Any Sasha updates?

[silverlake22]

I think 2007 Nats- Alyssa shocked everyone in the FS and pulled herself up to 3rd and earned a spot on the 2007 World team, her first trip to the World championships.

In 2009, she did it again, but this time in the SP. Even with a subpar FS, her lead was big enough to sneak the championship.

2010-?

ETA: To tie it back to the original topic, amazing how even a major headcase like Czisny has been able to pull off a clean FS in a major comp, and Cohen never was able to. (Come to think of it, I don't think Caro Kostner has, either)

You make a good point. Alissa has done lots of clean SP in recent years though, she has really become a short program skater. Her short was great at nats last year, good at COR, great at SC. She had a bad short at worlds but that I think was due to pressure. And when Alissa won bronze in 2007 I think she had a jump downgraded, but that was it. You can count on her SP to be great unless it's at a big pressure event, then she sometimes falters. She can't really seem to pull off a competitive LP score in the CoP though, which worries me for the Olympics if she makes the team. Let LP at 2007 and 2009 were both pretty good for her but she still only got about 100 points for each of them....stupid downgrades!

Carolina seems to have nerves that rival Alissa's, but she is also very tall and fast which does not help with consistency on jumps b/c the timing is very easy to mess up when you move so fast. For Sasha I think it's a stamina issue, she is so slight and probably uses up a lot of her energy on spirals and spins so that when the jumps come late in the program she doesn't have the strength to land them

 

[reynycpr]

ETA: To tie it back to the original topic, amazing how even a major headcase like Czisny has been able to pull off a clean FS in a major comp, and Cohen never was able to. (Come to think of it, I don't think Caro Kostner has, either)

Only (kinda) clean FS I can think of off the top of my head for Caro was 2003 Euros, (3lutz/3toe, 3flip/3toe, 2axel/3sal seq, and 3loop, she doubled the first 3loop at the beginning of the LP.).

 

[R.D.]

You make a good point. Alissa has done lots of clean SP in recent years though, she has really become a short program skater. Her short was great at nats last year, good at COR, great at SC. She had a bad short at worlds but that I think was due to pressure. And when Alissa won bronze in 2007 I think she had a jump downgraded, but that was it. You can count on her SP to be great unless it's at a big pressure event, then she sometimes falters. She can't really seem to pull off a competitive LP score in the CoP though, which worries me for the Olympics if she makes the team. Let LP at 2007 and 2009 were both pretty good for her but she still only got about 100 points for each of them....stupid downgrades!

Tell me about it!!!

I see her being 8th or 9th at best in a world-class field- her issues once again will hold her back from the top crop. With her nerves, it's closer to 12th or 13th (I did think she got a generous score in the worlds SP for the performance she gave). But Alyssa, at the Olys...judging what she did at Worlds, I don't trust her to perform very well...of course, I can still hope.

Carolina seems to have nerves that rival Alissa's, but she is also very tall and fast which does not help with consistency on jumps b/c the timing is very easy to mess up when you move so fast. For Sasha I think it's a stamina issue, she is so slight and probably uses up a lot of her energy on spirals and spins so that when the jumps come late in the program she doesn't have the strength to land them

Kostner is a worse version of Czisny when it comes to mental toughness...when she gives into her nerves, she's DONE. Czisny usually will fall around 10th-14th place. Kostner, she could be 2nd or 15th.

About Cohen, possibly but considering that she has struggled with jumps even in her show performances tells me that there's more to it than that.

 

[silverlake22]

Tell me about it!!!

I see her being 8th or 9th at best in a world-class field- her issues once again will hold her back from the top crop. With her nerves, it's closer to 12th or 13th (I did think she got a generous score in the worlds SP for the performance she gave). But Alyssa, at the Olys...judging what she did at Worlds, I don't trust her to perform very well...of course, I can still hope.



Kostner is a worse version of Czisny when it comes to mental toughness...when she gives into her nerves, she's DONE. Czisny usually will fall around 10th-14th place. Kostner, she could be 2nd or 15th.

About Cohen, possibly but considering that she has struggled with jumps even in her show performances tells me that there's more to it than that.

Good analysis. Kostner really is an extreme version of Czisny, and her speed and height I think definitely contribute to it. At 2009 worlds she did one triple and a bunch of singles because she performed after Yuna was awesome and clearly couldn't handle it. In 2008 worlds she got second but her FS was pretty shaky and I didn't think she really deserved that placement but the pretty European bonus helped her out.

Yeah I tend to think Alissa even if she keeps it together will get downgrades in the free and end up at the bottom end of the top 10 or even as low as 15 if she lets the nerves get to her.

Things are looking good for Rachael though, if you look at the GPF results, wonder woman Yuna only got a 188, and Miki a 185 although she may have been a bit overscored. Rachael's 174.91 at SA would have placed her in 3rd at the GPF. If she had gotten credit for the spin, she's be 8 points behind the Queen of figure skating and 5 off from super talented Miki Ando. If Rochette can't do a good long she won't medal at the Olympics. All that has to happen for Rachael to podium at the Olympics is for 2 ladies out of Mao, Miki, and Joannie to have an off night if she skates well, right? Granted, Miki or Mao might have to be really off but they haven't exactly been stellar this season. If that happens and Carolina or Akiko don't surprise us and sneak on to the podium, Rachael could do it

 

[R.D.]

I sure hope, but let's not count our chickens...

 

[silverlake22]

I sure hope, but let's not count our chickens...

Probably a good call, especially because we don't know if Sasha will be there and if she can kink the results.

 

[R.D.]

Probably a good call, especially because we don't know if Sasha will be there and if she can kink the results.

I was getting more at the fact that Rachel isn't even a shoo-in for the Oly team (although it can be argued that she's a moderate to heavy favorite)...and this all assumes not only that the favorites will bomb, but she'll have a repeat of her SA performance...not even close to being a done deal...for all we know she could bomb like Czisny (although gauging her history, that's not likely either)

Cohen- I'll believe it when I see it.

 

[silverlake22]

I was getting more at the fact that Rachel isn't even a shoo-in for the Oly team (although it can be argued that she's a moderate to heavy favorite)...and this all assumes not only that the favorites will bomb, but she'll have a repeat of her SA performance...not even close to being a done deal...for all we know she could bomb like Czisny (although gauging her history, that's not likely either)

Cohen- I'll believe it when I see it.

6 more weeks and then everything will be decided

As for Rachael, I tend to think if she bombs a lot of other people will too and she wouldn't drop that low in the rankings as a result. Anything could happen though. I just really hope she and Akiko get to go in the first place! ahh

 

[janetfan]

If I was judging back in 2002 Sasha would have won Silver in SLC as she outskated - and absolutely outperformed a lacklustre Michelle and Irina.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FfT_F68KWao&feature=related

That podium should have been Sarah, Sasha and ............... not sure who for the bronze but probably Irina.

I hope Vancouver does not award medals to the favorites if they do not deserve it and earn it on the ice.

 

[Nadia01]

If I was judging back in 2002 Sasha would have won Silver in SLC as she outskated - and absolutely outperformed a lacklustre Michelle and Irina.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FfT_F68KWao&feature=related

That podium should have been Sarah, Sasha and ...............and not sure who for the bronze but probably Irina.

I hope Vancouver does not award medals to the favorites if they do not deserve it and earn it on the ice.

i don't think 6.0 values each element differently from COP. I think that under COP Sasha might have won the gold b/c I find her skating superior to Sarah Hughes' (I know some disagree and that's fine w/ me ), although I can't recall how she did during short, so I'm basing that on LP only.

 

[janetfan]

i don't think 6.0 values each element differently from COP. I think that under COP Sasha might have won the gold, although I can't recall how she did during short, so I'm basing that on LP only.

Sasha was in the top 3 with Michelle and Irina.

Sasha's LP was pretty darned good. Her only mistake was missing the 3x3 - which Irina and Michelle did not even attempt that night.

The silver and bronze in SLC were awarded for reputation.
Irina and Michelle were far from their best but just like we see in CoP judges like to favor the better known skaters.

 

[antmanb]

i don't think 6.0 values each element differently from COP. I think that under COP Sasha might have won the gold b/c I find her skating superior to Sarah Hughes' (I know some disagree and that's fine w/ me ), although I can't recall how she did during short, so I'm basing that on LP only.

I think the main issue with Sasha's LP in SLC was that it was just empty to me. There was very little choreography in the programme and her basic skating was well behind those who finished in front of her. Her skating at the time was slow, her jumps small and her edging extremely poor. These are all things she went on to work on after 2002 but at that time she wasn't in the same league in terms of basic skating as the ones who wound up on the podium. She hit the pretty positions but from the ankle down there was no comparison.

Her SP was a blinder though - there was much more chroeography in that short programme than there was in the LP.

Ant

 

[silverlake22]

I think the main issue with Sasha's LP in SLC was that it was just empty to me. There was very little choreography in the programme and her basic skating was well behind those who finished in front of her. Her skating at the time was slow, her jumps small and her edging extremely poor. These are all things she went on to work on after 2002 but at that time she wasn't in the same league in terms of basic skating as the ones who wound up on the podium. She hit the pretty positions but from the ankle down there was no comparison.

Her SP was a blinder though - there was much more chroeography in that short programme than there was in the LP.

Ant

The SP was good.

The thing about Sasha, she has very short limbs. If her arms and legs were long i'm sure her jumps would be higher and she would be absolutely stunning

 

[janetfan]

The SP was good.

The thing about Sasha, she has very short limbs. If her arms and legs were long i'm sure her jumps would be higher and she would be absolutely stunning

Some of the jumps were small but a few looked OK to me. She also had clean landings except for a little skid on one.

Were Michelle's jumps all so big that night? Were Irina's landing so clean? Did Irina and Michelle both skate slower than usual, especially Irina?

As to the performance aspect of their programs - I thought Sasha won that easily. She performed well and Michelle and Irina did not.

I think all three had pretty good SP's ...... Sarah not as good as the top three though.

This is a case similar to the GPF. Some fans are saying Akiko just isn't good enough..........

I don't think the point is whether Akiko is better than Miki but only a matter of who skated better in the LP at the GPF.

SLC felt the same way to me. I was for Michelle all the way. When Michelle did not skate well I was hoping Irina might win but she did not skate her best either.

Skating from the blade down is not the only criteria which is why school figures were eliminated as the overall quality along with positions from the blade up and expression became more important.

 

[demarinis5]

If I was judging back in 2002 Sasha would have won Silver in SLC as she outskated - and absolutely outperformed a lacklustre Michelle and Irina.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FfT_F68KWao&feature=related

That podium should have been Sarah, Sasha and ............... not sure who for the bronze but probably Irina.

I hope Vancouver does not award medals to the favorites if they do not deserve it and earn it on the ice.

I just choked on my coffee. Are you serious.

 

[janetfan]

I just choked on my coffee. Are you serious.

Be careful with your coffee! I was serious but wish no harm to anyone drinking coffee - or other beverages.

The podium always felt off to me in SLC.

Two of the medalists skated cautiously, almost looking scared. For me to give a medal to those types of performances they would have to be exceptional. They were not.

Careful with your coffee now

 

[gkelly]

Skating from the blade down is not the only criteria

No, but it's the most important criterion for most judges. More important than jump content for many, I'm sure.

which is why school figures were eliminated

I don't think the reasoning behind eliminating school figures was that blade and edge technique was no longer important. Rather that speed, freedom of movement and flow across the ice, and complex combinations of a variety of blade-related skills, demonstrating enough mastery of the technique to adjust timing and effort qualities to reflect musical rhythms, was more important than the ability to show one or two skills together in isolation and trace over the exact same circles.

as the overall quality along with positions from the blade up and expression became more important.

These were always important in freeskating. How important probably varies from judge to judge as well as across eras.

However, "expression" of the musical character can also be achieved with the blades, not just from the waist or ankle up. That's what ice dancing is all about. I wouldn't say any of the ladies being discussed here particularly excelled at that, but when it does occur it would be rewarded more than expression with the upper body.

 

[Tinymavy15]

If I was judging back in 2002 Sasha would have won Silver in SLC as she outskated - and absolutely outperformed a lacklustre Michelle and Irina.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FfT_F68KWao&feature=related

That podium should have been Sarah, Sasha and ............... not sure who for the bronze but probably Irina.

I hope Vancouver does not award medals to the favorites if they do not deserve it and earn it on the ice.

I agree completely with your top 2, Sasha had a gorgeous SP which
not many people seem to remeber. Her free only had a one fall-thing which was on a very difficult 3/3 and she completed the first jump fine. The program afer that was certainly one of the best If not thee best of the night. I would have actually left Michelle on the podium in 3rd.. that SP was also great and her freeskate was better than Irina's dispute a squat-fall (almost same mistake as Sasha).

 

[demarinis5]

Be careful with your coffee! I was serious but wish no harm to anyone drinking coffee - or other beverages.

The podium always felt off to me in SLC.

Two of the medalists skated cautiously, almost looking scared. For me to give a medal to those types of performances they would have to be exceptional. They were not.

Careful with your coffee now

I will be careful. Over the years I have become a pro at avoiding choking on my beverages

The podium always felt off to me too, but for different reasons than yours.

 

[katha]

Sarah Hughes is a lovely, talented girl, I'm sure, but IMO she shouldn't have won that gold medal. That was one of the crappiest competitions judging wise, the judges seemed scared to give it to one of the ladies with mistakes but vastly superior jumping technique/presentation because of the pairs scandal, I think.