Firsti Kimmy and now Nina too? What is going on.
2025-26 Grand Prix assignments released
- Thread starter gsk8
- Start date
Skaters with injuries taking time out to try to ensure that they recover in time for the Olympics, rather than trying to just push through like they often do in non-Olympic seasons.
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- Sep 1, 2020
I don't think that's how the alternates selection process works. I doubt skaters talk to each other regarding 'switching' GP opportunities. Surely, Gogo had been conferring with his coach all along. They knew Gogo was next on the alternates list, and they may have had advance knowledge of the two injury openings coming up. There's no way it would have made sense for Gogo to accept Cup of China right before Skate Canada, even if another opening had not been immediately available. But thank the skating gods it worked out the way it did for Gogo. It wouldn't have worked the other way either logistically nor in terms of readiness to perform well.
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- Sep 1, 2020
@Kiki5375, I don't think skaters are able to strike 'deals' regarding GP assignments. The ISU, more than likely works out deals with federations in some logistical aspects. I know that top skaters in the U.S. may have preferences regarding GPs, and/ or they are assigned/ invited, for e.g., on the basis of hereditary connections: Hiwatashi and Spencer Howe typically get NHK. Camden Pulkinen tended to get Finlandia (he has Finnish heritage). Jason Brown has always liked NHK, though he didn't get it this year. In some instances, e.g., Olympic team event, skaters from the same country surely discuss options with each other. But ultimately, their federation makes the final decision. It's known that Hubbell/ Donahue desired to compete only once in the team event in 2022, so that their friends and teammates, Chock/ Bates could also compete in the team event.
In the case of the Selevko brothers, more than likely, Aleksandr was cool with Mihhail getting to attend 2025 Worlds because there was only one spot available for Estonia. The bad judging at 2024 Worlds had robbed Aleksandr of placing 10th and getting 2 spots for 2025.
@4everchan makes good points about the GP selection process. It often ends up with unfairness. Just as often, there are a lot of withdrawals, largely due to injury, and sometimes visa or travel issues. In other rare cases, skaters may desire to pace themselves and not expend too much of their energies. Sui/ Han are famous for not having competed every GP season over the previous quad, due to nursing injuries, and saving themselves for a full push in the second half of the season. They may have competed 2 to 2 1/2 out of the 4 GP seasons leading up to 2022 Beijing Olympics.
In any case, the ISU needs to rework the competitive structure overall. There is too much depth of talent for them not to rethink the entire competitive process. They don't have to rush into changes, but they should start reviewing, reassessing, gathering new ideas, and experimentally trying out new approaches. As ever, though, the sticking point, IMO, is that the ISU tries to manage two sports that realistically have nothing to do with each other. Historically, figure skating has always gotten the short end of the stick.
In the case of the Selevko brothers, more than likely, Aleksandr was cool with Mihhail getting to attend 2025 Worlds because there was only one spot available for Estonia. The bad judging at 2024 Worlds had robbed Aleksandr of placing 10th and getting 2 spots for 2025.
@4everchan makes good points about the GP selection process. It often ends up with unfairness. Just as often, there are a lot of withdrawals, largely due to injury, and sometimes visa or travel issues. In other rare cases, skaters may desire to pace themselves and not expend too much of their energies. Sui/ Han are famous for not having competed every GP season over the previous quad, due to nursing injuries, and saving themselves for a full push in the second half of the season. They may have competed 2 to 2 1/2 out of the 4 GP seasons leading up to 2022 Beijing Olympics.
In any case, the ISU needs to rework the competitive structure overall. There is too much depth of talent for them not to rethink the entire competitive process. They don't have to rush into changes, but they should start reviewing, reassessing, gathering new ideas, and experimentally trying out new approaches. As ever, though, the sticking point, IMO, is that the ISU tries to manage two sports that realistically have nothing to do with each other. Historically, figure skating has always gotten the short end of the stick.
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- Joined
- Sep 1, 2020
'Decline', 'choose'; same difference. The important thing is that it worked out beautifully for Gogo, to match the beautiful way he's been skating lately!
- Joined
- Sep 1, 2020
I believe I've figured out why this likely happened. Somewhat of a deal may have been struck after the U.S. had to change their scheduling date for Skate America. I believe that the three U.S. guys who are competing at GP France (now the first GP) were initially assigned to Skate America, the original first GP (Malinin; Naumov; and Torgashev). That would mean the two guys now at Skate America (Jason Brown and Jimmy Ma) were initially assigned to GP France, as were the three Italian guys! (mystery solved)
Thus, when the GPs were switched, apparently the entry lineups, for the most part, remained unchanged. That's the only way this makes sense.Another thing: before Broussard and Pulkinen pulled out of their events with injury, there were 10 U.S. men competing on the GP, with three U.S. men each at Finlandia and GP France. So, the change in scheduling is why there are not three U.S. guys at Skate America this year. Also, only 6 of the initial 10 U.S. men had two GP assignments; now 6 of the 8 U.S. men have two GP assignments.
A brief check of the current list indicates:
8 men for USA
7 men for Japan
5 men for Italy
4 men for France
3 men for Canada
3 men for China
2 bros for Estonia
And 1 guy each for the following:
Kazakhstan
South Korea
Georgia
Switzerland
Latvia
Azerbaijan
Sweden
Slovakia
Finland
Poland
True. Thus, a combo of seedings and points system; top seed preferences, plus federations making their choices/ invitations. Then, injury pull-outs leading to substitutions based on the alternates list. This year was complicated by the switch in scheduling between GP France and Skate America.
That flaw existed before as well. Visa issues or countries already maxed out.
I prefer this. At least now we know who is in line for the next spot. Or, if that skater is unavailable we know who's next.
I hope Samodelkina had a valid excuse for declining her spot at China. If she had, she would get Canada. If not, those two spots should indeed go to Seoyoung Kim.
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- Joined
- Feb 12, 2014
There's a much easier explanation. All you have to do is swap Shaidorov and Malinin as top seeded skaters between France and Skate America. Ilia wanted Skate America before the dates switched, but opted for France to keep his optimal competition schedule, but they might have already done a preliminary round of assignments before Ilia's preference was taken into account.
Yeah, and I have a slight suspicion that Wakaba Higuchi also might wd from her assignments as well. She didn't look good at all at Kinoshita Group Cup.
I think this is overthinking it a lot. The schedule for when and where was available at the same time as assignments were made.I believe I've figured out why this likely happened. Somewhat of a deal may have been struck after the U.S. had to change their scheduling date for Skate America. I believe that the three U.S. guys who are competing at GP France (now the first GP) were initially assigned to Skate America, the original first GP (Malinin; Naumov; and Torgashev). That would mean the two guys now at Skate America (Jason Brown and Jimmy Ma) were initially assigned to GP France, as were the three Italian guys! (mystery solved)
Another thing: before Broussard and Pulkinen pulled out of their events with injury, there were 10 U.S. men competing on the GP, with three U.S. men each at Finlandia and GP France. So, the change in scheduling is why there are not three U.S. guys at Skate America this year. Also, only 6 of the initial 10 U.S. men had two GP assignments; now 6 of the 8 U.S. men have two GP assignments.
A brief check of the current list indicates:
8 men for USA
7 men for Japan
5 men for Italy
4 men for France
3 men for Canada
3 men for China
2 bros for Estonia
And 1 guy each for the following:
Kazakhstan
South Korea
Georgia
Switzerland
Latvia
Azerbaijan
Sweden
Slovakia
Finland
Poland
True. Thus, a combo of seedings and points system; top seed preferences, plus federations making their choices/ invitations. Then, injury pull-outs leading to substitutions based on the alternates list. This year was complicated by the switch in scheduling between GP France and Skate America.
I doubt there was any shuffling with locations at all.
That said, US did some kind of deal to gain one spot for Men...even though they gave up one host spot. Pulkinen and Naumov should never gotten any spots at all as they were poorly ranked, but somehow the US Fed managed to get Naumov to France and Pulkinen to China.
So, one host spot short, but gained two for poorly ranked skaters.
Pulkinen was #43 on the SB list (WS list 32). He had Vinokur above him that didn't get a spot plus a lot of higher ranked skaters that could have gotten a second spot.
Naumov was #57 on SB (WS 77). There were 13(!!) skaters ranked better without a spot, and many more ranked even higher that could have used a second spot.
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- Joined
- Sep 1, 2020
Same difference. Plus, I was talking specifically about why three Italian guys are at Skate America, with only two U.S. guys. I think, as I said, that for the most part the two events switched but the lineups at those events did not switch. I believe Malinin, Naumov, and possibly Torgashev were originally set for Skate America as the first GP. The 3 Italian guys at Skate America were likely originally assigned to GP France. So, now it all makes more sense, even despite seeming strange. There were initially 10 U.S. men assigned to GPs and two GPs initially had 3 U.S. men. One of those two events had been Skate America before the scheduling switch. The scheduling switch is why Skate America ended up with only two U.S. men assigned.
- Joined
- Sep 1, 2020
Obviously, some deal-making occurred regarding the U.S. initially having 10 men, with six of those men being assigned two spots. And then, there was logistical deal-making once the U.S. had to reschedule Skate America.
Plenty of guys could have used a second GP. And a whole host of others could have used at least one GP assignment over some of the guys who have two. Maxim Naumov was most likely initially given the host spot at Skate America, okay. He only has one GP. He's the least of the competitors anyone should be decrying a GP assignment by griping about his WS numbers.
I did not 'overthink' anything. I simply took a closer look at the men's GP event line-ups and realized the U.S. was in no way shortchanging their men's division by only having 2 U.S. guys at Skate America. Anybody who is into looking at this further from different angles, that's fine. At this point, it is what it is at whichever angle of reasoning.
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- Mar 7, 2015
that's my point though... there were flaws... they changed it... it's slightly better but... there are still flaws
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- Sep 1, 2020
Big bad U.S. fed. 
Pulkinen getting one GP assignment is in no way out of line. Plus, he was invited by Finland, obviously, as per usual. He's not there now, due to injury, so why gripe after the fact? Are you not happy for Stephen Gogolev getting an additional GP assignment due to Pulkinen having to pull out?Please leave brave, talented Maxim Naumov out of your griping, too! This young man lost both parents (who were also his coaches) in one horrific instant earlier this year. He has handled this terrible loss with such grace and courage. Why would anyone begrudge Naumov receiving one GP, initially via a host spot!? It's not a handout. He's a very talented and accomplished skater. As I said, Maxim was undoubtedly initially assigned the Skate America host spot. When the U.S. had to switch the scheduling of Skate America, the three U.S. guys initially set for Skate America (including Naumov) ended up at GP France, which replaced SkAm as the first GP.
If you're so worried about skaters far down the WS or not even on the WS list getting one GP via a host spot, or two GPs via a host spot and an invite via another fed's GP, why not go after lesser known and up-and-coming young skaters who got host spots at China and NHK (plus a second invite in a couple of cases).
/s- Joined
- Sep 1, 2020
To reiterate, GP assignments are obviously not based on WS rankings. Anyone can check the World standings list and gripe (as I did earlier on behalf of Arlet Levandi and Aleksandr Selevko). Here are some more examples:
FYI: it was Lucas Broussard who had been assigned Cup of China; he pulled out with injury and Tomoki Hiwatashi, who reps the U.S. but was born in Japan and currently trains there, got a second GP at China. You didn't gripe about that. Hiwatashi is #31 on WS list vs Arlet Levandi at #29, who got no GPs, and Aleksandr Selevko at #14 and Adam Hagara at #18, who both got only one GP. Selevko may luck out and receive another GP, as he's next on the alternate list. Jacob Sanchez is #19 in WS, higher than a number of guys who got 2 GPs, while Jacob only got 1 GP. It's a crowded year with few openings. Obviously, World standing rankings do not play a major role in GP assignments. It's about competition results; federation size & clout and depth of disciplines; plus individual skaters' results at the World championships which parlay into reputation and popularity. As always, let's not forget about politics and the manipulable judging system.
Some talented skaters, like Arlet Levandi and one or the other of the Selevko brothers, can't even get to compete at Worlds every year, which is where they can gain cred and points for GP assignments. They can't get to Worlds, not because they aren't talented, but in part due to competing for a smaller federation with no political clout, despite all three of them having huge talent, perhaps greater talent than a few guys from larger federations who have 2 GPs. All of these examples show that the ISU and federations need to change how the competitive structure operates in order to accommodate the huge depth of talent in all disciplines and to provide greater opportunities, not fewer, which is what happens when the ISU continues cutting back on World championship entries.
Some fans like to pick on U.S. fed and U.S. skaters as the big target for disdain. I do not generally see fans tearing down other large federations with political clout like Japan, Canada, France, Italy, China, et al. The U.S. may have political power, but they rarely understand how to use it effectively on behalf of their skaters. The reason why a lot of U.S. skaters are prevalent in the sport is because of their talent, not because U.S. fed effectively wields political power. Right now, U.S. and Japanese men have been dominating the sport, closely followed by France, Italy, and formerly Russia. In addition, South Korea and China have burgeoning men's disciplines. A number of other countries with small skating federations have mainly one or two talented top singles skaters, often with no pairs or dance teams, or perhaps only one or two teams in those disciplines.
The balance of power at the top fluctuates as talent levels shift. Quads are still heavily weighted and vastly important to achieve top success in the men's discipline, and formerly among women, too, to some extent (sadly, IMO). The U.S. has recently lucked out with amazingly talented athletes with singular mental focus in Nathan Chen and Ilia Malinin, but once Malinin retires, I currently do not see especially well-rounded multiple quadsters coming up in the U.S. Of course, that can change as the next group of U.S. men continue to develop. Still, the balance of power will likely shift moreso to Japan (a country that has been dominating for years anyway with the depth of its men's discipline, without complaint by most fans). Immensely talented Rio Nakata will definitely rise quickly when he comes up to seniors. There are also some well-rounded quadsters in South Korea. There will still be room for skaters who may have only one or two quads, and for artistically talented and consistent, well-rounded competitors like Arlet Levandi and Adam Hagara. But, it will be the quadsters commanding major podiums.
Unless and until the ISU recognizes and resolves the necessity to bring more opportunities and balanced equity to the competitive structure, not much will improve regarding fairness in the GP selection process.
I know all this. Only the top 24 in the WS list are guaranteed one spot. The rest of assignments are going through the SB list, which is also the list the Alternate list is based upon. I didn't mention Hiwatashi because he got his spots as he was at the top of the Alternate list after his great skate at Kinoshita Group Cup. So that was fair.
What I'm saying is, the ranking on the SB list was as follows, with assignments
Top 29 all got 2 spots, then:
30 A Selevko one spot
31 Hagara one spot (because he was a JW medalist)
33 Samoilov one spot
34 Circelli one spot
35 Yin two spots (incl one host spot)
36 Sanchez one spot (because he was the JGP winner)
38 Nordebäck one spot
40 Pitot two spots (incl one host spot)
41 Vinokur no spots
43 Pulkinen one spot
44 Hiwatashi no spots
45 Kim no spots
46 Nakamura no spots
47 Rakic one host spot
49 Lee no spots
51 Levandi no spots
52 Shmuratko no spots
53 Guarino Sabaté no spots
54 Daniliants no spots
55 Gogolev no spots
56 Appleby no spots
57 Naumov one spot
As you can see, there are a lot of skaters above both Pulkinen and Naumov that could gotten a spot or get a 2nd spot.
1-29 all got two spots. Ranked 30-40 got one spot. Then the jumping in ranking starts.
If we go strictly by ranking - Selevko, Hagara, Samoilov and Circelli could have gotten a 2nd spot. OR, if we had given one spot to 4 other skaters, then the next in line would have been Vinokur, Pulkinen, Hiwatashi, Kim (so Pulkinen would get a spot in this scenario).
Instead Nordebäck, Pitot, Pulkinen and Naumov got one spot. All of them from federations that are hosts. (Finland gave one host spot to their neighbour Nordebäck). The skaters that were looked over all came from smaller feds. So in the end, NOT counting host spots, US gained 2, France 1 and Sweden 1, if you go strictly by ranking. Also noted is that the other host feds from Canada, China and Japan didn't get extra spots.
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Thank you. My mind slipped there for a minute...
- Joined
- Sep 1, 2020
Complain to the ISU, then. And let them know your better ideas for the GP selection process. Bottom line: Pulkinen has previously had top level competitive results and he's popularly regarded for his talent. He was invited by Finland federation to participate at Finlandia Trophy, as he usually has been. His father has Finnish heritage.
And again, it should not be difficult to understand the fact that Maxim Naumov was initially a Skate America host selection by U.S. fed. Some fans may not want to believe it, but IMO, there's no doubt that all three U.S. guys, and likely many other invited athletes competing at GP France were initially set to compete at Skate America (aside from the French skaters). When the rescheduling switch took place between France and the U.S., many of the assigned skaters did not switch, especially the three U.S. men: Malinin, Naumov, and Torgashev. And the three Italian men now competing at Skate America: Circelli, Rizzo, and Grassl.
Once again, Pulkinen is no longer competing on the GP. He's injured. So you might as well stop beating the drum about him. Also, for goodness sake, please cease complaining about Maxim Naumov receiving one GP (initially a host selection). Find some other skaters who got GPs over those who didn't to complain about. There are plenty of skaters, besides talented Maxim Naumov (who grievously lost his parents), to pull from the GP assignment list and complain about. Quite clearly, the World standings rankings are NOT the only factor in determining the GP selection process.
Of course, you can continue your complaining if you wish. It will be to no avail. The process is not going to change next year. The sport of figure skating is not and has never been fair. I'm sure plenty of skaters can bear witness to this harsh reality.
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