Papadakis publishes book; Cizeron challenges claims

[4everchan]

I think it's, "Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach."

Actually, that is quite relevant to sports and explains why a star athlete does not always make a good coach. Everything came so naturally to the star athlete that, when he becomes a coach, he can't understand why his pupils are less talented than he was, or what exactly he is expected to do about it.

but it's indeed an old saying because pedagogy has advanced a lot and there are very efficient tools available for athletes and artists who transfer to mentoring... and of course it's a bit dismissive because there are plenty of wonderful artists/athletes who become great teachers too

 

[TallyT]

A lot of people on this thread seem to have a very dated understanding of mental health problems

The all wounded and offended reactions to being called out I find disingenuous pleading after the fact and depressingly familiar. Go back in the archives, people, go and look at other forums. Every single time a women or women call out abuse in this sport, their mental health is immediately questioned. Every. Single. Time. And it's so often in that paternalistic, Pecksniffian 'I am just thinking of her' tone (which, for the sake of clarity, is no better or more highminded than a straight out attack.)

I will repeat, I am not a fan of either of them... or Fournier Beaudry, or her and Cizeron's bestie Sørensen, they all seem to be rather unpleasant people (or at least, that is how they come off when the pr platitudes get tatty) which is anything but unusual in elite sport, quite the opposite. And I do not know the truth between them all, so am not casting her as the only one with the truth or as skewing things. I am simply fed to the back teeth with that kneejerk "woman speaks out = mental health issues" that people spout every every every time and then try to justify.

I think some just want to enjoy the product without thinking beyond that.

We like the French team, so let's not delve further. We like the Shib sibs, so let's not worry about that tape. We like Kamilla, so let's find excuses for that little problem. And on and on, for years and years.

 

[bramweld]

The all wounded and offended reactions to being called out I find disingenuous pleading after the fact and depressingly familiar. Go back in the archives, people, go and look at other forums. Every single time a women or women call out abuse in this sport, their mental health is immediately questioned. Every. Single. Time. And it's so often in that paternalistic, Pecksniffian 'I am just thinking of her' tone (which, for the sake of clarity, is no better or more highminded than a straight out attack.)

I will repeat, I am not a fan of either of them... or Fournier Beaudry, or her and Cizeron's bestie Sørensen, they all seem to be rather unpleasant people (or at least, that is how they come off when the pr platitudes get tatty) which is anything but unusual in elite sport, quite the opposite. And I do not know the truth between them all, so am not casting her as the only one with the truth or as skewing things. I am simply fed to the back teeth with that kneejerk "woman speaks out = mental health issues" that people spout every every every time and then try to justify.

Given the extreme hate Gabby is experiencing, it's no wonder women think twice about blowing the whistle. Protection is never a realistic expectation. I so wish she had better advisors, because this will end badly. The response from IAM seems calculated to affect Gabby and protect FB/Ciz at all costs. They seem to have no competitors except time itself, if the judges were honest. I guess his pursuit of OG is more important than anything she has to say. Periodt.

 

[NewLook]

No one was booing at Euros, or at least gave a silent greeting. On the contrary, those rape apologists were welcomed nicely, by a mostly female audience. Disgusting.

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

Y'all are missing the obvious choice. Jean-Luc Baker.

If you've seen him on the Peacock practice rink coverage, then you know I'm right.

A number of fans have mentioned Jean-Luc Baker, in this and other threads, as an excellent figure skating commentator (not just for ice dance)! Someone also mentioned here that Jean-Luc already has a contract with Eurosport to cover figure skating in Milano. NBC's and U.S. fans' loss.

 

[Skater Boy]

Hmm, I doubt that Laurence F-B didn't know anything about the conflict between Gabi & Gui prior to partnering with Gui. We have to realize that there's a lot that goes on bts in interpersonal fs relationships that we don't know about. Many of these skaters have known each other since childhood, competing with and/ or against each other.

I get the impression from seeing Laurence competing and speaking at pressers that she's extremely happy and in her element. Far from feeling like she's 'out of the frying pan of scandal and into the fire of more scandal,' she's probably feeling a sense of salvation for her ice dance career. For sure her friends, family, and fans felt sad for her when her career was abruptly ended. When the possibility arose to partner with Gui, it must have felt so exhilarating. I would imagine that they discussed all aspects of launching a career together before a mutual decision was made. Then came the joyful part of exploring what a partnership together would look like and feel like. Thus, if the 'frying pan' analogy is applicable, it's more like 'out of the frying pan of grievous career loss, and into the brilliant fire of ice dance creativity and competition.'

I hope that FB/C will continue together for another year or two at least, if not another quad. Laurence is 33, so she'd be 37 in 2030. Gui is 31, so he'd be 35 in 2030. So, it's likely that they won't continue the full quad, unless they feel physically and creatively fit to do so.

Laurence F-B still must be thrilled that she now has almost guaranteed herself a medal if not gold a the Olympics after "losing" her partner. I mean she was high as fifth with Sorensen but now she is almost guaranteed a medal

 

[bckabck]

But seriously, c'mon. Don't you think that Virtue and/or Moir might have wished misfortune on Davis and White at one time or another? We're not talking a death wish, just "we can't win if they skate clean, so...."

Agreeing with you, and remembering when Davis/White beat Virtue/Moir in competition...Scott snubbed Charlie.

 

[bckabck]

A number of fans have mentioned Jean-Luc Baker, in this and other threads, as an excellent figure skating commentator (not just for ice dance)! Someone also mentioned here that Jean-Luc already has a contract with Eurosport to cover figure skating in Milano. NBC's and U.S. fans' loss.

I didn't really learn anything or care about Gabby's commentating. Listening to her, It was nice having a former ice dancer commentating again with Johnny. Johnny shouldn't commentate ice dance (nor pairs) at all. I do think she did better this season than last season so it could be a learning curve like most commentators.

I do like Jean-Luc Baker but I prefer Ben Agosto when it comes to commentating ice dance. I would love love love to have both of them together. Ben is more technical and looking at skills and cleanliness while Jean-Luc is more about the story and presentation.

 

[ladyjane]

I do like Jean-Luc Baker but I prefer Ben Agosto when it comes to commentating ice dance. I would love love love to have both of them together. Ben is more technical and looking at skills and cleanliness while Jean-Luc is more about the story and presentation.

Totally OT, I know but I like this idea of a technical commentator combined with someone who gets the storytelling.

 

[bckabck]

I haven't read the book, but have read excerpts and what Gabby has said in response to Cizeron's cease and desist.

From what I have read the book really is about Gabby's skating career experience from childhood to adulthood. It's done through her eyes and what she was feeling or happening to her at times. From the excerpts it seems like someone has always been in charge of her life whether she meant to allow it or not. Yes, she did make some big life decisions, but sounds like when she was asked her opinion or what she wanted to do she would adapt the whole "whatever you want" attitude. Once people are allowed to control a person it becomes habit and hard for that person to relinquish that control. I am disappointed in those people she trusted that let her down.

IAM has never been good when handling SA allegations whether concerning Sorensen or even Solene's by Desyatov. (Solene went to Marie when it happened and Marie never reported it as she said she would.)

It does seem like her book is more about a project her therapist/psychologist would recommend to help her heal. Perhaps this book could be useful for sport therapists/psychologists.

 

[bckabck]

Totally OT, I know but I like this idea of a technical commentator combined with someone who gets the storytelling.

Sorry

 

[SmileHappy34]

My two cents. Why would I care about what in book.
As stated publicity for her and her partner. To get attention. For money for both.
Too remind he is a gold medalist. With her.
Hey olympic coming up.
He goid and he doesn't skate with lousy nor pick lousy partners

Hey it working

New partner scores straight top flight. Highest of anyone.
Just got together and Now in line for Olympic Gold. As her book reminding everyone what he has previously. Not looking at skate but medal

 

[TontoK]

Hmm, I doubt that Laurence F-B didn't know anything about the conflict between Gabi & Gui prior to partnering with Gui. We have to realize that there's a lot that goes on bts in interpersonal fs relationships that we don't know about. Many of these skaters have known each other since childhood, competing with and/ or against each other.

On that, we can agree. She walked into this with her eyes wide open.

 

[Chantilly]

I know Gabby has said that the book launch date was decided before Guillaume "announced " his new partnership and their intention to compete at the Olympics, but like mentioned above by another post, these skaters know each other personally. Gabrielle also is close with Madison Hubbell who works for IAM. I'm pretty sure she at least knew Guillaume and Laurence were trying out, and I expect she knew that they were going to compete well before they announced it officially.

Not saying that there was anything nefarious in her book release date. As a former Olympic gold medalist, it makes sense to release a book closer to the Olympics, but not too close, so as to be obscured in the press. I don't know when she actually started writing the book either. And I also think the media did what it always does, which is find juicy, gossipy, click bait quotes to publish.

But I also think she should have expected some push back from Guillaume. I know there is more nuance in the book than the published quotes, but I don't think anyone has said that they were misquotes either.

 

[TontoK]

I know Gabby has said that the book launch date was decided before Guillaume "announced " his new partnership and their intention to compete at the Olympics, but like mentioned above by another post, these skaters know each other personally. Gabrielle also is close with Madison Hubbell who works for IAM. I'm pretty sure she at least knew Guillaume and Laurence were trying out, and I expect she knew that they were going to compete well before they announced it officially.

Not saying that there was anything nefarious in her book release date. As a former Olympic gold medalist, it makes sense to release a book closer to the Olympics, but not too close, so as to be obscured in the press. I don't know when she actually started writing the book either. And I also think the media did what it always does, which is find juicy, gossipy, click bait quotes to publish.

But I also think she should have expected some push back from Guillaume. I know there is more nuance in the book than the published quotes, but I don't think anyone has said that they were misquotes either.

Yes, I can see your logic.

Gabby should have checked with Guillaume on her book release to see when it was most convenient for him.

 

[noskates]

Someone up thread mentioned "extreme hate" that Gabby is receiving. I don't see that at all. I see people empathizing with her and others wishing she hadn't aired her dirty laundry. And then there are others that don't really care one way or another. I do think this is being blown out of proportion. She wrote a book describing her experiences and they definitely weren't all positive to her in her mind. That's her truth! The important thing here is what SHE was feeling! Her partner objected because he remembers it another way. This is not a new scenario. Gabby had a rough time. Cizeron apparently feels like what he did was worth it for the Gold Medal. There is no right or wrong here depending on who you side with. I hope that writing the book was cathartic for her and that she can move on with her life. Clearly Cizeron has!

 

[Vicky458]

I had a feeling something like this was going to happen…a new team in ice dance doesn’t rise to the top in a few short months..it takes years! Yes, he is an amazing skater and has a gold medal to confirm that..however I have never heard of her before and she has never reached the level she is now with any other partner..I do feel that there will be some kind of conflict at the Olympics..unfortunately yet another scenario for the skating community to have to deal with

 

[4everchan]

I had a feeling something like this was going to happen…a new team in ice dance doesn’t rise to the top in a few short months..it takes years! Yes, he is an amazing skater and has a gold medal to confirm that..however I have never heard of her before and she has never reached the level she is now with any other partner..I do feel that there will be some kind of conflict at the Olympics..unfortunately yet another scenario for the skating community to have to deal with

she was top 5 in the world with her previous partner and made GPF twice. She was absolutely not a newcomer. She was held back by a partner weaker than her. She won silver twice at 4CC with her previous partner too.. and nobody in ice dance who is a National Champion from Canada is "unknown".

 

[Arigato]

Someone up thread mentioned "extreme hate" that Gabby is receiving. I don't see that at all. I see people empathizing with her and others wishing she hadn't aired her dirty laundry. And then there are others that don't really care one way or another. I do think this is being blown out of proportion. She wrote a book describing her experiences and they definitely weren't all positive to her in her mind. That's her truth! The important thing here is what SHE was feeling! Her partner objected because he remembers it another way. This is not a new scenario. Gabby had a rough time. Cizeron apparently feels like what he did was worth it for the Gold Medal. There is no right or wrong here depending on who you side with. I hope that writing the book was cathartic for her and that she can move on with her life. Clearly Cizeron has!

I don't know these people personally and neither does anyone else. I do have an opinion on Cizeron - superb skating skills. I watched him skate with Lambiel on Ice Perspectives and it was fantastic stuff. As for the book, what stood out to me was Papadakis describing her mother's behavior not unlike how she was describing her former partner's. Controlling. She never had a voice growing up. Just did what she was told. She also saw Tessa as "perfect" to such a degree, she said she had to become just like Tessa. I suppose others can continue to make this book all about Cizeron, but even Papadakis has come out in recent days to make a point that her book was not written to be called a book about Cizeron. And she's right. It isn't. From what I have read, problems started long before they even met. Everyone has a starting point: Parents. And I can't help but wonder if her mother has any regrets reading what her daughter thought of it all. If anything, I would say this book is a voice finally getting heard since it was not allowed to be heard up until now. She wanted love. She said so. Some of us get it in spades from our parents, some do not. I think she wanted people to see what happens when a kid doesn't get what a kid needs most. I see the book as a cautionary tale. Not an exposé.

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

On that, we can agree. She walked into this with her eyes wide open.

Yeah, it is definitely tough walking into trying to carve out a successful career in figure skating. Or, making a comeback after an abrupt, forced break to one's competitive career. Eyes wide open or not. A tough sport all the way around, made even tougher by all the cultural-related interpersonal issues and conflicts that the sport's handlers absolutely refuse to fully acknowledge, much less do they make any responsible attempt to resolve. It's the elephant in the room. The sport is very good at burying their heads in the sand and pretending that tough human relations and abuse problems do not exist. Far be it for fans being able to resolve anything by sharing divergent opinions on skating forums. It's the sport that is in denial; it's the sport that sought out and supported an unaccountable entity in the useless hope that it could wave a magic wand and make the problems disappear. Meanwhile, that entity has caused further chaos and egregious harm to numerous athletes.

The situation that Papadakis describes, based on the little I have read and seen reported, is very deep-seated. It apparently goes back to her childhood growing up in the sport. I hope she is able to fully heal and to eventually use her voice to try and make the sport face up to and find ways to alleviate and responsibly resolve harmful instances of abuse, and especially to confront and resolve the sport's cultural problem of power imbalances in some male-female partnerships. IMO, feeling whole, healed, and bearing witness while accepting responsibility for one's own choices and life path, is probably necessary before effective advocacy can be pursued.

In regard to FB/C, no one on the Internet has any say over who they or any other skater decides to continue to befriend in their private lives. Who they remain friends with or not has no bearing on resolving instances of abuse that are happening as we speak. Sadly, instances of abuse between humans has existed since the beginning of time and will never be resolved by 'taking sides,' becoming emotionally triggered, or trying to police others on social media. It's much better to donate time and money to organizations that try to help women and people in need at a grass-roots level.

Meanwhile, I thank the skate gods for the wonderful partnership of FB/C that has positively impacted ice dance this season.