Was Yuzuru Hanyu's 2018 Olympic FS his ultimate "clutch" performance?

[Magill]

IMHO iconic has nothing to do with clean skates or errors, TES, scores, and other objective quantifiable factors. Iconic is what is widely admired and loved by the general public as superb, outstanding and better than everything else.
The winner is decided by the judges and they should be expert, objective, unbiased, attentive to details, take it all into account and so on (if they are is another matter but let's leave it here).
Iconic is decided upon by the public that admires this and not care much about that, stubbornly enough to make it valid in long term. And the public does not bother to calculate points, it is in for a storm and loves to be taken for a ride. It may call a "save" iconic and like it better than 5 clean quads, and dgaf. Sue them!
I know, it may be frustrating if you think the popular crown goes to unworthy hands. But tough luck. That's the way it goes.

And the general public loves the Olympic Seimei madly and crowned it the most iconic Olympic program of the recent decades, like it or not. It loves its wild energy, its amazing musicality, its beauty, but also its little imperfections. They add to the tension and the fun reminding everyone how amazing this Olympic win was, what the circumstances were. People love it.
It is the most watched skating video on the Olympic site, and not by an inch, but by a mile to the second place (Savchenko / Massot 2018 OGM), and by a landslide to everyone else (the difference to the third place is more than 21 million views). Hardly a season goes by without a kiddo coming to a rink to compete in an obviously Seimei-inspired costume (Ilia Malinin was one of such kids, btw, remember?). Yuzuru's opening pose is iconic in Japan to the extent that it is used as a cultural reference in movies, music videos and TV shows, having nothing whatsoever to do with skating. It's recognizable, it's a code. It was one of the images projected upon Milano-Cortina ice. Etc etc. Luckily, it is also the gold winning Olympic programme allowing Yuzu to win back to back OGM which no man did in 66 years before him, or ever since.
If that's not iconic, then I don't know what is.

 

[Arigato]

Hanyu HAS legitimately performed Seimei perfectly before... and yeah, I would say his FS performances of Seimei in 2015 NHK/GPF (esp. NHK) can be considered generation-defining/sport-defining....... but his 2018 OWG Seimei FS was neither perfection (objectively speaking) nor was it his most clutch FS/competition.

Compared to PyeonChang, you don't know why. Really?

At the 2015 GPF, he had not sustained all of his potential career-ending injuries yet. Injuries took place in 2017 that led him to w/d from competing in 2017. He's lucky to have made it to the Olympics at all since he wasn't even practicing any quads until a mere two weeks before competing. And he still got the job done at PyeongChang without his ankle being 100%. As I mentioned in my prior post, I find what he did utterly odds-defying.

This is Seimei perfection:



And yet . . . I choose the OLYG performance over this one. It's not always about numbers.

 

[yfan1]

Hanyu's Worlds free in 2017 was an actual example of a clutch performance with harder content (almost 11 points higher base value than his OWG2018 free, with a 4L and two 3As) and he performed it perfectly when he needed it most — would have lost gold had he not been perfect. I get that the Olympics the stakes are higher, but his 2018 Olympic FS I wouldn't even call a "clutch" performance (going by standard definitions of "clutch") let alone his "ultimate clutch performance".

His 2017 win was way more clutch based on actually needing to be perfect to win, and based on the final results he would have lost had he not been perfect.

Yeah I actually agree.

I do think it deserves consideration that Hanyu had a major injury heading into 2018. But I still do think in terms of pure scores and all, 2017 worlds is Hanyu's 'most clutch'.

 

[Magill]

So I got curious and checked it.
According to this study in Psychology of Sport by Schweickle, Vella, Swann from 2022, researching how "clunch performance" is actually defined and perceived by athletes themselves, it seems to conclude that while there is no one agreed upon definition, athletes use self-referenced goal achievement to assess it, and such assessment may be situational or context-related, indicating the best performance under the maximum pressure and taking into account other factors, and not necessarily "the best" in absolute terms., or "most needed" by any external evaluation.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1469029222001066

Going by this, and acknowledging that I don't think Yuzu was ever asked to assess his performances in term of how "clutch" they were, I guess both Worlds and Olympic titles were very important self-referenced goals for him, but I also conclude from many things he said over the years, that the Olympic gold, and specifically two individual OGMs, were by far his most spectacular long-term goal since he was 9. Even more, he was known for it, and he spoke about it in public, which of course was creating self-inflicted pressure on him to achieve it in Pyeongchang.
Let's add to it that
1) it is generally agreed that Olympics is by far the event creating the most pressure on most athletes for too many reasons to discuss here, not least importantly happening only once in 4 years, being most watched, most respected and most commented upon global sport event,
and
2) he was approaching this career-defining event coming off the long-term injury and without enough training, based mostly on mental training, as he could not go on the ice for months,
and
3) forget the rivals and the points cushion from SP, he definitely needed to land quads to win, and he started to practice quads only appx. two weeks before the competition, and of course he knew his ankle was not fully functional yet, and was open about relying on muscle memory and sheer will power to achieve it in the lack of sufficient training and shape,
and
4) he admitted many times that for him it was the most important single moment of his career (and who could doubt it)
I do think we can safely conclude the Olympic Seimei in fact WAS the ultimate clutch performance for him, as per the results of this study.

Taddam!!!

 

[TallyT]

I remember reading one time, Yuzu demurely saying something like "I do like to win with some drama..."

 

[yfan1]

So I got curious and checked it.
According to this study in Psychology of Sport by Schweickle, Vella, Swann from 2022, researching how "clunch performance" is actually defined and perceived by athletes themselves, it seems to conclude that while there is no one agreed upon definition, athletes use self-referenced goal achievement to assess it, and such assessment may be situational or context-related, indicating the best performance under the maximum pressure and taking into account other factors, and not necessarily "the best" in absolute terms., or "most needed" by any external evaluation.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1469029222001066

Going by this, and acknowledging that I don't think Yuzu was ever asked to assess his performances in term of how "clutch" they were, I guess both Worlds and Olympic titles were very important self-referenced goals for him, but I also conclude from many things he said over the years, that the Olympic gold, and specifically two individual OGMs, were by far his most spectacular long-term goal since he was 9. Even more, he was known for it, and he spoke about it in public, which of course was creating self-inflicted pressure on him to achieve it in Pyeongchang.
Let's add to it that
1) it is generally agreed that Olympics is by far the event creating the most pressure on most athletes for too many reasons to discuss here, not least importantly happening only once in 4 years, being most watched, most respected and most commented upon global sport event,
and
2) he was approaching this career-defining event coming off the long-term injury and without enough training, based mostly on mental training, as he could not go on the ice for months,
and
3) forget the rivals and the points cushion from SP, he definitely needed to land quads to win, and he started to practice quads only appx. two weeks before the competition, and of course he knew his ankle was not fully functional yet, and was open about relying on muscle memory and sheer will power to achieve it in the lack of sufficient training and shape,
and
4) he admitted many times that for him it was the most important single moment of his career (and who could doubt it)
I do think we can safely conclude the Olympic Seimei in fact WAS the ultimate clutch performance for him, as per the results of this study.

Taddam!!!

Unfortunately, clutch performance evaluations can also be data-driven, so a single sports psychology paper saying something doesn't amount to much.

 

[Magill]

Unfortunately, clutch performance evaluations can also be data-driven, so a single sports psychology paper saying something doesn't amount to much.

Well, it's a research paper. Any research is data driven, you just may deal with different types of data.
It says there is no one definition agreed upon. Which seems to be very true btw. And at least... it has a source
It is also based on athletes' opinions given to researchers which when speaking about sports can be hardly dismissed or not taken into account.
Surely, more valid than any anonymous poster's opinion, which does not amount to much by itself either
Though anyone and everyone is entitled to theirs, of course.

 

[DizzyFrenchie]

IMHO iconic has nothing to do with clean skates or errors, TES, scores, and other objective quantifiable factors. Iconic is what is widely admired and loved by the general public as superb, outstanding and better than everything else.
The winner is decided by the judges and they should be expert, objective, unbiased, attentive to details, take it all into account and so on (if they are is another matter but let's leave it here).
Iconic is decided upon by the public that admires this and not care much about that, stubbornly enough to make it valid in long term. And the public does not bother to calculate points, it is in for a storm and loves to be taken for a ride. It may call a "save" iconic and like it better than 5 clean quads, and dgaf. Sue them!
I know, it may be frustrating if you think the popular crown goes to unworthy hands. But tough luck. That's the way it goes.

And the general public loves the Olympic Seimei madly and crowned it the most iconic Olympic program of the recent decades, like it or not. It loves its wild energy, its amazing musicality, its beauty, but also its little imperfections. They add to the tension and the fun reminding everyone how amazing this Olympic win was, what the circumstances were. People love it.
It is the most watched skating video on the Olympic site, and not by an inch, but by a mile to the second place (Savchenko / Massot 2018 OGM), and by a landslide to everyone else (the difference to the third place is more than 21 million views). Hardly a season goes by without a kiddo coming to a rink to compete in an obviously Seimei-inspired costume (Ilia Malinin was one of such kids, btw, remember?). Yuzuru's opening pose is iconic in Japan to the extent that it is used as a cultural reference in movies, music videos and TV shows, having nothing whatsoever to do with skating. It's recognizable, it's a code. It was one of the images projected upon Milano-Cortina ice. Etc etc. Luckily, it is also the gold winning Olympic programme allowing Yuzu to win back to back OGM which no man did in 66 years before him, or ever since.
If that's not iconic, then I don't know what is.

Wow, yes, I hadn't checked for a while but while the most viewed of Sports videos on the Olympic Channel is still Usain Bolt's London 100m (also a defending title, with a World Record in-between) with 49.705 million views, Yuzuru Hanyu's Free Skate at PyeongChan is now "only" 1.123 million behind with 48.582 million views, and Aljona Savchenko's and Bruno Massot's Free Skate at PyeongChang are third with 44.776 million views.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

I get that it is clutch in the sense that it was a second gold on the line and he still had to deliver. And he did deliver. But I just don’t consider delivering as synonymous with clutch. Otherwise you could say Chen was clutch to win in 2022 after the 2018 disappointment. Malinin was clutch to beat Sato and win team gold. Shaidorov was clutch to win 2026 when he wasn’t expected to.

The iconic-in-spite-of-injury-equals-clutch argument is a weak/eyeroll-worthy one for me, as skaters skate injured or with mental or physical obstacles/challenges all the time … we just don’t hear about everyone’s trials and tribulations to the same extent, especially since most skaters don’t have every aspect of their health and performance scrutinized, analyzed and continually broadcasted - or apologized for in case they have an off day. If he performed poorly, like clockwork there would always be certain people would turn to the typical, “Is he still injured? Is he newly injured? Was there something wrong with the ice? Is something upsetting him? Maybe it’s the asthma acting up?” Etc. Etc. Etc.

If you come to compete then you’re prepared to compete — and injury (whether past or ongoing) shouldn’t be some safety net in case someone does poorly (“aw they only made errors because they still must not be fully recovered, they’ve only been back on the ice for a short time”) or as a means of aggrandizing/deifying someone if they do perform well (“look at how well they did in spite of injury / in spite of being back on the ice for such a short time!”).

I get the points above about it being a personal goal/comeback etc, but the original post is asking if it was the most clutch ever and for him, his Worlds 2017 was more clutch. And all three other disciplines had gold-winning frees that are objectively more clutch than his. And he has had way cleaner and way more iconic skates in his career.

 

[yfan1]

I think athletes will obviously place Olympic gold winning skates above all others lol. And then the second time and all will obviously count for more. Why it needs to devolve into demanding everyone feel THIS is THE MOST clutch performance of his is... strange.

For me, well I'd never liked that program. I didn't even like the 2015-16 version. It was fine - but definitely not something that showcased his best performance qualities IMO, and I never liked the structure of the program. I am far more of a fan of Hanyu's ability to transmit empathy, vulnerability, softness and do so effortlessly. That's what really set him apart from everyone else, and Hope and Legacy is the program that showcased those qualities. That's what made the 2017 worlds performance so special to me - all that performance quality was present despite being under immense scrutiny and pressure. When you'd be so nervous, and yet you calm yourself down to be exactly in character of that music, and then deliver the feeling well. Seimei's drama in many ways is an aid for nerves. Hope and Legacy, not so much.

People will have different standards to evaluate things, and this is meant to be a discussion. Trying to put a stopper onto that by repeatedly citing someone's popularity or how many views something has... well, it's annoying. If Yuzuru Hanyu is an artist, then well he'd know better than most that art isn't about popularity. Or he should anyway.

 

[DizzyFrenchie]

I think athletes will obviously place Olympic gold winning skates above all others lol. And then the second time and all will obviously count for more. Why it needs to devolve into demanding everyone feel THIS is THE MOST clutch performance of his is... strange.

For me, well I'd never liked that program. I didn't even like the 2015-16 version. It was fine - but definitely not something that showcased his best performance qualities IMO, and I never liked the structure of the program. I am far more of a fan of Hanyu's ability to transmit empathy, vulnerability, softness and do so effortlessly. That's what really set him apart from everyone else, and Hope and Legacy is the program that showcased those qualities. That's what made the 2017 worlds performance so special to me - all that performance quality was present despite being under immense scrutiny and pressure. When you'd be so nervous, and yet you calm yourself down to be exactly in character of that music, and then deliver the feeling well. Seimei's drama in many ways is an aid for nerves. Hope and Legacy, not so much.

People will have different standards to evaluate things, and this is meant to be a discussion. Trying to put a stopper onto that by repeatedly citing someone's popularity or how many views something has... well, it's annoying. If Yuzuru Hanyu is an artist, then well he'd know better than most that art isn't about popularity. Or he should anyway.

But then, Hope & Legacy was his Free Program when his Short Program, Let's Go Crazy, was definitely extremely dynamic, in my opinion it was then the most dynamic Single program ever, here at the same 2017 World Championships (with a little wink at the scoring, if anyone can imagine that he transferred over 50% of his weight between his Quadruple Salchow and his Double Toeloop in the Combination, actually it was about a third):

 

[yfan1]

Were we speaking about short programs? The thread didn't begin with a short program, and everyone speaking in H&L's favour is bringing it up in relation to how he was sitting behind in 5th and managed to win.

 

[Magill]

Trying to put a stopper onto that by repeatedly citing someone's popularity or how many views something has... well, it's annoying. If Yuzuru Hanyu is an artist, then well he'd know better than most that art isn't about popularity. Or he should anyway.

Art may not be about popularity but the iconic status is (and this is one of the qualities we are discussing in this thread).

Here's from Cambridge Dictionary of English: https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/iconic
"Iconic- 1. very famous or popular, especially being considered to represent particular opinions or a particular time:" (--)
3. relating to or characteristic of a famous person or thing that represents something of importance, example: iconic images of people dancing in the streets.

Is says nothing about any objective artistic or athletic quality, about TES, clean skates and number of quads, or a structure of a program. It is about the popular opinion holding sth as "iconic" and being representative of someone or something. So while any one person may not like it, denying an iconic status to Seimei is just.... weird. It is like denying that The Beatles were superstars and Hey Jude is one of the greatest hits of all time. You may not like it, you may even hate it, but it is not about any one person's opinion. It is somewhat factual and, yes, huge numbers of views not decreasing over the years, cultural references and such, simply prove this status. That's why they are brought up here. More mysterious to me is why some people choose to ignore them.

So I will revert the question: any skater may have more than one iconic program, especially a skater regarded by many the greatest of all time.
I know Hope And Legacy has its ardent fans, and especially in its Worlds 2017 version it is considered by many the greatest, most sophisticated, most satisfying program not just of Yuzuru but of all time. It is undoubtedly great, moving and beautiful, and yes, it is considered iconic among many dedicated figure skating fans.
And yet, the Olympic Seimei is considered iconic by more people, because it is way more famous and has much broader appeal. It is, to certain extent, most representative of Yuzu's career because it represent his iconic 2 OGMs and his unique place in the history of the sport. And, yes, it was broadcast live all over the world, made it to the news everywhere, and was such a blast, hard to deny it. It is wildly and widely loved as such. What's wrong with acknowledging it ? It is not about which one is "better" (which is rather subjective anyway).

Loving one does not mean you need to put down the other, you know...

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

I think athletes will obviously place Olympic gold winning skates above all others lol. And then the second time and all will obviously count for more. Why it needs to devolve into demanding everyone feel THIS is THE MOST clutch performance of his is... strange.

For me, well I'd never liked that program. I didn't even like the 2015-16 version. It was fine - but definitely not something that showcased his best performance qualities IMO, and I never liked the structure of the program. I am far more of a fan of Hanyu's ability to transmit empathy, vulnerability, softness and do so effortlessly. That's what really set him apart from everyone else, and Hope and Legacy is the program that showcased those qualities. That's what made the 2017 worlds performance so special to me - all that performance quality was present despite being under immense scrutiny and pressure. When you'd be so nervous, and yet you calm yourself down to be exactly in character of that music, and then deliver the feeling well. Seimei's drama in many ways is an aid for nerves. Hope and Legacy, not so much.

People will have different standards to evaluate things, and this is meant to be a discussion. Trying to put a stopper onto that by repeatedly citing someone's popularity or how many views something has... well, it's annoying. If Yuzuru Hanyu is an artist, then well he'd know better than most that art isn't about popularity. Or he should anyway.

Good points, but I do think its structure was one of the things I liked the most about Seimei, and thought it was perfectly constructed in its music cuts and energy/emotions. Great build to start, elegant and soft calm middle section, and great build and energy to the end that doesn't feel contrived (so many programs have just a wild choreo sequence with fast dramatic music thrown in at the end, where the skater does a crazy burst of energy or histrionics to try to leave a strong final artistic impression). Hanyu sometimes gets noodly/lazy in his arms, but because Seimei is thematically strong and powerful he consistently displayed strength and tension throughout that program (even the slow section). And I know you and others prefer Hope and Legacy but it felt comparatively rather soft and lacking fire and tension, and never gave me the same emotional journey I had from Seimei. Seimei is a very Olympics-friendly program, and while some criticized him for re-using it, I thought it was a very smart, exciting, and well-presented choice of program for the Olympics.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Wow, yes, I hadn't checked for a while but while the most viewed of Sports videos on the Olympic Channel is still Usain Bolt's London 100m (also a defending title, with a World Record in-between) with 49.705 million views, Yuzuru Hanyu's Free Skate at PyeongChan is now "only" 1.123 million behind with 48.582 million views, and Aljona Savchenko's and Bruno Massot's Free Skate at PyeongChang are third with 44.776 million views.

Oh, the "most YouTube views" argument. Claaassic.

TBH, the fact that Savchenko/Massot have amassed that many views in a not-so-distant third, while certainly not having the same, fervent fanbases as Hanyu or Bolt, makes that metric more impressive/notable to me.

 

[yfan1]

Great build to start, elegant and soft calm middle section, and great build and energy to the end that doesn't feel contrived (so many programs have just a wild choreo sequence with fast dramatic music thrown in at the end, where the skater does a crazy burst of energy or histrionics to try to leave a strong final artistic impression).

I think this is a pretty "classic" structure for skating programs, and didn't necessarily feel Seimei did it well.

Actually, since you brought Kim up before, I thought her Les Mis was a much better example of this structure, and it came only 2.5 years before, so quite a modern one too.

About the music cuts, I think therein lies one of the major problems, it seemed pasted together and unnatural to me, and the choreo pandered to it.

Hanyu sometimes gets noodly/lazy in his arms

I think it's true his posture dropped many times, but they used to cover it up well (like, say, letting him look down at the ice during some of the slower/more introspective sections so that it fits the theming, and lets him take a breather). I think his arms worked well whenever he did elements though - be it spins, steps, or jump exits. Jump entries, I guess, not always, but not egregious.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Art may not be about popularity but the iconic status is (and this is one of the qualities we are discussing in this thread).

Here's from Cambridge Dictionary of English: https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/iconic
"Iconic- 1. very famous or popular, especially being considered to represent particular opinions or a particular time:" (--)
3. relating to or characteristic of a famous person or thing that represents something of importance, example: iconic images of people dancing in the streets.

Is says nothing about any objective artistic or athletic quality, about TES, clean skates and number of quads, or a structure of a program. It is about the popular opinion holding sth as "iconic" and being representative of someone or something. So while any one person may not like it, denying an iconic status to Seimei is just.... weird. It is like denying that The Beatles were superstars and Hey Jude is one of the greatest hits of all time. You may not like it, you may even hate it, but it is not about any one person's opinion. It is somewhat factual and, yes, huge numbers of views not decreasing over the years, cultural references and such, simply prove this status. That's why they are brought up here. More mysterious to me is why some people choose to ignore them.

So I will revert the question: any skater may have more than one iconic program, especially a skater regarded by many the greatest of all time.
I know Hope And Legacy has its ardent fans, and especially in its Worlds 2017 version it is considered by many the greatest, most sophisticated, most satisfying program not just of Yuzuru but of all time. It is undoubtedly great, moving and beautiful, and yes, it is considered iconic among many dedicated figure skating fans.
And yet, the Olympic Seimei is considered iconic by more people, because it is way more famous and has much broader appeal. It is, to certain extent, most representative of Yuzu's career because it represent his iconic 2 OGMs and his unique place in the history of the sport. And, yes, it was broadcast live all over the world, made it to the news everywhere, and was such a blast, hard to deny it. It is wildly and widely loved as such. What's wrong with acknowledging it ? It is not about which one is "better" (which is rather subjective anyway).

Loving one does not mean you need to put down the other, you know...

So, I guess Baby Shark is the most iconic thing in the world then, since it has almost 17 billion Youtube views?

And more than 300x as iconic as Seimei, because it's got more than 300 times the views?

 

[DizzyFrenchie]

Were we speaking about short programs? The thread didn't begin with a short program, and everyone speaking in H&L's favour is bringing it up in relation to how he was sitting behind in 5th and managed to win.

Sorry for having been outright implicit instead of explicit. Many Figure Skaters try to balance their Short and Free programs, one with a more energetic feeling, another with a more lyrical feeling (or anything approaching). This way, Seimei was paired with Ballade, while Hope & Legacy was paired with Let's Go Crazy; and Hope & Legacy wouldn't have been very well paired with Ballade?

 

[yfan1]

Art may not be about popularity but the iconic status is (and this is one of the qualities we are discussing in this thread).

I thought we were discussing "clutch performances" foremost.

The big question: Was this the ultimate “clutch” performance in figure skating? Or… was it the complete package—tech + artistry + timing—that made it unbeatable?

Debate it:

• Where does this rank among Olympic performances all-time?
• Would this layout still win under today’s scoring trends?
• Is this Hanyu’s greatest program—or is there a better one?

I do not see where in the list of questions to be debated here it says "is it the most iconic?". I also do not see how anyone else here is "denying" the Olympic skate's status as "iconic", because I believe all of us are saying "we find something else to be better representative of a clutch performance".

It would be good if our posts were viewed with regards to what we were arguing, instead of this strawman argument.

And yet, the Olympic Seimei is considered iconic by more people, because it is way more famous and has much broader appeal.

I do not understand how you (or anyone) could reach this conclusion. In general, a two time Olympic winning skate would be more well known. It does not speak to more appeal in general than anything else.

Loving one does not mean you need to put down the other, you know...

Cool. I do not like Seimei, so have no problem with putting it down.

Well, it's a research paper. Any research is data driven, you just may deal with different types of data.
Surely, more valid than any anonymous poster's opinion, which does not amount to much by itself either

Since you are incapable of civil discussions, and have never shown legitimate interest in debate whenever it comes to the topic of Yuzuru Hanyu, I will be getting rid of your posts from my screen now. You add nothing to my understanding of any topic.

For anyone who is interested in what is meant by "data driven" evaluations, please do google what kind of metrics go into evaluating clutch performances.

So, I guess Baby Shark is the most iconic thing in the world then, since it has almost 17 billion Youtube views?

And more than 300x as iconic as Seimei, because it's got more than 300 times the views?

Or, I suppose, Savchenko/Massot's LP was most iconic, until recently. Using the same logic. And most "clutch" too, given all the trials and tribulations they faced leading upto PyeongChang...

Seven years after PyeongChang concluded their LP was finally overtaken by Yuzuru Hanyu's - and no role was played, I'm sure, by his rise as a celebrity in Japan with various extravagant ice shows earning him larger hordes of fans who all went and watched some of his more visible videos. It must simply have been masses of people who were all familiar with skating and his story at PyeongChang and nothing else there that made it "most iconic" through this metric.

Sorry for having been outright implicit instead of explicit. Many Figure Skaters try to balance their Short and Free programs, one with a more energetic feeling, another with a more lyrical feeling (or anything approaching). This way, Seimei was paired with Ballade, while Hope & Legacy was paired with Let's Go Crazy; and Hope & Legacy wouldn't have been very well paired with Ballade?

I'd not say what Hanyu was displaying in Ballade was "lyrical" or "soft" (opposed to energetic), the centerpiece of that program as it were was supposed to be the step sequence, which in its earliest iterations used to blaze down the rink. It was also paired with POTO, what would you say about such a pairing?

Truth be told, I don't really find value in looking at such "pairings".

 

[Magill]

So, I guess Baby Shark is the most iconic thing in the world then, since it has almost 17 billion Youtube views?

And more than 300x as iconic as Seimei, because it's got more than 300 times the views?

Well, I think you should direct your question to the Cambridge Dictionary, I'm sure they have a Contact Us page.

As to the main question, I don't know Baby Shark so cannot tell much about it specifically. But yes, in general, children stories and other content addressing kids tend to be quite popular, you know. Some are truly iconic, even more so than those designed for adults,. Take Winnie the Pooh, for example, not to look far
Plus children have different watching habits than adults and looove repetitions, so a little bit different viewing ranges, right.
Why looking down to it? You do not appreciate children stories and songs?

And on a more serious note, YouTube views are not the only indicator of popularity, of course, and should be always paired with some other indicators, but they are an indicator and an easy one to check. Especially when "items" belong to the same category and are comparable, like skating videos, all coming from Olympics and all presented on the same Olympic website, all subject to the same view counting policies, search and cheat proof algorithms etc. Excellent material for comparisons, especially in the context of the most iconic Olympic programs.