Replay Lounge 2026 Olympics | Ice Dance

[TontoK]

Want to know why the US got 2nd instead of 1st on the Rhythm Dance?

I suspect a good bit of that half-point differential can be attributed to the French judge who favored her team by six points.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

I suspect a good bit of that half-point differential can be attributed to the French judge who favored her team by six points.

Who would have won if the French judge scored both teams the same?

 

[TontoK]

Who would have won if the French judge scored both teams the same?

Do you think the French judge scored both teams fairly?

 

[4everchan]

Have you forgotten how Sale and Pellitier wound up with gold medals?

No I haven't. It was a different judging system. And where was the internet mob back then? You cannot compare the two. And as a matter of fact, there was collusion among the judges. It was proven later on.

It was because a steady drumbeat of media coverage and accompanying scrutiny shone a spotlight on shady dealings.

And believe me, there were, and still are, those who don't think they deserved them. FWIW I'm not one of those.

The problem is that the sport still has not fixed these problems that even defenders of the French must concede look pretty shady.

I see other problems too. Before the event, people didn't want the. French to win it... because of you know what. They were painted as villains from the get go.

Six points in the RD and 8 more in the FD... in a final result decided by a point and a half?

This is a very limited use of statistics to paint a particular picture. It doesn't say the full story. The French judge wasn't the only one who thought the French should win. And aside ONE judge (the Canadian who had both teams pretty even but slightly in favour of the French) the other judges in favour of the French did score the French by a larger margin than the judges who preferred the Americans. Also, let's not forget that the Spanish judge had Chock and Bates only in 3rd place. Ouch !

Let me put this in perspective in a way that you'll understand:

I'm thrilled Piper and Paul won their bronze medal. Do you think that would have happened if the British judge was still on the FD panel and Lewis and Lilah had skated that performance as well as they had all year? Or do you think that British judge would have screwed them as badly as I believe the French judge screwed Chock and Bates? And if he had, would you be as deferential to the judging system as you now appear to be?

I don't need to answer hypothetical questions, especially when you are multiplying what ifs

I am not in love with the judging system. I have suggested already that top 5 contenders shouldn't have a judge from their country at the Olympics. I don't have an issue with the scores given to the elements for the free dance. I don't see anything that bad about it.... even the French judge isn't always the highest scorer of her team. She did over score her team in PCS compared to CB. But good luck proving that was cheating. .

Finally, I have read on this forum that the French would have won, even if the French judge hadn't been scoring .... so there's that.

 

[TontoK]

I don't need to answer hypothetical questions, especially when you are multiplying what ifs

Ok, then I'll simplify. Why were you so relieved that the British judge was not drawn for the Free Dance?

 

[4everchan]

I suspect a good bit of that half-point differential can be attributed to the French judge who favored her team by six points.

Actually, the main factor in the RD is the lost level on the pattern step for the Americans, as our former dancer explained here. That was served by the tech panel... not the French judge.

 

[4everchan]

Ok, then I'll simplify. Why were you so relieved that the British judge was not drawn for the Free Dance?

Yes. Guilty. I manifested it. It happened. Sue me for forgetting to manifest the removal of the French judge.

However, here's the catch : the best judge for Piper and Paul in the RD was the German judge. He got replaced. So hypothetically, since you are insisting, Piper and Paul may have lost a few points that the German judge would have given them. So, the judges replacement did get rid of both the top and lowest scorer of Piper and Paul in the RD. Cancels it out.

The reality is that there was no way Lilah and Lewis could have won with any panel with the way they skated. They were not just hammered on their twizzles but they also lost points on levels, including on their opening combo lift. So, it wasn't even just the judge but the tech panel too.

They were nervous. .... hypothetically when they found out that their Nicholas has been replaced (okay... I am being funny here)

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

Do you think the French judge scored both teams fairly?

I mean, I don’t agree with the margin. However, the margin can grow to be substantial little by little through a handful of elements. I remember watching the 2010 Olympics being shocked at Yuma’s SP margin over Mao, but Yuna was a tad better on some elements and the difference ended up being a lot more than I expected.

 

[4everchan]

I mean, I don’t agree with the margin. However, the margin can grow to be substantial little by little through a handful of elements. I remember watching the 2010 Olympics being shocked at Yuma’s SP margin over Mao, but Yuna was a tad better on some elements and the difference ended up being a lot more than I expected.

and that margin includes PCS. That's where I feel that there is a bigger gap... at the same time, I am not surprised about it. Also, the US judge also favoured her own skaters in PCS. She had them up by 1 point. The French judge had hers up by 2.5 points...

 

[TontoK]

Yes. Guilty. I manifested it. It happened. Sue me for forgetting to manifest the removal of the French judge.

However, here's the catch : the best judge for Piper and Paul in the RD was the German judge. He got replaced. So hypothetically, since you are insisting, Piper and Paul may have lost a few points that the German judge would have given them. So, the judges replacement did get rid of both the top and lowest scorer of Piper and Paul in the RD. Cancels it out.

The reality is that there was no way Lilah and Lewis could have won with any panel with the way they skated. They were not just hammered on their twizzles but they also lost points on levels, including on their opening combo lift. So, it wasn't even just the judge but the tech panel too.

They were nervous. .... hypothetically when they found out that their Nicholas has been replaced (okay... I am being funny here)

You're dodging.

You were happy that he was removed because he was playing with the scoring to benefit his team to the detriment of Piper and Paul.

 

[Mathman]

I have suggested already that top 5 contenders shouldn't have a judge from their country at the Olympics. ...

I think that there is a problem with this suggestion. It means that the ISU must prejudge the event and decide who will be the top five before the skating begins.

Plus, what about the skaters vying for placement below the podium. Is it fair to have a judge form Mexico clobber a skater from the Philippians just because neither in the top five?

It would make sense to prohibit judges from every country that has a skater entered -- but then, you wouldn't be able to find enough judges to hold the event.

 

[4everchan]

You're dodging.

You were happy that he was removed because he was playing with the scoring to benefit his team to the detriment of Piper and Paul.

I am not dodging. I have posted enough about Nicholas Russell. I was happy he got replaced. But here's the deal : I have followed Nicholas Russell for a long time. He's often lowballed Piper and Paul. You can look at my posts in the thread about judges allocation for the Olympics

I had two wishes ... no Shawn Restatt on the TP... and no Nicholas Russell. When @Andrea82 posted the judges selected, he even tagged me because he knew I'd be pissed...

So, maybe you have discovered Jezabel just now (that's the name of the French judge) but I have had my share of issues with Nicholas and I was very relieved that for once, he wouldn't be there to ruin it again for Piper and Paul.

I would suggest that you look at how Jezabel has scored Madison and Evan in the past and see if she truly doesn't like them and always lowballs them. I have no idea of her pedigree in that sense.

I will drop the thread and the mike here :

Isn't it ironic that in the end, the team that many fans have called "over-scored" for the last Olympic cycle is suddenly underscored ?

 

[Magill]

I am no fan of FBC for the off-ice reasons and I am one of those who, frankly, would rather see someone else win, with no indication of any specific someone. But this debate is clearly just as biased as the judging allegedly was. Now, look me in the eye and tell me, would the outrage with the scores be even half as wild if the runner-ups were not Americans, but Danes, Spaniards or Japanese? No, it would not. This is waving the national flag just as much as the supposed judges did while looking away when the same thing was happening to the benefit of American skaters. Chock and Bates included.
Sorry to say, but overscoring certain skaters and underscoring their rivals is a daily, though appalling, routine in this sport, and not just in ice dance. Complaints are routinely dismissed as conspiracy theories and mocked as wazrobbed. Whatever happened here was no different than what American judges have been doing for years to support their own. Nothing special,really.,And if you were not vocal against your own judges biased scoring, it is just hypocritical to suddenly demand an investigation when the tables turned.

 

[reneerose]

I miss CDs....

I loved watching these because they were more interesting than the individual compulsories and you could distinctly see the differences in each ice dance pair skating the same pattern steps...

 

[4everchan]

I think that there is a problem with this suggestion. It means that the ISU must prejudge the event and decide who will be the top five before the skating begins.

well . they could go with world standing for instance. There are rankings available... and even starting orders are based on those. So yes, there is a way to remove the top five contenders based on world rankings or seasons' best scores etc prior to the event

Plus, what about the skaters vying for placement below the podium. Is it fair to have a judge form Mexico clobber a skater from the Philippians just because neither in the top five?

It would make sense to prohibit judges from every country that has a skater entered -- but then, you wouldn't be able to find enough judges to hold the event.

the issue is really that. Blocking the top five nations, well it's often those nations who have judges involved.

I have suggested in the past that judges should be ISU judges for real.. Paid. Trained. and on duties for the ISU. Not volunteers tied to a federation.

 

[discodisco]

I disagree.

Hmmm... okay that's fine everybody can have their perspective. I love the fact that I'm like most commentators, including Carol lane, with all her ice dance experience, mark makes tons of references to what makes escators choreography or skills strong. He talks about the use of a rocker transition, or Edge depth, or the complexity of a certain transition move. I feel like I always learn something when I listen to him, and he's one of the very few who actually offer intelligent/ knowledgeable commentary on Ice dance, which is a notoriously nebulous discipline when it comes to understanding the nuances. But again, just my opinion

 

[TontoK]

I am no fan of FBC for the off-ice reasons and I am one of those who, frankly, would rather see someone else win, with no indication of any specific someone. But this debate is clearly just as biased as the judging allegedly was. Now, look me in the eye and tell me, would the outrage with the scores be even half as wild if the runner-ups were not Americans, but Danes, Spaniards or Japanese? No, it would not. This is waving the national flag just as much as the supposed judges did while looking away when the same thing was happening to the benefit of American skaters. Chock and Bates included.
Sorry to say, but overscoring certain skaters and underscoring their rivals is a daily, though appalling, routine in this sport, and not just in ice dance. Complaints are routinely dismissed as conspiracy theories and mocked as wazrobbed. Whatever happened here was no different than what American judges have been doing for years to support their own. Nothing special,really.,And if you were not vocal against your own judges biased scoring, it is just hypocritical to suddenly demand an investigation when the tables turned.

Bull.

I was vocal here complaining about this British judge, and he was actually one of those who scored the Americans high in the RD, especially in comparison to the French.

Oddly enough, Maddie and Evan might have won if the British judge was on the panel, and especially so if the French judge had been replaced instead. And yet, I still wanted him removed.

 

[Magill]

Bull.

I was vocal here complaining about this British judge, and he was actually one of those who scored the Americans high in the RD, especially in comparison to the French.

Oddly enough, Maddie and Evan might have won if the British judge was on the panel, and especially so if the French judge had been replaced instead. And yet, I still wanted him removed.

I was not talking about British judges, lol. I was talking about American judges "supporting" American skaters just the same like the French judge did "support" his own.

 

[el henry]

....

Isn't it ironic that in the end, the team that many fans have called "over-scored" for the last Olympic cycle is suddenly underscored ?

Yes, could it be possibly be that ...wait for it...

They were not in fact over-scored this cycle.

 

[TontoK]

I was not talking about British judges. I was talking about American judges "supporting" American skaters just the same like the French judge did "support" his own.

Actually, you implied that people who are angry about this were just American flag-wavers who wouldn't have cared if the results didn't involve an American team.

Are you forgetting the scores of Americans who were angry about the Sochi women's results? About the Salt Lake pairs results? About the Lillehammer dance results (although I concede that was more sentimental for Torvil and Dean than anything = Usova and Zhulin should have won). Anyway NONE of these involved a legitimate American contender.