No.
http://www.sk8stuff.com/f_recog/recog_turns_1_foot.htm
Exactly. A "rocker-choctaw" is a sequence of two separate moves. No one is claiming that they're the same thing. You're misunderstanding the nomenclature.
Where do the names come from?
- Thread starter Tonichelle
- Start date
No.
http://www.sk8stuff.com/f_recog/recog_turns_1_foot.htm
Exactly. A "rocker-choctaw" is a sequence of two separate moves. No one is claiming that they're the same thing. You're misunderstanding the nomenclature.
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2003
What do you mean I misunderstand the nomenclature? Doesn't nomenclature mean terminology? I wrote that I did not understand the terminology since I had never lumped them together. I further explained they are two separate moves. One can combine jumps and spins but combining basics as a single entity is a stretch, and would need new terminology.
see mskater93's post for writing that the Russians use rocker-choctaw as a single entitiy.
.
As I said I do not agree with the Russians, and that was the beginning of this discussion.
A single entity consisting of two separate turns (a rocker immediately followed by a choctaw), each with their own name.
As I understand what mskater93 said was that the Russians call that sequence of two moves by one name, "Jackson" -- they don't use the term "rocker-choctaw."
- Joined
- Oct 22, 2005
Yes, a "Jackson" in Russian terms is a rocker-choctaw (typically like the alternating variety on the Novice MIF test or an end pattern of the current Novice Move #2). It is so called by the Russian coaches at our rink because Don Jackson was the first to do rocker-choctaws on the ice together and made them popular. This coach also teaches a "Rodnina" (which is power stroking with power Mohawks instead of power three turns because Irina Rodnina made these popular with both of her pair partners in the Russian skating schools) and "Hamiltons" (also known as flick turns or quick Mohawks like in the quick step on the Senior MIF test).
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2003
I didn't understand what you understood was what she meant. Had I understood what she meant was what she meand, we could have avoided all this mishmash.
- Joined
- Jun 27, 2003
as in Scott?
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2003
About the rocker + Choctaw combination, this is a good example of the the formidible task that the IJS attempts. Presumeably moves like this are rewarded in skating skills and transitions, and are a big part of why one program is great and another is blah.
But the average viewer has no idea that the skater is doing much of anything at all.
In fact, in television coverage often they don't even show the skaters' feet, so you just see their rear ends waggling back and forth and have to imagine that they are doing cool steps and turns.
But the average viewer has no idea that the skater is doing much of anything at all.
In fact, in television coverage often they don't even show the skaters' feet, so you just see their rear ends waggling back and forth and have to imagine that they are doing cool steps and turns.
- Joined
- Jun 27, 2003
I miss CBS, they used to show a full body shot during the actual program, and close ups of the feet or upper body in the replay.
- Joined
- Oct 22, 2005
Yep, as in Scott.
Thanks for the explanations, mskater93.
You're quite welcome. You can imagine how confused we all were when he showed up with his own nomenclature! LOL! He IS a good coach, though, from a technical standpoint as he's had skaters at Nationals at all level and doing 3+3 combos plus at Worlds representing a variety of countries.
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- Joined
- Jul 11, 2003
thanks for your explanation. It would have saved time earlier if you had written this sooner. So these terms are not real basic terms but a combo of basic terms and most likely not written in any official document except for this Novice test. Am I correct?
Power Mohawks and Power Threes. Umm. Not in any official doc, yes?
I'm not sure I follow those Mohawks in the Quick Step. I would say they are choctaws, but it's been a hundred years since I took to the ice.
- Joined
- Feb 5, 2004
I think that's where ice dancing can be more of a closed book than the rest of disciplines. I never really bothered watching ice dance until i took up skating myself and actually then appreciate what was being done on the ice. I'm fairly sure that the damara guys for dance are told that the feet are the most important thing since they often bob the camera down as teh ice dancers go into a corner (or switch cameras).
Robin Cousins once said it's very difficult to commentate on ice dancing (presumably since he is a singles skater) because in singles you can see if they do the jump or they don't - if they do the spin or don't, whereas you can't say that the ice dancers do the edge or they don't!
Ant
- Joined
- Feb 5, 2004
I think I would say if they are on a test and described in that way then that is pretty official! How more official can you get then - it's on the test!
Ant
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2003
^^^
I have never heard of Power Mohawks or Power Threes. Can you define them? and show an official document of them.
What I would like to know is it a choctaw (I think so) or a mohawk in the Quick Step?
I have never heard of Power Mohawks or Power Threes. Can you define them? and show an official document of them.
What I would like to know is it a choctaw (I think so) or a mohawk in the Quick Step?
- Joined
- Feb 5, 2004
I would recommend that you look on the USFA site at the various test levels - there are documents showing the pattern on the ice and often there are videos of skaters performing the moves to help understanding.
I assume the same documents are available for ice dances too.
Ant
- Joined
- Oct 22, 2005
The forward power three pattern is on the Preliminary MIF test. This coach replaced the three turn with a Mohawk as a warm up exercise and called it a "Rodnina". His coach back in Russia called it the same thing.
Unfortunately, there isn't one easy place online to find the patterns or videos of the standard US moves in the field tests.
This link will give you links to all the test forms, which give you the names of the moves and verbal descriptions:
http://www.usfigureskating.org/membernews.asp?id=248&sid=20822
If you want to find all the patterns, you'd have to hunt for some website that happens to have them posted.
Or buy a rulebook.
The forms for the dance tests at the link above do include patterns.
This link includes videos of the moves that are on the adult versions of the tests:
http://www.usfigureskating.org/Programs.asp?id=316
On the four adult tests, they incorporate moves from the first five standard tests, so most but not all of the prepreliminary through intermediate moves are included, and they're grouped differently than on the standard tests. There's one move that exists only on an adult test and not on any of the standard tests.
None of the novice, junior, or senior moves are at that link.
You could search youtube or elsewhere online for "novice moves in the field" or the name of a specific move, etc. What you would most likely find is regular kids showing off the current state of their skating progress. Don't expect them to look like elite skaters.
Keep in mind also that abbreviations and colloquialisms within the skating community are also common.
The last test on the senior moves in the field test is officially known as the Quick Edge Step. Basically, it's a fairly complex circular step sequence to be performed in both directions and contains at least one of all the different kinds of turns, including choctaws. Like mskater93, many skaters, coaches, judges, etc. refer to it casually as the senior quick step. It is not the same pattern as the compulsory dance known as the Quickstep (which also contains choctaws).
If you really want to know about the nitty-gritty details of skating technique, you'd need to spend time in rinks, watching practice sessions and test sessions or better yet getting on the ice and doing it yourself.
Many skating clubs would not be happy about strangers just showing up and watching the kids, and if you don't already know what's what, you won't learn the names of the moves or which moves go with which tests.
This kind of information is not a secret, but it's an oral tradition -- information more easily shared in person, with demonstrations on the ice, than in writing. More accessible to participants than to observers.
So if you're really interested, participate. Take lessons and ask your instructor to demonstrate some advanced moves you can't do yourself yet but that you want learn to recognize. Contact the nearest club and offer to volunteer as a monitor at their next test session or club competition.
This link will give you links to all the test forms, which give you the names of the moves and verbal descriptions:
http://www.usfigureskating.org/membernews.asp?id=248&sid=20822
If you want to find all the patterns, you'd have to hunt for some website that happens to have them posted.
Or buy a rulebook.
The forms for the dance tests at the link above do include patterns.
This link includes videos of the moves that are on the adult versions of the tests:
http://www.usfigureskating.org/Programs.asp?id=316
On the four adult tests, they incorporate moves from the first five standard tests, so most but not all of the prepreliminary through intermediate moves are included, and they're grouped differently than on the standard tests. There's one move that exists only on an adult test and not on any of the standard tests.
None of the novice, junior, or senior moves are at that link.
You could search youtube or elsewhere online for "novice moves in the field" or the name of a specific move, etc. What you would most likely find is regular kids showing off the current state of their skating progress. Don't expect them to look like elite skaters.
Keep in mind also that abbreviations and colloquialisms within the skating community are also common.
The last test on the senior moves in the field test is officially known as the Quick Edge Step. Basically, it's a fairly complex circular step sequence to be performed in both directions and contains at least one of all the different kinds of turns, including choctaws. Like mskater93, many skaters, coaches, judges, etc. refer to it casually as the senior quick step. It is not the same pattern as the compulsory dance known as the Quickstep (which also contains choctaws).
If you really want to know about the nitty-gritty details of skating technique, you'd need to spend time in rinks, watching practice sessions and test sessions or better yet getting on the ice and doing it yourself.
Many skating clubs would not be happy about strangers just showing up and watching the kids, and if you don't already know what's what, you won't learn the names of the moves or which moves go with which tests.
This kind of information is not a secret, but it's an oral tradition -- information more easily shared in person, with demonstrations on the ice, than in writing. More accessible to participants than to observers.
So if you're really interested, participate. Take lessons and ask your instructor to demonstrate some advanced moves you can't do yourself yet but that you want learn to recognize. Contact the nearest club and offer to volunteer as a monitor at their next test session or club competition.
