Free Dance

[cassieandcheetah]

I agree with you. D/W have definitely brought the goods this season and really impressed me, but I'm not sure it's their time yet. Yes, they beat V/M here, and rightly so. I think that V/M's free dance was already leaps and bounds better than it was at Nationals just two weeks ago. That "Look Mom, No Hands!" lift is 1000 times better than it was at nationals! It was downright scary two weeks ago, but flawless yesterday! I think that they will have improved that free dance exponentially by the time tht Worlds rolls around. Will they be 100%? I don't know, but they'll be close. I really want to see a competition between the two Pink Floyds!!

I disagree completely. I think Tessa's injury may make it slightly easier for the judges (in canada) to bring them down, but regardless of her health I think D/W have the better programs and skills this year. Even if they had skated the pink floyd flawlessly I would have given D/W the edge because it felt more organic and emotionally compelling and it doesn't have that franatic element after element feel that I feel like is V/M's program this year.

Here's a quote from the goldenskate article:

"However, Virtue and Moir's Pink Floyd program shows great promise, and could be a signature piece for them if they are able to skate up to its potential. The lifts in particular are crowd-pleasers, and earned the silver medalists crucial bonus points in Grades of Execution (GOE). For now, however, the program was somewhat frantic and sloppy in spots."

Since when were V/M known for their lifts? Sure, they were gorgeous, but the actually dancing/skating they did in between were sloppy thrown-in's or fillers at best. I just don't enjoy their skating as much any more now that their focus seems to have been shifted to the acrobatics.

 

[skatingbc]

I disagree completely. I think Tessa's injury may make it slightly easier for the judges (in canada) to bring them down, but regardless of her health I think D/W have the better programs and skills this year. Even if they had skated the pink floyd flawlessly I would have given D/W the edge because it felt more organic and emotionally compelling and it doesn't have that franatic element after element feel that I feel like is V/M's program this year.

Here's a quote from the goldenskate article:

"However, Virtue and Moir's Pink Floyd program shows great promise, and could be a signature piece for them if they are able to skate up to its potential. The lifts in particular are crowd-pleasers, and earned the silver medalists crucial bonus points in Grades of Execution (GOE). For now, however, the program was somewhat frantic and sloppy in spots."

Since when were V/M known for their lifts? Sure, they were gorgeous, but the actually dancing/skating they did in between were sloppy thrown-in's or fillers at best. I just don't enjoy their skating as much any more now that their focus seems to have been shifted to the acrobatics.

I think right now, it's hard to compare the two. D/W have had the whole season to work on their program and make the necessary changes. V/M had only had a few complete run-throughs of their free dance before Nationals two weeks ago. If you take that into consideration, their free dance is pretty darn good. I agree with you that parts look a bit frantic and sloppy. I think this is mostly due to the fact that they haven't had the oppurtunity to train it as much as they want to. I would have loved to have seen what D/W's free dance looked like in the middle of the summer, because that would probably make them about on par with where V/M are now.

Also, they've only performed their program three times and none of them have been flawless so it's a bit hard to say if they were flawless I would have still prefered D/W. Unless you just don't like V/M at all, which is fair enough, how can you assume that you wouldn't also like their performance. Personally I like both programs. I thought that D/W had a more emotional performance, but I also think that if you give V/M time, they will achieve this as well, no doubt in my mind.

I don't recall anyone stating that V/M were known for their lifts, just that they were better than at Nats and enjoyable.

 

[npa]

I think that all innovated programs in ice dance seldom bring success, because more simple music and dances, like Carmen, Samson and Dalila, Swan Lake is more understanding for audience, judges. Even Delobel-SHonfelder win there first World title with more simple theme, than they had before.
I think for Tessa and Scott it will be greate experience - to try doing something really new, innovated, bring to ice dance some new choreo, new lifts. If they could bring all this to audience and judges at WCh - kudos to them. If no - they could skate something more classic, simple, with simple lifts, like a lot off ice dance teams. I think if they take something like Samson and Dalila in the next season they could show this better, then another teams.
In all cases they tried create something new - greate!
But at this point i want more, than Tessa start walk without pain. Maybe they must waite some time for this

 

[lmarie086]

I think that in a fairly judged Worlds, D/W at this point will need other teams to have serious problems just to medal, let alone win. They're a good team but there are others who are better at this point, IMO.

The best way to figure this out is to look at what happened last year and try to figure the likelihood of D/W being able to do better than the team in question, assuming nobody makes major mistakes. So:
1. Del/Schoe: not a chance, unless Isabel doesn't recover from her surgery in time.
2. V/M: D/W just proved they can do it, but V/M were not near 100% at 4CC. So this would depend on what kind of shape they'll be in next month. If they're healthy - I can't see D/W finishing ahead.
3. K/N: absolutely not.
4. B/A: possible, but not likely.
5. F/S: definitely possible, and quite likely.

On the other hand, if Dom/Shab are there, you have to figure the judges will score them higher than D/W (even if many fans feel otherwise). Also, the two teams that finished right behind D/W last year are doing very well - P/B have improved since their disappointing performance at Skate Canada and have a very strong FD, and John and Sinead are finally getting some love from the judges.

So I think that realistically, D/W could finish anywhere from 4th the 7th - and might be able to contend for the bronze, but not unless others do badly.

You raise a lot of good points. Even as a huge fan of theirs, I'm not sure they'll make the podium just yet. They're a very strong team with room for improvement in certain areas. Once that happens, they'll definitely be regular contenders for the World podium IMO. Also, I would prefer for them not to rise too quickly. This has definitely been a breakthrough season for them but like I said, I'd prefer to see certain things improved first. I don't want what happend to Belbin/Agosto (rising so quickly and then stagnating) to happen to them.

I would LOVE to see the Kerrs on the podium. More than any other team, I want them on it. I could see Davis/White finishing ahead of Belbin/Agosto and Faiella/Scali, and unfortunately I don't think we'll see DomShabs at Worlds. IMO, they really should have just taken this season off, or maybe even last season.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Well, D/W did have the more schmaltzie music and that is a winner regardless of how well the skating was performed.

Watch! Sam and Dee will be the new warhorse music next year escpecially in Pairs.

 

[Tesla]

Actually, I think D/W's program is more passionate than schmaltzy. I really like it. It is quite different from Eleanor Rigby which I loved.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Actually, I think D/W's program is more passionate than schmaltzy. I really like it. It is quite different from Eleanor Rigby which I loved.

Nothing wrong with opinions.

 

[yelyoh]

So Joe you are saying D&W won because of their music choice? That's it? Nothing else mattered? Please.

 

[Medusa]

So Joe you are saying D&W won because of their music choice? That's it? Nothing else mattered? Please.

Actually, the German Eurosport commentators said something similar during the free dance at Europeans. They said that it's often easier to skate to flashy, well-known music - and that it brings more points, because somehow the judges are influenced by the audience reaction to the music, by their own feelings towards the music... And the commentators would love it if more subtle performances would earn as many points as the flashy warhorse programs. Doesn't mean the commentators are right though, they said some crazy stuff since I started watching / listening to them on Eurosport.

 

[amateur]

Since when were V/M known for their lifts? Sure, they were gorgeous, but the actually dancing/skating they did in between were sloppy thrown-in's or fillers at best. I just don't enjoy their skating as much any more now that their focus seems to have been shifted to the acrobatics.

I rather doubt that V/M's "focus has shifted to acrobatics", as if that is their new permanent intention... Isn't it likely that the lifts have been easier to work on for them this season, given Tessa's condition?

 

[Bruin714]

This is exciting for ice dancing. In the pre-COP days, after four continents, you can predict with certainty the entire podium at worlds, but now no one's sure.

We have three North American teams and three Europeans that all have a legitimate chance of medaling at Worlds.

North Americans
B&A
D&W
V&M

Europeans
D&S
D&S
K&N

And only 5 get to skate in the final flight. Assuming all teams compete, which team will be left out of the final flight based on their CD & OD?

 

[cassieandcheetah]

Well, D/W did have the more schmaltzie music and that is a winner regardless of how well the skating was performed.

Watch! Sam and Dee will be the new warhorse music next year escpecially in Pairs.

Oh please, you're being a little harsh here again Joe. I know you're not a fan of Charlie white, but still. I don't remember you giving them much credit for skating to Elinor Rigby, definitely a difficult music choice. Also, I laud D/W for choosing Samson and Delilah because it's a delicate piece of music (the first half) and to adapt their fast, powerful style to something more subtle like this, they were really putting themselves on the line here.

also, if less schmaltz puts you at a disadvantage in terms of emotional impact, how about Del and Schoe's Great Gig in the Sky? That's probably the most emotionally powerful program out there this season and it's been very well received up until Isabelle's injury. I think it definitely has to do with the way a team approaches the music, and I think v/M's approach to their pink flloyd is too mechanical.

 

[skatingbc]

Oh please, how about Del and Schoe's Great Gig in the Sky? That's probably the most emotionally powerful program out there this season and it's been very well received up until Isabelle's injury. I think it definitely has to do with the way a team approaches the music, and I think v/M's approach to their pink flloyd is too mechanical.

I think V/M's Pink Floyd might seem like that right now because of their limited training time. I'm sure DelShoes FD looked like that in the summer before it was unveiled as well. I can't wait to see both of their programs at Worlds! I was alos wondering, does anyone think that V/M will keep this program for next season as well?

 

[rosee]

I think v/M's approach to their pink flloyd is too mechanical.

I think you found the right word to describe my feelings for V&M this year. When I watched their OD I found the lift so mechanical. They've kind of lost the "esthetic" side on the lifts.

I was alos wondering, does anyone think that V/M will keep this program for next season as well?

No...I think that they'll do something romantic-ish for Olys. Or maybe latin.

 

[victoria90]

I think V/M's Pink Floyd might seem like that right now because of their limited training time. I'm sure DelShoes FD looked like that in the summer before it was unveiled as well. I can't wait to see both of their programs at Worlds! I was alos wondering, does anyone think that V/M will keep this program for next season as well?

I think it depends on how good they do at Worlds and what score they get there. It would be a little risky to keep this FD without knowing its...hmmm... let's call it "real" score and not go for a safer call (romantic kind of style) since it's the Olympic season.
I still think this FD has a lot of potential, though. This was way better than nationals despite the few stumbles here and there, so we'll have to wait and see how it develops.

 

[npa]

also, if less schmaltz puts you at a disadvantage in terms of emotional impact, how about Del and Schoe's Great Gig in the Sky? That's probably the most emotionally powerful program out there this season and it's been very well received up until Isabelle's injury. I think it definitely has to do with the way a team approaches the music, and I think v/M's approach to their pink flloyd is too mechanical.

Maybe you are right. I think is most easy program what i saw frm Del/Sh during past 5 years.
As for emotions and power- sorry, but D/Sh in there age and there experience couldnt skate without emotions - if they skate without emotions maybe they need stop skating at all.
For V/M its something new, its new experience -and they show some interetsing and new transitions and lifts, wich we never saw before. This program need a lot, a lot off work, only then we could see - could they skate in modern style or no

 

[npa]

I think it depends on how good they do at Worlds and what score they get there. It would be a little risky to keep this FD without knowing its...hmmm... let's call it "real" score and not go for a safer call (romantic kind of style) since it's the Olympic season.

All want from them new style- they will show. Now all start talking about romantic style
I think we dont know- could they skate at WCh or no, because she is not a good chape now. If no - maybe they will skate this FD at OG

 

[rosee]

As for emotions and power- sorry, but D/Sh in there age and there experience couldnt skate without emotions - if they skate without emotions maybe they need stop skating at all.

Just to be sure, are you saying that D&S at their age still skate without emotion and should quit skating?

 

[npa]

Just to be sure, are you saying that D&S at their age still skate without emotion and should quit skating?

No, no... I want to say, that in there age they couldnt skate without emotions

 

[rosee]

No, no... I want to say, that in there age they couldnt skate without emotions

So you're saying that at their age it's normal to skate with emotions?