Caroline Zhang's 2009-10 season

[Tinymavy15]

I think Caroline is the most popular because she was the "original." When she skated as a junior in 2007 she had swept the GP circut (on the junior level) and was even more flexible than the retired Sasha. She promised to be the next sasha--something we very baldy needed at that time. Mirai wound up winning the event, but she was an underdog most of us ever heard of. Sure she was flexible as well, but Caroline was the original. She competed as a senior a whole year before Mirari did, so we have had more expose to Caroline on the whole. Dispite Mirai being national champion, I still think more people recognize Caroline's name.

 

[janetfan]

As for why she's a popular skater, hmm. She had a lot of "wow" moves at a young age, and she has an innate musicality and grace that shone through a masterpeice of an exhibition program (You Raise Me Up) at age 13. You just felt like she had so much to give, and it is only a matter of time before that rising star really shines. Plus her slightly fragile disposition that someone mentioned, it makes you really want to root for her. I also find her endearing, she's growing up in our eyes, and I for one can relate to the excitement and angst of her teenage years.

Thanks for such interesting posts the last couple of days feraina.
I just wanted to say that I relate to fans younger than me watching Caroline grow up because I remember seeing Michelle grow up. I became a Michelle fan when she was 13 - which is how old Caroline was when I first saw her.

There is something special about watching a skater you like grow up as you follow their career. It is one of the reason's Michelle has so many fiercely loyal fans. We watched her mature into a wonderful young lady and as skating fans we felt a connection to her that was special - and just as strong in victory or defeat.

 

[feraina]

Thanks for such interesting posts the last couple of days feraina.
I just wanted to say that I relate to fans younger than me watching Caroline grow up because I remember seeing Michelle grow up. I became a Michelle fan when she was 13 - which is how old Caroline was when I first saw her.

There is something special about watching a skater you like grow up as you follow their career. It is one of the reason's Michelle has so many fiercely loyal fans. We watched her mature into a wonderful young lady and as skating fans we felt a connection to her that was special - and just as strong in victory or defeat.

Haha! I'm a little bit older than Michelle, but inside sometimes I still feel like a teenager.

 

[feraina]

Man, I like Caroline and I'd love to see her make the team. But this thread is getting soo annoying. No other opinion than Caroline is the best US lady, the uncrowned top US lady, the USFSA hates her, she gets screwed at Nationals seems to be allowed.

Nobody here is saying she's a shoe-in for OGM or even National's gold. Her fans are naturally among the more optimistic of her prospect (or you wouldn't be her fan probably). It's natural that Caroline fans want to talk about their favorite skater in a thread dedicated to her. Duh.

There is another thread dedicated to Rachael where one can discuss Rachael to their heart's content. There were also threads for Mirai and Alissa. Don't know where they all went, but I know we had some over the last months.

 

[Alicja]

I just wanted to post some thoughts. I guess I'm alone with this but here we go.

As you've probably already noticed I'm not a big fan of flexibility in terms of acrobatic moves or contortions etc. So while I'm impressed with things like Caroline's pearl spin I'm certainly not watching her because of it. I'm sure many people do for exactly that reason.

But what I admired with this girl is her seeming tendency to perfection. Not perfection concerning skating skills and jumping technique, this has been discussed much and we all know it, but perfection for what she knows she can do.
She really seems to be a perfectionist and that may be hard for her. Sometimes she seems to try so hard to do her best that she's almost too focused. At least to show any other emotions than concentration before an element and relief after completing it. But exactly this is something very admirable that, I think, will serve her well in future. She'll need to allow herself some more freedom but when she does it'll be in a controlled way which is essential to deliver a not only artistically but also technically strong performance.

I think her approach for this coming season might turn out to be really good. Assuming that she'll use faster, more dramatic sections of Zigeunerweisen, in the SP she'll challenge herself. As Zigeunerweisen's success will depend on interpretation, choreography, character. It is not the type of music that asks for wow-moves, it asks for dedication to phrasing, themes etc. and interpretation of those.
The Nutcracker, though, I'm not particularly fond of it, will give her the opportunities to let her attention-grabbing qualities aka split spiral, maybe charlotte and the pearl spin shine. She could add in some 'balletic'(for lack of a better word) moves which will make this nice program to watch, even if she might not yet be ready to give attention to expression for the entire 4 minutes of a long program.

Maybe this is the magic formula. Quite a few skaters, including Rachael and Mirai seems to try a similar approach.

 

[Alicja]

Nobody here is saying she's a shoe-in for OGM or even National's gold. Her fans are naturally among the more optimistic of her prospect (or you wouldn't be her fan probably). It's natural that Caroline fans want to talk about their favorite skater in a thread dedicated to her. Duh.

There is another thread dedicated to Rachael where one can discuss Rachael to their heart's content. There were also threads for Mirai and Alissa. Don't know where they all went, but I know we had some over the last months.

Yeah, I know we had threads on them and these are probably on page 3 or 4 now. And apparently I had no real interest in keeping them alive otherwise I'd have posted there, not here.
In any case, you should have taken my post with a grain of salt. If this wasn't obvious, I apologize for not expressing it unequivocally.
Overall, the intention of my post was to maybe take a step back, put everything into perspective. You can be a fan and still crisitsize one or the other thing. You can be a fan of many skaters simultaneously. But, you know, there's this tendency that skaters who're excessively praised, hyped by fans, get lots of haters, just because people cannot stand hearing/reading how glorious, matchless and imitable that particular skater is. We do not want that, do we?

 

[feraina]

I just wanted to post some thoughts. I guess I'm alone with this but here we go.
As you've probably already noticed I'm not a big fan of flexibility in terms of acrobatic moves or contortions etc. So while I'm impressed with things like Caroline's pearl spin I'm certainly not watching her because of it. I'm sure many people do for exactly that reason.

Actually I'm not Caroline's fan because of her flexibility either. I like her for a lot of reasons, many of which I've already detailed before, flexibility is not on top of my list. What I liked a lot about her skating was her innovativeness in terms of creating new spins and spiral positions. It's so refreshing to see these novel and elegant moves (though doubtlessly flexibility gives her more possibilities with new positions). But for a long while now she has used the same technical layout. She still experiments with spins in her exhibitions, but not in her competitive programs anymore. That's a shame, though perhaps understandable given how demanding COP is.

But on the other hand, Michelle wasn't creating any new elements toward the end of her career, in fact she dropped many, like the camel in both directions, and the Charlotte spiral -- but she still had this magical ability to create a story with the music+skating and enchant the viewers. I think this is what Caroline really needs more of. I hope she gets lots of mentoring from Michelle in respect!

I can see how gushing over one skater might turn others off, but first, if they come to this thread, they should probably expect it. And second, I do think that Caroline has an unusual number of fans who adore her despite openly admitting all her imperfections -- myself included. I rarely hear a Mao fan say they wish she were more expressive, or a Yu-na fan say they wish she had better extension and lines, or a Joannie fan say they wish she skated with more subtle expressive power, etc. I'm talking about a skater's most devoted fans, not her critics. But if you look at this thread, everyone talks about Caroline's flaws, even PolymerBob admits that she has an ugly mule kick.

 

[Spun Silver]

It's not the flexibility for me either. It was the combination of her seeming to conquer the skating world at age 14 and her ability to create beauty. I don't know if she's musical exactly but she sure is capable of mesmerizing audiences. At her best (usually exhibitions these days) she casts a spell. (At her worst, she's self-consciously adorable in a way that totally annoys me.)

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Not sure which three you mean but I believe Miki, Joannie and Carolina are all in their 20's. Mao and Yuna both turn 19 in a couple of weeks. Caroline just turned 16. I think if her growth spurt is over she can work hard and go forward into this season and with an eye on 2014.

I am one to think that Mao and YuNa , and I add Joannie moreso than Miki as the 3 top competitor skaters. They will be the most difficult to win over by any other female skater. Adding Miki just makes it all that more difficult.

However, I do see a lot of beauty in Caroline's presentation to make her special for 2014. I think the forthcoming GPs will tell us more about her chances in 2010. She has a rough road to travel there. I think I can see beyond the medals if a skater is tops or not. The GPs are fine with me.

 

[Mathman]

I think it is a mistake to try to guess what might happen in 2014. Chances are Caroline, Rachael, Ashley, Mirai and this generation of Olympic hopefuls will be out of skating by then and it will be some young kid that we haven't heard of yet.

If we look at the last several ladies gold medalists, and go back four years...

Arakawa did not make the team for Worlds.

Hughes had never competed internationally as a senior or junior

Lipinski had never competed internationally at any level.

Baiul had never competed internationally at any level.

Yamaguchi won junior worlds but had not yet competed as a senior.

If this pattern continues, and if we want to make a prediction about who will be ready to roll in Sochi, look to the novices. As for Caroline, carpe diem.

 

[janetfan]

I think it is a mistake to try to guess what might happen in 2014. Chances are Caroline, Rachael, Ashley, Mirai and this generation of Olympic hopefuls will be out of skating by then and it will be some young kid that we haven't heard of yet.

If this pattern continues, and if we want to make a prediction about who will be ready to roll in Sochi, look to the novices. As for Caroline, carpe diem.

Good points but I can't ever recall a skater going through such a growth spurt and being at their best, let alone their peak level the following season. I feel the same way about Mirai. If either of these two girls hit their best this season it would be kind of disappointing to me. I say that hoping they will reach higher levels in 2-3 years. I dont belive either one of them has fully adjusted to the growth spurt in such a short time and that is why I don't see what the "seize the moment" means.Seize a moment of mediocrity perhaps? A 5th or 6th place finish in Vancouver? I expect more even if it takes another season or two to get there.
Caroline might surprise us this season - but part of me knows she couldn't have raised her skating skills and fixed her jumps in a few months. If she has stopped growing she can now re-invent her jumping style and learn to use her new height/strength to skater faster.

As Joe said, there might be too many senior ladies ahead of our younger girls for them to be podium challengers in Vancouver. The more realistic outlook for Caroline is to make the adjustmenst this season and then begin her quest for Wolrd medals starting in 2011. I hope she doesn't spend another season reinforcing her "juvenile" jumping technique. If she does i doubt if she will ever be able to change it.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

^^^
I think 20 years of age is usually the time for the Ladies to decide to continue or not if they still see the Olympic gold medal as the ultimate win. For the Men, I would say 24 is the age of decision..

The List you provided all have good reasons not to continue:

Arakawa - With Mao in the near distance? Why cancel out what was already won?

Hughe's expression and arms in right angles say it all. That's it. Why try again?

Lipinski did skate a few Worlds but she couldn't sustain the injury much longer.

Baiul - I believe was the poor waif which the hype kept reminding us, and so going pro meant no more being a waif. Besides Irina was the big one for the next Olys.

Kat would be more interesting to discuss than Kristi, imo.

If you've ever skated competitions, you will know when to stop. There is no truth in I love to compete. There is, though, unsettled business to attend to

The bigger question here is whether or not the Asian winner of 2010 will hang around as Kat did. In the meantime, Caroline may well be confirmed as being a renowned skater in 2014 and Rachael may be crowned a tough competitior.

Checking out real Juniors and not Junior/Seniors may tell you that there is someone special coming up, but I think experience will be with Caroline and Rachael (and also Akiko).

 

[janetfan]

^^^
I think 20 years of age is usually the time for the Ladies to decide to continue or not if they still see the Olympic gold medal as the ultimate win. For the Men, I would say 24 is the age of decision..


The bigger question here is whether or not the Asian winner of 2010 will hang around as Kat did. In the meantime, Caroline may well be confirmed as being a renowned skater in 2014 and Rachael may be crowned a tough competitior.

Checking out real Juniors and not Junior/Seniors may tell you that there is someone special coming up, but I think experience will be with Caroline and Rachael (and also Akiko).

What about Mirai? Sure she was disappointing last season - but she was injured and grew quite a bit. She and Caroline are close to the same age and a year younger than Rachael. You don't see Mirai in the mix with Caroline and Rachael?

 

[R.D.]

The list of American ladies I would
count out:

 

[Tinymavy15]

The list of American ladies I would
count out:

 

[antmanb]

I think it is a mistake to try to guess what might happen in 2014. Chances are Caroline, Rachael, Ashley, Mirai and this generation of Olympic hopefuls will be out of skating by then and it will be some young kid that we haven't heard of yet.

If we look at the last several ladies gold medalists, and go back four years...

Arakawa did not make the team for Worlds.

Hughes had never competed internationally as a senior or junior

Lipinski had never competed internationally at any level.

Baiul had never competed internationally at any level.

Yamaguchi won junior worlds but had not yet competed as a senior.

If this pattern continues, and if we want to make a prediction about who will be ready to roll in Sochi, look to the novices. As for Caroline, carpe diem.

That is interesting, and i would add that as an observation if Zhang does make the Olympic team then her international experience would be similar to that of Cohen at SLC. Competing as a senior and being on the GP circuit but not having competed at a world championship. Though Zhang has the added bonus of exeriencnig competing at least one senior ISU championship (the 4CC).

Ant

 

[PolymerBob]

If we look at the last several ladies gold medalists, and go back four years...

Arakawa did not make the team for Worlds.

And four years before that, she competed in Nagano. I just can't see the young girls retiring before 20 years of age.

At the current time, Caroline is the rear echelon. There is no skater, and I'm talking anywhere on earth, younger than her who poses a threat of beating her. I suspect the situation will stay that way for some time.

EDIT : Now that I think about it, the same can be said about Mao.

 

[Mathman]

I suspect the situation will stay that way for some time.

That's the part that I am always suspicious of in figure skating. It seems to me that changes often come faster than we are prepared for.

anyway, my point about Caroline is, go for it NOW! Four years from now, who knows?

 

[zartian]

Many people here seem to be dreaming about Caroline's future (which suddenly started from last season). But my feeling is that she will never get OGM or any title as the top of the top skaters, with the same height of jump and speed as she does currently. Flexibility cannot do everything. When doing triples, she is depending on fast turns rather than using speed or height. That looks pathetic. I think that's why her PCS is low. The problem is the height and speed is not easy to overcome.

I've seen many people here complaining about Caroline's being robbed in the U.S. championship. My feeling is that the US judges (they are experts, not you) might have already foretold her potential limits. I think the US has to find someone else to get all the titles they want.. some one with higher jumps and speed..someone who has inborn athletic talent in those. I think Mirai, among current senior skaters, has better potential in that respect. Caroline has been more consistent than Mirai so far, which is a good merit of hers, but who knows the future? Sorry for saying something annoying to you all who have great expectations about Caroline. But this is just my humble opinion...

 

[Andalusia]

Maybe someone can change the title of the thread to "Caroline Zhang's Supporters Thread" so as to keep the bots out. Sheesh, you'd think with Mao being the main rival, she'd be taking most of the hits. I suppose that's not feasible since there's no Mao thread up right now.

MK and Caroline, this is what being called the Kween and having a thread with over 30,000 views will do to you.