The same way we are able to eat animals daily without a second thought as to how the meat is processed.
Johnny Weir vs Friends of Animals
- Thread starter Tonichelle
- Start date
Bug zappers, anyone? Countless flies lose their lives through electrocution everyday. I have yet to have encountered anyone who has raised a fuss over their suffering. The way some people perceive the value of insect life is similar to the way some people perceive the value of animal life. "I guess some folk just don't care about the suffering" is more of a loaded sentence than I would have used, but it is an accurate assessment of an attitude that is prevalant with much of the world in regard to non-human life. It is not an attitude that I would crucify someone for.
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- Jun 21, 2003
IMHO the guiding principle is easy: All sentient creatures have Buddha-nature.
The devil is in the details.
Where I fault Johnny is that while professing "understanding" of the position of the animal rights folks, he expresses this understanding by sending them drawings of dead squirrels. (?) And just when I was starting to like Poker Face, too.
(OT, but is Lady Gaga really a man in drag?)
American football player Michael Vick recently served two years in prison for breeding dogs for the sport of dogfighting, and for organizing such sporting contests. (Dogs that were insufficiently "game" were drowned or hanged.) Vick's defense was, this is part of the culture where I grew up. What's wrong with it?
The devil is in the details.
Where I fault Johnny is that while professing "understanding" of the position of the animal rights folks, he expresses this understanding by sending them drawings of dead squirrels. (?) And just when I was starting to like Poker Face, too.
(OT, but is Lady Gaga really a man in drag?)
American football player Michael Vick recently served two years in prison for breeding dogs for the sport of dogfighting, and for organizing such sporting contests. (Dogs that were insufficiently "game" were drowned or hanged.) Vick's defense was, this is part of the culture where I grew up. What's wrong with it?
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- May 15, 2009
Please don't remind me. I did cancel my Eagles season tickets and rooted for the Jets this season. I always liked Vick as a player when he was with Atlanta.
But I have changed my feelings about the Eagles organiztion. As a former hobby kennel owner I am very much an animal lover.
I forgive Vick very reluctantly because he served his time. I will forgive him more when he leaves Philly and goes to Detroit. I say that knowing there is no worse team could he be sentenced to play for
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- Jun 21, 2003
I forgive Vick very reluctantly because he served his time. I will forgive him more when he leaves Philly and goes to Detroit. I say that knowing there is no worse team could he be sentenced to play for
Ah, the Lions. After last Sunday's game, the only team in the NFL that has never gone to a Super Bowl.
Go New Orleans!
- Joined
- Jan 27, 2009
Mathman
I don't know why you chose not to comment, probably because you're not informed well.
Again, those bulls are raised for corridas only, they won't be used for any other mean, because they are not appropriate for it. This is the fact.
If you forbid the corrida, all those bulls will be killed by far more horrible death than on the corrida.
Again, those bulls can't be used to turn the soil or something like this, even if they would be used, there are too much of them and you have to take care of them, and that costs some money.
I don't understand what's the problem, I'm just telling the truth. In some places in Spain corrida is forbidden and all the bulls were killed in those places. You think that this is less cruel?
And I'm not a fan of corrida, I can't remember when I watched it for the last time. I don't really care for that tradition, neither for the bulls, but it's just amazing how some people keep caring for the bulls so much, that at the end those bulls are all dead. It's a bit strange.
Don't get me wrong, I really don't like cruelty on animals. I actually hate it.
But what exactly did Johnny? Just bought a damn fur. The fox was already dead. Yes, he supported the industry. But that's clearly not the worst sin a man can commit.
I don't know why you chose not to comment, probably because you're not informed well.
Again, those bulls are raised for corridas only, they won't be used for any other mean, because they are not appropriate for it. This is the fact.
If you forbid the corrida, all those bulls will be killed by far more horrible death than on the corrida.
Again, those bulls can't be used to turn the soil or something like this, even if they would be used, there are too much of them and you have to take care of them, and that costs some money.
I don't understand what's the problem, I'm just telling the truth. In some places in Spain corrida is forbidden and all the bulls were killed in those places. You think that this is less cruel?
And I'm not a fan of corrida, I can't remember when I watched it for the last time. I don't really care for that tradition, neither for the bulls, but it's just amazing how some people keep caring for the bulls so much, that at the end those bulls are all dead. It's a bit strange.
I guess no one approves it, because it's horrible. What we do approve it's cruelty on humans. It's horrible that a fox gets electrocuted in it's anus, but it's ok that humans are electrocuted in their brain in the same country.
Don't get me wrong, I really don't like cruelty on animals. I actually hate it.
But what exactly did Johnny? Just bought a damn fur. The fox was already dead. Yes, he supported the industry. But that's clearly not the worst sin a man can commit.
- Joined
- May 15, 2009
Back in Barry's day I used to love watching the Lions :yes:
Go Saints
Score prediption: Saints 70.2, Colts 69.3
I think it will be high scoring just like our Natls :yes:
I just hope the officiating is a little more honest.
BTW, just how many points did Sasha score for her opening jump pass in her SP?
The one Scott described as an under rotated 3Flutz with a two footed landing which was followed by the ur'ed 2T ?
Unfortunately that Scott is not to be trusted and he missed every call
If our best USA tech callers want to tell us Sasha's opening combo jump was a good one then who can dare question their integrity?
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- Jun 21, 2003
OK, this is off-topic for this Johnny Weir thread, but since you managed to work it in...
Sasha got full base value, 7.30. The judges were not unanimous about the quality of the element. In GOEs she got two +1's, four see-no-evil 0s, two minus1's (they saw the two-foot but not the flutz), and one -2 (agreeing with Scott).
Mirai's scores for the same opening combo: the caller gave her a ! for the edge, but still full base value. Eight of the nine judges did not see anything wrong with it and gave her 0 or +1, one judge thought it was terrible and gave her a -2 (possibly a key-stroke error?)
Daniell5555 said:
No. its not that. It is becasue I do not know the right thing to do in these ethical conundrums that end with, "they're all going to die anyway."
To me, bull-fighting is a barbarous sport with no redeeming features whatever, and I wish it would go the way of bear-baiting. Everything else is just moral sophistry. (Others feel differently, I suppose.)
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- Jun 27, 2003
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Mathman
I just wonder if it's right to force to change the opinion of other people on a subject like this. "Friends of animals" are against the industry, but they targeted Johnny and it seems that they won't stop. Well, it's not like Johnny will be hurt by those messages, in any case.
No problem. Well, it's a barbarous and cruel tradition, it's not a sport in any case.
I just wonder if it's right to force to change the opinion of other people on a subject like this. "Friends of animals" are against the industry, but they targeted Johnny and it seems that they won't stop. Well, it's not like Johnny will be hurt by those messages, in any case.
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- Jun 27, 2003
IMHO the sentence was not harsh enough, man shouldn't be out in public much less back in football.
I am not for cruelty to animals. And I get fur is not for all, but, being on teh brunt end of attacks (both in letters and physical) from these groups I can't always go along with a campaign.
Johnny saying what he did in a later article really frustrates me. So much for maturity.
I think I get what you're saying - this is not a natural bred bull. this is a breed that humans have created for strictly one purpose - the corrida.
similar to that of the modern day sled dog - or, Alaskan Husky - without the reason for them to be bred they aren't needed.
I'm not a fan of the idea of the corrida, but in the case of sled dogs if mushing were to end there'd be no way to support the thousands upon thousands of sled dogs that are out there in teh world. Which means most would have to be put down. Sled dogs aren't just used for racing, though, they're also working dogs (those poor abused little things being forced to do anything but get fat and lazy on the couch). It's in their blood, it's what they're bred for, they don't normally make good house pets unless you have a way to keep them stimulated or they go stir crazy.
It's definitely an issue that's a hot topic in this day and age... all over the world.
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- Jun 3, 2009
Surely you recognize the lack of logic inherent in your argument?
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- Jan 27, 2009
Tonichelle
This bull is stronger and more aggressive than a normal one. If a common bull can be a real danger, that one is worse... The cows are aggressive too.
Exactly. I'm not sure how understandable my posts are, but you got the main point.
This bull is stronger and more aggressive than a normal one. If a common bull can be a real danger, that one is worse... The cows are aggressive too.
I agree. Dogfighting is absolutely horrible.
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- Jun 21, 2003
The English Bulldog is an interesting breed. They were bred for the sport of bull-baiting. A bull would be tied to a post and then the trained bulldogs would take turns jumping at its throat in an attempt to get a secure enough hold to suffocate the bull. People would lay bets on which dog would win.
By the way, as a side characteristic, this breeding program produced a dog that ranks number 77 out of 79 recognized breeds, in terms of intelligence (according to Wikipedia.)
When this "sport" fell out of favor, dog owners set to work to breed the viciousness out of the bulldog and now they are affectionate and devoted pets (if a little stubborn still.)
By the way, as a side characteristic, this breeding program produced a dog that ranks number 77 out of 79 recognized breeds, in terms of intelligence (according to Wikipedia.)
When this "sport" fell out of favor, dog owners set to work to breed the viciousness out of the bulldog and now they are affectionate and devoted pets (if a little stubborn still.)
Well, at least with skates, there's a huge difference. Currently, there's really no alternative to leather in high-level skates (though some have a higher degree of synthetic in things like the lining and padding). I'm a strict vegetarian who skates, and obviously wears leather skates. I don't think I should throw my diet to the wind because I love skating -- my diet is helping reduce suffering in the world, as well as the environmental impacts of the meat and dairy industries. And, since currently there's no alternative to leather skates for high-level skaters, that's what I wear. It's not an all-or-nothing scenario.
But there are certainly substitutions for the fur on his costume, unlike the leather in his skates.
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- Jun 27, 2003
A sled dog will NEVER be recognized as a true breed. They already have standard huskies.
These dogs don't enjoy anything but what they're bred to do, there's not a thing wrong with it, unless you talk to someone from Friends of Animals or PETA or the like. They don't care what the truth is, just their version of it. I'm not a musher, and I'm more than a fan, and there are unethical mushers - just as there are unethical dog owners - but the vast majority love their dogs and would do just about anything for them. - however there are "head hunter" websites out there that have them on a "most wanted" list of sorts listing them as scum of the earth and someone that doesn't deserve to be living.
yeah, that's a group of people that are right, fair, and balanced.
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- Dec 6, 2009
You see it's all a little nuts...
I think it's a tad crazy to freak out over one 6 inch piece of fur on someone's shoulder when the whole world wears animals in some way or another. Where do alpaca sweaters come from? Fur lined gloves? Suede and leather coats, belts, briefcases, furniture, etc.
Maybe someone in the Audubon Society should protest the feathers that Evan Lysacek wears on his (hideous) SP costume?
Maybe they should ban the whole sport because they wear leather boots and we all know where leather comes from, right?
Maybe they should protest ALL sports because animal hide of one sort or another is used to make their shoes and boots too.
You see it's all a little nuts...
I think it's a tad crazy to freak out over one 6 inch piece of fur on someone's shoulder when the whole world wears animals in some way or another. Where do alpaca sweaters come from? Fur lined gloves? Suede and leather coats, belts, briefcases, furniture, etc.
Maybe someone in the Audubon Society should protest the feathers that Evan Lysacek wears on his (hideous) SP costume?
Maybe they should ban the whole sport because they wear leather boots and we all know where leather comes from, right?
Maybe they should protest ALL sports because animal hide of one sort or another is used to make their shoes and boots too.
You see it's all a little nuts...
The PETA people or Friends of Animals have zero understanding of human psychology, and their actions are only working against their cause.
Protecting animals is a great cause. But the way they go about it, harassing Weir and those close to him, is the absolute worst way to go about it if they honestly want Weir too stop wearing fur.
Why? Because when someone is being attacked, they immediately go on defensive. They get more extreme in their POV. That's a fact.
So they see Weir wearing fur. What do they do? They call him a murderer, animal torturer, harass him and bully him through the media. What does Weir see this as: justifiably, because it is so disproportionate to his actual offense, Weir feels attacked, goes on defensive and tries to defend his POV. Psychological literature shows that when someone invests the time and energy in defending something, it becomes more valuable to them, thus, Weir becomes more staunchly pro-fur.
Those of you who say he's a big boy and can take the heat are fooling yourself. No one likes to be called a "bad" person or a murderer. No one. So, of course, Weir will have his feelings hurt. But instead of burning his furs and adopting a vegan lifestyle, he will go out and buy another fur coat. Because these attacks make him feel persecuted for his beliefs ( and any person in his position would feel this way) so he becomes an even stronger supporter of fur in the processes. And knowing Weir, he'll want to rub the offenders' faces in it, just because he's Johnny, and that's what he does. So expect more fur next time you see him.
So no, attacking Johnny will not make him change his mind on fur. And if Friends of Animals have half a brain in their head, they know that. Weir is being accused of attention seeking behavior, but in reality, it's Friends of Animals who are using Weir as a way to get publicity.
Protecting animals is a great cause. But the way they go about it, harassing Weir and those close to him, is the absolute worst way to go about it if they honestly want Weir too stop wearing fur.
Why? Because when someone is being attacked, they immediately go on defensive. They get more extreme in their POV. That's a fact.
So they see Weir wearing fur. What do they do? They call him a murderer, animal torturer, harass him and bully him through the media. What does Weir see this as: justifiably, because it is so disproportionate to his actual offense, Weir feels attacked, goes on defensive and tries to defend his POV. Psychological literature shows that when someone invests the time and energy in defending something, it becomes more valuable to them, thus, Weir becomes more staunchly pro-fur.
Those of you who say he's a big boy and can take the heat are fooling yourself. No one likes to be called a "bad" person or a murderer. No one. So, of course, Weir will have his feelings hurt. But instead of burning his furs and adopting a vegan lifestyle, he will go out and buy another fur coat. Because these attacks make him feel persecuted for his beliefs ( and any person in his position would feel this way) so he becomes an even stronger supporter of fur in the processes. And knowing Weir, he'll want to rub the offenders' faces in it, just because he's Johnny, and that's what he does. So expect more fur next time you see him.
So no, attacking Johnny will not make him change his mind on fur. And if Friends of Animals have half a brain in their head, they know that. Weir is being accused of attention seeking behavior, but in reality, it's Friends of Animals who are using Weir as a way to get publicity.
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- Mar 22, 2004
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Who the heck are you, his therapist?
I don't think anyone will deter him from his opinion and actions, just like I don't think anyone will be able to radicalise his attitude on this by protesting.
He made up his mind, others don't agree and since he is a public figure, they speak openly out against him. He obviously thinks that he is right on this; so what's the problem? Some radical Muslims may think that we (= Christian Western European Women) are a bunch of slutty heretics, I don't lose sleep over that - because in my opinion I am not a slutty heretic. Same goes for Johnny, he does nothing wrong in his opinion, why should he care if a bunch of treehuggers (including me) think so?
