who again seem to be clueless. Anyone know when the entries had to be in for this event? Could McBeath/ Parkman have been here instead i thought the qualifying team would also have to have citizenship too.
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Justin Dillon confirmed in this article that Shin/Nagy were chosen based on a competition simulation at Champs Camp, so there's the USFS explanation.
Shin and Nagy Travel To Beijing, With Milano On Their Minds - U.S. Figure Skating
Next week, Audrey Shin and Balazs Nagy have the chance to help Team USA do something it hasn't done since 1984: bring 18 athletes — three entries in each of the
usfigureskatingfanzone.com
Honestly I’m surprised too. After reading the comments I wanted to see if i’ll have the same reaction from the first time i saw it so i watched it again, went back and nitpick their performance.
Actually the SBS jumps was way out of sync compare to my initial impression. Most of their elements actually look unsecured but mostly coming from her.
Good lift and good complexity on their stsq but wasn’t standout. They have that traditional “pairs look” and lines that is great with optics so I thought PCS will be slightly higher but then I felt like everyone was underscored in PCS except for Japan and China who i thought got propped a bit.
Overall i don’t really see any injustice in their score. And despite not agreeing with some of the GOEs and PCS to some teams I thought the judges score was within the median of the score I would have given.
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- Aug 9, 2018
To be honest, I think there shouldn't be a 3rd Olympic spot to win at the qualifying competition for countries which have already qualified 2 pairs.
For men, women and eventually ice dance, I'm ok with giving the opportunity to earn a 3rd spot because they are more slots available for the Olympics.
But there are only 19 slots available for pairs, so I think it would be better to give an opportunity to countries which haven't qualified yet and countries which only qualified one pair (like Japan), rather than having countries which have already 2 slots taking a slot off countries which don't have any pair qualified yet ((and that could potentially help having more teams completed for the Olympic team event)).
For men, women and eventually ice dance, I'm ok with giving the opportunity to earn a 3rd spot because they are more slots available for the Olympics.
But there are only 19 slots available for pairs, so I think it would be better to give an opportunity to countries which haven't qualified yet and countries which only qualified one pair (like Japan), rather than having countries which have already 2 slots taking a slot off countries which don't have any pair qualified yet ((and that could potentially help having more teams completed for the Olympic team event)).
Ha.
She too has Armenian roots: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQA9za-Re-c&t=108Isn't it nice when skaters use music by lesser-known composers associated with their country, like junior Czechs techno-Smetana this season. Perhaps, Hungarians could skate to some ELP-Bartok, would fit their athletic style.
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- Jan 28, 2013
I'm in the camp that would be OK if S/N earn that third USA spot, and I'll be OK if they don't. I'm a merit-based guy, so let the best three teams win, and the chips fall where they may. Despite the low ranking in the short, I'm not so certain this thing is completely out of reach.I looked at Shin/Nagy's performance again. Yes, there could have been slight contact on the 3-twist dismount. Perhaps with Audrey's right arm at the last minute. It would be hard to see, even for the judges, because the GOE on their twist went from +0.57 to +0.38 to +0.33. And then, it went to -0.08, and the scorebox went red. That was what my original reaction was about, the negative GOE given on the 3-twist. That's what I was referring to in real time. I did not see that the 3-twist element box switched back to green, nor what what positive GOE it went back to because the scoreboard quickly showed red and -0.32 for the next element, the sbs triple toe loop jumps that were slightly out of sync. I think that's a lot to take off for landed jumps, despite S/N being noticeably out of sync. It depends on who the skaters are, the event, and the judging panel. Not every team is given negative GOE on out-of-sync jumps.
Now I'm looking at the slo-mo replay of the 3-twist dismount, and the catch looks clean. The judges may believe there was contact because of the way Audrey did not clearly place both arms above her head like experienced pairs girls do to emphasize 'no contact'. Her right arm did not appear to touch Balasz but it might have seemed to the judges that it did due to the way she had it in a low position, and there was no clear angle to see with the camera showing Balasz's back, unless there was another angle available to the judges.
Sadly, the problem Balasz had on solidifying his blade pick on the death spiral, in hindsight, was foreshadowed by his odd slip while getting into position for the opening sp pose.
It would have been better to see McBeath/ Parkman fight for a third Olympic spot in Beijing, despite not being able to go themselves. At this stage, it's likely that Kam/ O'Shea and Chan Howe will be named to the Olympics. A third spot might have gone to Shin/ Nagy or Plazas/ Fernandez. It is impossible for Alisa Efimova to gain U.S. citizenship in time, under normal circumstances.
It is ironic that they survived the SBS and throw, the elements that typically plague US pairs, and bombed what is usually a basic kind of element. Oh well. I agree with you there needs to be some justification as to why they were sent to earn this spot when there were clear competitive alternatives who have beaten them last season and more recently.
Also, I'm not 100% sold that Alisa Effimova has not shot as citizenship. I keep hearing reports that Misha has said that there are things in the works. I did a brief exploration some time ago regarding the circumstances under which an acceleration of citizenship could occur. It's not easy, but also not impossible. Time will tell.
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- Mar 7, 2015
I was under the impression that an accelerated citizenship could be granted for "exceptional" contribution. Efimova is great. We all love her. But has she won a world's medal ? Is she really a contender for an Olympic medal ? If the USA didn't have another good option, they could argue that she is needed for the team event... but not even.
Of course, I am no expert on American politics/citizenship rules. But considering past examples, I don't see why it would be done for her, in these circumstances.
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- Mar 7, 2015
my take on this : no country should even qualify 3 skaters in any discipline. Even singles. However, more countries should be able to qualify 2. Finally, for me, the olympic qualifer should be only about countries without a spot.
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- Aug 12, 2014
I don't think that actual figure skating fans and followers will react that way. I don't follow the media where hate-spielers abound.
I wish USFS had waited till after the teams had competed to assign Audrey and Balazs. But I'm glad they didn't change the assignment after John Nicks or the other event.
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