Just HOW will the U.S. teams be picked?

[janetfan]

I think that the who medals gps and who didn't is beside the point. I think it would be wise to take it in account how a skater Performed (not placed) thoughout the season when picking the best team if that is the goal. The way flukes work; weir, lysacek , or abbot could finish off the podium; There is a difference between rewarding cosistancy and backdoor politics;

You are absolutely right. :yes:

The skaters that can be most consistent at Natls will be named to the Natl team.

The skaters who are not consistent enough to medal at Natls will be left home.

It is the fairest system and as mathman and gsrossano have pointed out several times it would take special circumstances for the medalists to get bumped off the team.

Johnny Weir finishing off the Natls podium for a second straight year would probably not be considered a special, unusual or extraordinary circumtance.

Johnny will either earn his spot on the team or he won't.
There is already too much crying in skating - let's not forget it is a competition, and it is supposed to be a real sport. Real sports have real winners and real losers.

 

[Mathman]

Does anyone remember "Dan and Dave?"

Dan O'brien and Dave Johnson were the top U.S. dogs in the decathlon heading into the 1992 summer Olympics, They were heavily promoted all year in a big "Dan and Dave" advertising campaign.

Dan was the defending (1991) world champion and word record holder in the event (8891 points).

When it came to the Olympic trials, in the pole vault Dan passed at the lower heights, then panicked and missed three times at the next height. He received 0 points in this segment, and did not make the Olympic team.

I repeat: Dan was the reigning world champion and all-time world record holder. He fluffed at fifteen feet and did not make the Olympic team, despite strong performances in all the other segments. That's sports.

Reebok shoes, the sponsor of the Dan and Dave ads, was livid. What about the million dollars they poured into supporting track and field? Too bad.

Dave went to the Olympics and won bronze.

Dan went back to work, won the world championship in 1993 and 1995 and the Olympic gold medal in 1996.

(Speaking of different races and nationalities in sports, Dan O'brien was an Afro-Finnish orphan who was adopted and raised by an Irish family in Oregon. )

 

[Mathman]

Straight from the USFSA President

Sorry for the consecutive posts, but this was just posted over on FSU, by Shallwedansu. This is an interview with the new USFSA President, Patricia St.Peter, for the Naples, Florida, newpaper.

DN: How are U.S. skaters selected for the Olympics?

(St.) Peter: We have an International Committee who will be meeting at the U.S. Championship in Spokane, Wash., in January — that’s where our National Championships will be held and they will analyze the various skaters by discipline — the men’s discipline, the ladies discipline, the pairs and the ice dance discipline — and they will come up with who they believe to be the best skaters. And those skaters will be nominated by U.S. Figure Skating to the U.S. Olympic Committee.

So now we know.

http://www.naplesnews.com/news/2009/dec/31/us-figure-skating-president-talks-about-upcoming-w/

 

[Sylvia]

http://www.naplesnews.com/news/2009/dec/31/us-figure-skating-president-talks-about-upcoming-w/

However, in another reply in this interview, Patricia St. Peter said (see my bolded sentence of hers below):

DN: U.S. figure skating is looking for a contender in women’s singles figure skating. Who are some of the women we might see make it to Vancouver?

Peter: There is a number of skaters who could be stand outs. Yuna Kim is the current world champion. She is from South Korea. She is a stand out. Here in the U.S.: Rachael Flatt, Mirai Nagasu, Ashley Wagner, Caroline Zhang, Alissa Czisny — our current national champion. These are ladies all who have the potential for making our Olympic team... It depends on nationals who will be on our team. And at the Olympics it’s going to depend on how they skate there. There is no automatic, so it’s going to be an exciting winter Olympics.

 

[demarinis5]

^^Thanks MM and Sylvia.

 

[Sylvia]

We'll soon see if that special committee rubber stamps the results of the Nats which may prove that the committee is only a ceremonial group. NO?

No, it's not "only a ceremonial group."

The commitee in question is the Managemanet Subcommittee of the USFSA's International Committee. This committee bears the responsibility of selecting team members for all U.S. representatives to international competotions, including the grand prix, four continents and worlds, in addition to the Olympics.

From the USFS site:
"The U.S. Figure Skating International Committee is responsible for the approval of criteria used to select and enter athletes to compete in all international competitions, the ISU Championships (World Championships, Four Continents Championships, World Junior Championships) and the Olympic Winter Games."
(ETA: also Skate America, but not the other GP events.)

Information about the mission and governance of the 9-member International Committee Management Subcomittee (ICMS) and the 35-member International Committee can be found at: http://www.usfigureskating.org/Story.asp?cat=7&id=846

The members of the committee are listed on page 5 of this document.

Actually, that's an outdated list that I believe is supposed to be updated soon with the names of the current ICMS and IC members. Mitchell, Dalley and W. Enzmann are not currently members of ICMS. Also, I've heard the dates of the Olympic team selection meetings may have been revised since that document was originally published.

 

[R.D.]

I guess we'll see, but I think given most scenarios the top two will be picked.

 

[ae9177]

One interesting observation: in the US figure skating president interview, she didn't mention Sasha Cohen and Brandon Mroz in her 'potential Olympic team list'.

And I really want to know
1) If both B/A and D/W skate cleanly at nationals, who will be on the top?
2) Will Sasha attend the Nationals or withdraw?
3) If Sasha finishes third, will she make the Olympic team?
4) If Weir finishes 4th or lower, and is outskated by Rippon and/or Mroz, will USFS send him to Vancouver?

 

[R.D.]

I think the answer to 3 and 4 is No.

 

[luvsasha]

One interesting observation: in the US figure skating president interview, she didn't mention Sasha Cohen and Brandon Mroz in her 'potential Olympic team list'.

And I really want to know
1) If both B/A and D/W skate cleanly at nationals, who will be on the top?
2) Will Sasha attend the Nationals or withdraw?
3) If Sasha finishes third, will she make the Olympic team?
4) If Weir finishes 4th or lower, and is outskated by Rippon and/or Mroz, will USFS send him to Vancouver?

For #1, I'd say it depends on who has the higher difficulty, and who the US wants to be the number one US team going into Vancouver.

But I'm no dance expert.

#2: I don't think Sasha will show up, but I'm not Sasha so only she can really say for sure.

#3: Hopefully not, because all of the other ladies competed through the entire quad and would deserve to go more than Sasha (especially whoever the two two are)

#4: Maybe, Maybe not. I really think Johnny should go, and I'm no Johnny fan. I think if Mroz and Rippon beat him, they should still send him because he has been a top US skater for a lot longer than Mroz or Rippon. Also, Mroz and Rippon skating well can be a little bit of a fluke-ish thing if you know what I mean. Mroz had a great skate at nationals, but he hasn't skated up to that since. Rippon...is a great skater, but is kind of untested at this point. IMO, the best mens team the US can send is Lysacek, Abbott, and Weir and they'd be sort of stupid if they didn't send those three. Besides, all three of them made the GPF this year.

 

[Trewyn]

One interesting observation: in the US figure skating president interview, she didn't mention Sasha Cohen and Brandon Mroz in her 'potential Olympic team list'.

Interesting observation about Sasha; when was the interview taken? Maybe at the USFSA they already know that Sasha is withdrawing?

 

[PolymerBob]

Interesting observation about Sasha; when was the interview taken? Maybe at the USFSA they already know that Sasha is withdrawing?

No. If the USFSA, or anyone else, knows that Sasha is withdrawing, then she has withdrawn. And that has not happened yet.

At this point, I would say Sasha will show up at Nationals, even if she has to be carried out to the center of the ice. Her competitive career is over if she doesn't show.

 

[Mathman]

Her competitive career is over if she doesn't show.

Well...yeah...that's the question. Has Sasha decided that her competitive career is over, or hasn't she?

 

[DesertRoad]

The US has no medaling prospects in ladies and pairs. None. And yes, I include Sasha on the list of the hopeless. She's a skater who hasn't competed in 4 years, and one who had more meltdowns than Amy Winehouse even when she did compete. It would take a goddamn miracle for any of the US ladies and pairs to medal, and such a thing is as likely to plop out of the goddamn heavens on one skater as another.

So I hope the USFS just sends the top two finishers in ladies and pairs to the Olympics. Why cause any drama and heartache to engineer some optimal placement in those disciplines? Off-podium finishes just aren't that important. Nobody outside of the autistic spectrum is going to give a crap if the US ladies finished 7th and 12th at the Olympics vs. 9th and 15th. All Americans (the only people who'd pay attention to the US ladies and pairs) care about is that their athletes represent their country with dignity. And any top 2 finisher at nationals will do just fine in that.

Now our world team, that may take some thinking. We have a halfway decent shot at regaining 3 slots for ladies in worlds 2011, and a slight shot at the same for pairs. For worlds, I won't begrudge the USFS for taking heavy consideration of the prior international results of the skaters they send.

As for men, I don't like him, but it'd be stupid not to send Lysacek regardless of where he finishes at nationals. He's the reigning world champ and became GPF champ very recently. He is a major podium threat at the Olympics. In ice dancing, B/A and D/W are a given. And I won't be mad if Weir and Abbot are sent to the Olympics even if they bomb at nationals. In all other cases, just send the top national finisher as applies.

 

[R.D.]

So if Surprise Skater gets 2nd, bumping someone like Wagner or Nagasu to 3rd, would they send SS to Olys but pass her up to send Wagner/Nagasu to Worlds? Aha...

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Thank you Sylvia and MM for going after the fact that the Int'l Cttee does make the final decision on the Team selection for the Olys.

As I had said at the beginning of this thread that the Int'l Cttee would have more weight than the placement results of the Nationals.

I further contend what else I said about no management would allow a member to go based on one competition:

I would assume the following will be considered:

a) Results of 2010 US Nats (not necessarily the winner)

b) Results of 2009 GP Final (how well they performed under fire)

c) Previous Oly experiene (how well they performed under fire)

My thinking was brought about by the Mitchell/Eldridge case. The US bronze medalist was not given the Olys but was given the Worlds.

(Interesting that Mitchell is on this year's Committee)

 

[PolymerBob]

My understanding, which could very well be wrong, is that there is NO leeway with regard to the World team. The top finishers at Nationals are automatically on the team. I only ever heard about leeway on the Olympic team.

 

[gkelly]

My understanding, which could very well be wrong, is that there is NO leeway with regard to the World team. The top finishers at Nationals are automatically on the team. I only ever heard about leeway on the Olympic team.

My understanding is that the national champion is guaranteed a spot on the world team, unless ineligible by age as was the case with Nagasu and McLaughlin in 2008.

But silver and bronze medalists are not automatically guaranteed to go to Worlds if there are second and third slots available. However, that leeway would only be used in extraordinary circumstances. Nationals results still hold by far the greatest weight in the decisions.

 

[Mathman]

My thinking was brought about by the Mitchell/Eldridge case. The US bronze medalist was not given the Olys but was given the Worlds.

Yes, I think that the Mark Mitchell case in 1992 is the only situation in which the USFSA International Committee ever has a real decision to make about the Olympic team. Todd Eldredge, US. champoion in the previous two years (1990 and 1991), was injured and unable to compete at Nationals. He requested and received a medical bye from the committee, same as Michelle Kwan in 2006.

Other than medical byes for injured superstars, the committee always just sends the top finishers at Nationals.

This (the provision for medical byes) is discussed at length in the document posted above about the duties of the committee (middle of page 4 to top of page 5).

http://www.usfigureskating.org/cont... WOG FSK Athlete Selection Procedures web.pdf

By the way, the buzz in 1992 was that many people thought Mitchell should have beenn sent to the Olympics instead of Paul Wylie. But the committee said, nope, Chris Bowman got first at Nationals, Wylie second, end of story. First and second at Nationals go to the Olympics, along with Eldredge.

Mitchell was given worlds as a consolation prize, and the World team was Eldredge, Bowman and Mitchell. Wylie retired after the Olympics anyway.

 

[silverlake22]

Nationals this year, esp for the ladies, is a HIGH PRESSURE event. It is a good rehearsal for the Olympics. If Rachael and Mirai are tough and stay on their feet like they normally do, they are likely to place well and have a good shot at making the team. If for some reason they fall a ton, that is uncharacteristic of both girls and probably means they can't take the pressure, so the ladies that do better should go instead. If Alissa can successfully defend her title with this kind of pressure and land 5 triples in the FS, then I think she makes her case that she can handle the pressure and go to the Olympics.

That is why nationals is important to consider.

If Alissa pulls her usual and falls on her butt and URs in the free, I think it would be unfair to give her 1st or 2nd and send her to the Olympics, as it's clear she can't handle the pressure and will most likely do the same at the Olympics. The same goes for any of the other top contenders, none of who have the tendency to splat, if they suddenly splat (more than one fluky fall) I think it means something. So let those who skate best go. If Christina Gao can deal with the pressure and lands all her jumps while others falter, why shouldn't she go to the Olympics? Her being so young probably takes the pressure off her and she will most likely be more excited than nervous at the Olympics. So nationals is very important, because it will be high pressure, but not as much as the Olympics.