Beginner on inward curve when skating straight on one foot

[annetter]

I have wondered if my Coronation Ace should be placed differently on my Risport RF3 Pro - it is standard mounting, not adjusted to me - or might be faulty, as I have as a beginner (adult) tended to skate on an inward curve after a (very) short distance when trying to skate in a straight line on one foot (especially backwards - the inward curves seemed rather sharp to me - I seemed to be practically unable to skate straight backwards on one foot).

The group teacher seemed to not observe any (external) problem with my skates, but attribute my curving movement to my beginner status.

It is my impression that I have (relatively) high arches, but I am not aware of having excessive pronation. I wonder if this might contribute to my skating on an inward curve when trying to skate straight on one foot, and if insoles might be helpful.
I would be interested in information about insoles good for this purpose.

I have seen
http://www.goldenskate.com/forum/threads/cannot-glide-on-one-foot-in-a-straight-line.95552 .

 

[tstop4me]

I have wondered if my Coronation Ace should be placed differently on my Risport RF3 Pro - it is standard mounting, not adjusted to me - or might be faulty, as I have as a beginner (adult) tended to skate on an inward curve after a (very) short distance when trying to skate in a straight line on one foot (especially backwards - the inward curves seemed rather sharp to me - I seemed to be practically unable to skate straight backwards on one foot).

The group teacher seemed to not observe any (external) problem with my skates, but attribute my curving movement to my beginner status.

It is my impression that I have (relatively) high arches, but I am not aware of having excessive pronation. I wonder if this might contribute to my skating on an inward curve when trying to skate straight on one foot, and if insoles might be helpful.
I would be interested in information about insoles good for this purpose.

I have seen
http://www.goldenskate.com/forum/threads/cannot-glide-on-one-foot-in-a-straight-line.95552 .

* If you've read the other thread, then you know that there are three potential categories (either alone or in combination) of causes: (a) Equipment, (b) Feet (and other associated body parts), and (c) Technique. I'll address these in different order.

* (1) With respect to equipment, please confirm: Did you buy your gear new or used? Do the boots fit properly and are they in good shape? Check that the blades are longitudinally (toe to heel) straight; no bowing or warping. Then check that the edges are level. Only simple equipment is needed. An experienced tech, coach, or skater should be able to help.

* (2) With respect to technique, how long have you been skating, and what level are you? You wrote that your group coach attributes your problems to your "beginner status". But if your gear comprises Risport RF3 Pro boots with Coronation Ace blades, I assume you're not a rank newbie. Is that correct? Did you have different gear previously, and did you have similar problems? Do you have the same problems with your glides for each foot? Are you comfortable skating backwards?

* (3) With respect to pronation, figure skating is more sensitive to pronation than other activities (such as walking or running). So even if pronation is not an issue with other activities, it still could be an issue with figure skating. Pronation in figure skating can be addressed by one or more of the following (i) changing the position (and sometimes orientation) of the blade, (ii) corrective orthotics/insoles/footbeds, and (iii) shimming the blade. We can discuss these further later after you've answered (1) and (2).

 

[annetter]

* If you've read the other thread, then you know that there are three potential categories (either alone or in combination) of causes: (a) Equipment, (b) Feet (and other associated body parts), and (c) Technique. I'll address these in different order.

* (1) With respect to equipment, please confirm: Did you buy your gear new or used? Do the boots fit properly and are they in good shape? Check that the blades are longitudinally (toe to heel) straight; no bowing or warping. Then check that the edges are level. Only simple equipment is needed. An experienced tech, coach, or skater should be able to help.

* (2) With respect to technique, how long have you been skating, and what level are you? You wrote that your group coach attributes your problems to your "beginner status". But if your gear comprises Risport RF3 Pro boots with Coronation Ace blades, I assume you're not a rank newbie. Is that correct? Did you have different gear previously, and did you have similar problems? Do you have the same problems with your glides for each foot? Are you comfortable skating backwards?

* (3) With respect to pronation, figure skating is more sensitive to pronation than other activities (such as walking or running). So even if pronation is not an issue with other activities, it still could be an issue with figure skating. Pronation in figure skating can be addressed by one or more of the following (i) changing the position (and sometimes orientation) of the blade, (ii) corrective orthotics/insoles/footbeds, and (iii) shimming the blade. We can discuss these further later after you've answered (1) and (2).

Thank you for your detailed and helpful reply!

My Risport RF3 Pro with Coronation Ace (my first skates) were bought new from a reseller/fitter - they are in good shape. Extensive fitting with several measurements was not undertaken (foot length was measured), but they seemed to fit (front end of toes not wide, ball of foot wide), and they have been comfortable - I do not remember any pain after skating in them.
I chose Coronation Ace in connection with my long toes (spin rocker further to the back).

It was my first time skating in my RF3 Pro and Coronation Ace. I seem to remember the curved movement happening on both feet in single-foot glides - I hope to check this on the ice. I seem to remember it being a backward stroking-type exercise (I am not aware of having inhibiting fear of moving backwards).
Prior to this, I had taken only two trial (group) lessons - in borrowed Risport Excellence (absolute beginner).

I have not been aware of pronation being an issue for me when dancing (beginner/intermediate) or walking. From information on the internet, I got the impression I have high arches (as I have thought). I also have short little [pinky] toes.

I hope to check the shape of my Coronation Ace, as you have described.
I would be interested in recommendations for insoles for high arches (for Risport RF3 Pro).

I imagine that ideally, a fitter should observe one's single-foot glide and if necessary adjust the blade.

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

Thank you for your detailed and helpful reply!

My Risport RF3 Pro with Coronation Ace (my first skates) were bought new from a reseller/fitter- they are in good shape. Extensive fitting with several measurements was not undertaken (foot length was measured), but they seemed to fit (front end of toes not wide, ball of foot wide), and they have been comfortable - I do not remember any pain after skating in them.
I chose Coronation Ace in connection with my long toes (spin rocker further to the back).

It was my first time skating in my RF3 Pro and Coronation Ace. I seem to remember the curved movement happening on both feet in single-foot glides - I hope to check this on the ice. I seem to remember it being a backward stroking-type exercise (I am not aware of having inhibiting fear of moving backwards).
Prior to this, I had taken only two trial (group) lessons - in borrowed Risport Excellence (absolute beginner).

I have not been aware of pronation being an issue for me when dancing (beginner/intermediate) or walking. From information on the internet, I got the impression I have high arches (as I have thought). I also have short little toes.

I hope to check the shape of my Coronation Ace, as you have described.
I would be interested in recommendations for insoles for high arches (for Risport RF3 Pro).

I imagine that ideally, a fitter should observe one's single-foot glide and if necessary adjust the blade.

Hello. So my first question is, you contradicted yourself describing your toes and why you needed particular equipment, so which is it? Short or long toes and not sure why you think if your toes should happen to be long that you needed the spin rocker further to the back.

Secondly, a fitter/skate pro needs to see this and watch you skate/glide on both feet and then one foot each so they can assess the problem. Also, I'm going to say it: Due to your skates being bought used, that might be part of the issue with the blade.

 

[tstop4me]

I imagine that ideally, a fitter should observe one's single-foot glide and if necessary adjust the blade.

* Ideally, yes. Is the fitter that you bought the skates from located at your rink, and do they offer rink-side service?

* Are your blades mounted with a temp mount (which is what your fitter should have done)? Each blade should be mounted with only four screws: two in the elongated slots in the sole plate and two in the elongated slots in the heel plate. This permits limited repositioning of the blade. If additional screws were installed (which some fitters do), the additional screws need to be removed to create a temp mount.

* Use a Sharpie to trace the outlines of the sole plate and heel plate of the blade onto the sole and heel of the boot. This marks the first position of the blade. The four screws are loosened (not removed entirely) until the blade can move. In your instance, the blade would first be moved as far to the inside as possible. This is the second position of the blade. The screws are then retightened. It's best to have your fitter do all this. But if you or someone you know are handy with a screwdriver, then go ahead (just be careful not to overtighten the screws because you can strip the threaded screw holes).

* If the movement is too much (i.e., you curve outwards), you need to reposition the blade. [This is probably not likely in your case.] Use a different color Sharpie to trace the second position of the blade. Then loosen the screws, move the blade outward between the first and second positions, and retighten the screws.

* If the movement is not enough (i.e., you still curve inwards), then you have various options (may need a combo): (1) permanently plug the existing screw holes, and drill new holes to move the blade further inward (there's a limit to how far you can go with this), (2) shim the blade, and (3) wear a corrective insole/footbed/orthotic.

* You really haven't broken in the boots yet. Given your inexperience, you might want to try out several more sessions before making any adjustments to the blade. Also, at this early stage, focus on the forward one-foot glides, and don't worry about the backward one-foot glides. You will likely need to tweak the blade mount later anyway.

* I don't have any recommendations for insoles. Off-the-shelf units are hit-or-miss. I have flat feet (previously normal arches that are now fallen) and pronate strongly. I make my own insoles, because my podiatrist (who fitted me with prescription orthotics for walking and running shoes) had no experience with prescription orthotics for figure skates (and I couldn't find another local podiatrist with the proper experience either).

 

[annetter]

Hello. So my first question is, you contradicted yourself describing your toes and why you needed particular equipment, so which is it? Short or long toes and not sure why you think if your toes should happen to be long that you needed the spin rocker further to the back.

Secondly, a fitter/skate pro needs to see this and watch you skate/glide on both feet and then one foot each so they can assess the problem. Also, I'm going to say it: Due to your skates being bought used, that might be part of the issue with the blade.

Sorry if my information was unclear.

It is my impression that my toes other than my little (pinky) toes, which I find abnormally short (I wonder if this affects my balance), are long. I have imagined that a spin rocker further back (than on MK Professional) might be helpful for this.

My skates were bought new (I seem to have seen fitters described as brand resellers) and skated in once by me. It would be reassuring if the seller had checked my skating in them.

 

[annetter]

* Ideally, yes. Is the fitter that you bought the skates from located at your rink, and do they offer rink-side service?

* Are your blades mounted with a temp mount (which is what your fitter should have done)? Each blade should be mounted with only four screws: two in the elongated slots in the sole plate and two in the elongated slots in the heel plate. This permits limited repositioning of the blade. If additional screws were installed (which some fitters do), the additional screws need to be removed to create a temp mount.

* Use a Sharpie to trace the outlines of the sole plate and heel plate of the blade onto the sole and heel of the boot. This marks the first position of the blade. The four screws are loosened (not removed entirely) until the blade can move. In your instance, the blade would first be moved as far to the inside as possible. This is the second position of the blade. The screws are then retightened. It's best to have your fitter do all this. But if you or someone you know are handy with a screwdriver, then go ahead (just be careful not to overtighten the screws because you can strip the threaded screw holes).

* If the movement is too much (i.e., you curve outwards), you need to reposition the blade. [This is probably not likely in your case.] Use a different color Sharpie to trace the second position of the blade. Then loosen the screws, move the blade outward between the first and second positions, and retighten the screws.

* If the movement is not enough (i.e., you still curve inwards), then you have various options (may need a combo): (1) permanently plug the existing screw holes, and drill new holes to move the blade further inward (there's a limit to how far you can go with this), (2) shim the blade, and (3) wear a corrective insole/footbed/orthotic.

* You really haven't broken in the boots yet. Given your inexperience, you might want to try out several more sessions before making any adjustments to the blade. Also, at this early stage, focus on the forward one-foot glides, and don't worry about the backward one-foot glides. You will likely need to tweak the blade mount later anyway.

* I don't have any recommendations for insoles. Off-the-shelf units are hit-or-miss. I have flat feet (previously normal arches that are now fallen) and pronate strongly. I make my own insoles, because my podiatrist (who fitted me with prescription orthotics for walking and running shoes) had no experience with prescription orthotics for figure skates (and I couldn't find another local podiatrist with the proper experience either).

Thank you for your advice!

I am not aware of the fitter (not at my rink) offering (me) rink-side service.

I did get the impression my group teacher indicated my inward curving issue might improve with experience (I have imagined stronger ankles might help).

Thank you for the information about blade repositioning!
Each of my blades is mounted with 6 screws in the sole plate and 3 screws in the heel plate.
I just noticed that the right sole plate is aligned with (touches) the inner edge of the boot sole, whereas on the left boot, there is a gap [of approximately 2 millimeters at its narrowest] between the sole plate and the inner edge of the boot sole - I wonder why they are not the same.

 

[tstop4me]

Each of my blades is mounted with 6 screws in the sole plate and 3 screws in the heel plate.

That's for sure a "permanent mount" not a "temp mount". The fitter should not have done that. A "permanent mount" is not really permanent. It just means that to adjust the blade mount, you will need to remove the four extra screws in the sole plate and the one extra screw in the heel plate and have the five holes permanently plugged afterwards. The whole point of a "temp mount" is to allow you to play around with the blade mount while minimizing the number of holes that need to be plugged.

Given this error, I would definitely check that the blades are straight and that the edges are even.

I just noticed that the right sole plate is aligned with (touches) the inner edge of the boot sole, whereas on the left boot, there is a gap between the sole plate and the inner edge of the boot sole - I wonder why they are not the same

Hard to say. It could be a sign of sloppiness, or it could be simply due to irregularities in the peripheries of the sole. Instead of using the periphery of the sole as a reference for the blade mount, use the longitudinal center line of the boot: from the center of the tip of the toe to the center of the tip of the heel.

 

[tstop4me]

I just noticed that the right sole plate is aligned with (touches) the inner edge of the boot sole, whereas on the left boot, there is a gap between the sole plate and the inner edge of the boot sole - I wonder why they are not the same

<<Emphasis added>> If the sole plate already touches the inner edge of the boot sole, I personally would not move the blade further inwards. Some techs will mount the blade such that the mounting plate (sole or heel) juts out past the boot (sole or heel). But in case of a fall, I wouldn't care to have the edge of a mounting plate dig into the ice. Could get nasty (but that's just my opinion).