Australian Aborigines Object to portrayal of their dances by DomShabs

[life684]

I am Australian and I am offended!!!! I have been warning everyone in the sport about this for years, you cannot take people's music which defines their culture and heritage and make a mockery of it and expect to get away with it.

It's nice to see that Dom/Shab are just laughing off their blatant act of Racisim as a joke. I wonder if they will still be laughing when they hear that the Australians are appealing to the olympic committee to get them banned on grounds of Racism, and are considering filling suit.


Here is an idea BAN THEM FOR CHEATING AND RACISIM!!!!

I don't think Australians will call it Racist, especially after KFC ad fiasco and ongoing Diplomatic tensions with India and Indian Community . I think they wouldn't want to start a debate with Russians as well on that.

yes, i do think they will have to consult the aborigines and try to make the required changes if possible.

 

[Mathman]

Our dance is a collective depiction of the Aborigines and it’s not intended to insult any nations – Aboriginal or even let’s say African.

What is the world coming to? We can't even insult Africans any more?! hwell:

 

[ImaginaryPogue]

point to Mathman.

 

[flesymtuobayzarc]

What is the world coming to? We can't even insult Africans any more?! hwell:

My impression was that they weren't mean to the Africans or something. They used them more as an example (equally well they could say 'or even let's say Scandinavians'). Perhaps my translation failed to convey this. Another thing is that I don't have the proper feel for the Russian language yet (nor do I have it for English, for that matter), so in fact they might be mean, but I'm unable to see it.
Sorry for the confusion. I tried to help. Perhaps some Russians on the forum can explain what they really meant.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

l

Still, if someone decided to express the rhyms of African drum music by cavorting about in a gorilla suit, that would not be OK, IMHO.

Well cavorting in Black Face is against the law in the US, and that can be stretched to animal faces if it referred to black people.

Has anyone seen this dance or better, is it on youtube?

How did Dom/Shabs routine get to Australia anyway? Was the intent to create controversy?

Didn't Navarro/Bommentre do an African parody in bad or good taste (depending) and no one complained openly. And Stavisky also.

 

[janetfan]

Well cavorting in Black Face is against the law in the US, and that can be stretched to animal faces if it referred to black people.

Has anyone seen this dance or better, is it on youtube?

How did Dom/Shabs routine get to Australia anyway? Was the intent to create controversy?

Didn't Navarro/Bommentre do an African parody in bad or good taste (depending) and no one complained openly. And Stavisky also.

I saw about 20 seconds of it . It reminded me of the "caveman" routine the Duchesnays did back in the late 80's - but not as good and with terrible costumes.

 

[Wicked]

It's on Youtube, Joesitz. The performance at Russian Nats-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_uoToFGK6E

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

However, I don't think this controversy will hurt skating at all. If there is enough public outcry, maybe some viewers will tune in for ice dance just to see what all the commotion is about.

Are we just worrying about hurting Skating and not caring about other peoples feelings?

 

[colleen o'neill]

I just hope Doris never draws a picture of me... I just noticed this thread..and I'm so glad to see that someone with some real authority (aboriginal council ) objected.But really, we don't or shouldn't need them to tell us.

This dance has been a travesty from the outset. And they can spin as much as they like about being 'true' to aboriginal dance, but anyone with a half hour or so to spare can go on Youtube and see for themselves how ridiculous those claims are.

The body paint is a poor representation ( if not parody) of aboriginal design,and nothing like the actual body paint worn by real aboriginal dancers, or even a plausible artistic adaptation of it. I found the comments about the music illuminating because in all the aboriginal pieces I watched when the theme of this program was announced ( much more than 1/2 hrs. worth..I'm easily drawn into these things )..well, there just wasn't anything like it.( except for the bit of digeridoo in the background.) The percussion sounded like it belonged on another continent, none of the aboriginal percussion I'd heard was that... layered.... But I had recently watched a documentary on preserving Indian musical forms , and found the vocals in D/S's program oddly reminiscent of some things I'd heard there.Even then I thought it might be coincidence because I thought surely they would have researched the music, at least...

As for the choreography..this is a very poor choice of dance to adapt for ice dance , but leaving that aside, I can't see anything authentic in there .Not one movement or pose.If I'm missing something, it must be very fleeting....Oh, but it's Different ! So? ..and different from what ? Turn down the sound and this could easily be an excerpt from their Jungle program of a few years ago...It's sad case of the Emperor's clothes..it's high time to stand up and say the Emperor is naked.

I think this kind of thing can hurt skating. If the programs are supposed to be judged , in part , for how well they convey the character of the dance they're representing , something like this should recieve negative marks.I know F/S were placed above them in this segment..but by a very narrow margin. Remembering their OD from earlier in the year , I can hardly credit that. I havent seen their CD's but i suspect D/S may not have deseved the margin they enjoyed there.. waiting for Youtube...

 

[berrycute]

I think Oksana has a point, virtually every culture or nationality could object to their portrayal in an ice dance OD, because they can never be 100% authentic. So we now know the Aboriginal community (or at least part of it) doesn't like this dance. Ok, fine. DomShab should explain that it is not supposed to be an authentic expression of Aboriginal culture, nor a parody. It is an incorporation of Aboriginal stylistic elements into an ice dance routine. But if they change their OD due to this kind of pressure I will loose a lot of respect for them.

I mean, the UK got offended when Renee Zellweger was cast as Bridget Jones! People get offended all the time about foreigners depicting them. Fine, you're offended, that's a legitimate emotion and you should tell people you're offended, tell the Russian Ambassador, tell DomShab, but don't expect them to change their opinion of their routine, or change the routine itself, because of your sentiments on it, be you Aboriginal or not. God, people act like being offended is like being shot in the head. It's not. It's a part of life. When you start censoring that which you find offensive, then that's the beginning of a whole other, far more serious problem.

And cloudkicker, demeaning real honest to God racism, and the real trials Aboriginal people, as well as other ethnic minorities, have endured, by putting an ice dance routine on par with it, well, THAT could be kind of offensive, no?

 

[colleen o'neill]

It's true no ice dance representation can be 100% authentic..but we're talking 0% here , well, maybe 2% - there is that digeridoo..But if there's to be censorship ,it should be by the judges for a poor interpretation...censoring poor taste ought to be the coaches' purview. Good luck.

 

[oxade21]

If Aborigines are crying racism, Dom/Shabs hit it home. How more authentic can you be? They deserve that gold just for all the attention the sport is getting.

 

[berrycute]

It's true no ice dance representation can be 100% authentic..but we're talking 0% here , well, maybe 2% - there is that digeridoo..But if there's to be censorship ,it should be by the judges for a poor interpretation...censoring poor taste ought to be the coaches' purview. Good luck.

I agree with that. I would give the program low marks too if I could, it's craptastic. But if they believe in it they should be able to perform it.

 

[janetfan]

However, I don't think this controversy will hurt skating at all. If there is enough public outcry, maybe some viewers will tune in for ice dance just to see what all the commotion is about.

Publicity whether good or bad can help at times.

But let's consider for a minute if "I love to Skate" is right and this controversy grows and becomes a big story heading into Vancouver.

Do you think IOC bigwigs really want another skating scandal - and before the Games even get started?

Can Ice Dancing afford another scandal when onlh a few years ago there was talk about eliminating it from the Olympics?

I have no idea which way this story may go but if it gets big I think it could hurt skating, particularly the Dance.

I am no expert on the rules of the Folk Dance - but it seems to me if DomShab get rid if the darkface and maybe spend a little time on their costumes that program would not have to be thrown out.

I could be wrong about that but I find it hard to believe every other program is a completetly accurate portrayal of the Dance it is supposed to be representing.

 

[colleen o'neill]

Well, it seems to me that the one big difference in this case is that aboriginal dance is not a 'social' dance in the same way that most dances we'll see in this category are..it has a spiritual significance..so I can understand their objection.

I don't think the IOC would want a scandal...but the scandal would be far worse if this program was to be unduly rewarded. If this kind of juvenile interpretation continues to be rewarded, we'll continue to see programs of the same stripe. I'm not just picking on D/S ..but I think Linichuk needs a shake..( I think B/A 's free dance is equally tasteless in theme )..quite apart from what she may be able to do for her couples technically.No matter how good a couple may be, they ought to be penalized for excessive cheese, or poor interpretation. The problem is, spin takes over and there is usually someone, skater or coach , who stands up and cries, "ART!" and the skating world caves in.This is not in the best interest of Ice Dance.

 

[bigsisjiejie]

As long as the tech panel/judges refuse to penalize D/S score by having it directly get a Violation deduction and also significant PCS deductions, Team D/S will not see any reason to meaningfully change this dance.

 

[mycelticblessing]

I am no expert on the rules of the Folk Dance - but it seems to me if DomShab get rid if the darkface and maybe spend a little time on their costumes that program would not have to be thrown out.

I could be wrong about that but I find it hard to believe every other program is a completetly accurate portrayal of the Dance it is supposed to be representing.

Didn't you mention that D/S OD reminds you of the Duchesnay's caveman routine? Maybe they could make some changes and call it a 'caveman routine', since the Aborogines are saying that the music, costuming as well as the dance itself are nothing like what an Aboroginal dance would be.

I also doubt that all other programs accurately portray the dance. I think if D/S had stuck to something safer/ conventional like a Russian folk dance, a Flamenco or a western dance, this probably wouldn't have happened since the more common Folk dances have been portrayed so widely that they don't strictly 'belong' to the countries of 'origin' anymore.

 

[janetfan]

Didn't you mention that D/S OD reminds you of the Duchesnay's caveman routine? Maybe they could make some changes and call it a 'caveman routine', since the Aborogines are saying that the music, costuming as well as the dance itself are nothing like what an Aboroginal dance would be.

I also doubt that all other programs accurately portray the dance. I think if D/S had stuck to something safer/ conventional like a Russian folk dance, a Flamenco or a western dance, this probably wouldn't have happened since the more common Folk dances have been portrayed so widely that they don't strictly 'belong' to the countries of 'origin' anymore.

I think the Duchesnays "Savage Rite" choreographed by Christopher Dean was a Free Dance. It was a primitive looking program Christopher put together for them and I don't think it would meet the requirements of a Folk Dance.

I don't see how a secret spiritual rite from the Aborigines qualifies as a Folk Dance either - but I don't know the rules for what qualifies.

I think the Duchesnays dance, from 1988 is much better - but that is very subjective. I tried watching DomShab twice but turn it off as it is of no interest to me and can't stand the costumes or choreo. Again, that is just my taste.

Here is the controversial dance the Duchesnays did back in '88:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KAMObOa1cZk

 

[Bennett]

According to the media reports (the BBC article cited by Dori and the interview in Russian cited by another poster), the couple does not sound like taking the other party as seriously as the other party would want them to (e.g., a pet was involved in choosing the program, the scandal being a "joke" and "absord," "laugh"). I wonder if this is twisted by the media. Although their intention can be innocent and sincere, I am afraid that these stories wouldn't help them.

 

[Mathman]

"It's wasn't our purpose that it be especially Australian just a dance from many thousands of years ago."

I agree with those posters (and also with Dom/Shabs as quoted above) who are saying, well, this isn't really supposed to be specifically Australian, but it just represents the generic backward savage junglebunny -- you know, the Australians, Africans, Native Americans, Wild Men From Borneo,...