American judge asking to be more strict with Plush and Jouby at Olys

[plushyta]

Plushyta, it's actually ironic cos if my memory doesn't fool me, Titi is a big Jouby fan (if it's indeed the same person as on the Brian Joubert Discussion Group) so I cannot see why/how she would manipulate such a comment. :sheesh::think:

Bad translation of Plushy's sentences from Russian to Slovak... she dont good hear, understand, slovenliness ...? There have many possible reasons... :think:
I do not know, I know only that it is the only place where the sentence appeared

 

[seniorita]

Plushenko was probably talking about the quad entrance, cause that he had said in other interviews as well in the past. I wish someone had avideo from bratislava to listen what he says in russian(not that i would understand, maybe someone else will)

The last article seems to clear things out and mr Inman is right. L equipe took a mail and made it a fuss and thats the only thing bad in this whole joke that went out of proportions now. Oh and they chose Sale to judge Evgeni to justify the article...Nice..There are many ways to say your opinion in public, when you dont like what you see..That was tasteless and without style. I have seen her commentating abilities in Olympic Ice in 2006, didnt expect anything better from her.

Mr Judge had placed michelle third???

 

[gsrossano]

I wonder how the e-mail got to the media. A friend of a fiend of a friend sends it? Or someone on the distribution list who has a national or personal interest that they think is more important than the good of their sport? Just goes to show the fundamental warning of e-mail is true -- beware of putting in an e-mail anything you can't live with being seen in public. It would be interesting to see if any French or Russian judges are on the distribution list, but the addresses are not all plain names of the recipients.

 

[Mathman]

Mr Judge had placed michelle third???[/SIZE]

Yes, indeed he did. Kwan fans didn't like it, but Inman (and figure skating) received a lot of favorable publicity in the U.S. press because he judged what he saw, rather than being swayed by misplaced patriotism and politics.

Inman, by the way, is known as an expert in music. He is very particular about musical espression in a skating program.

 

[dorispulaski]

Somebody has to be the fan of PCS components being scored as separate components, rather than incrementally from Skating Skills, but I'm glad Inman isn't judging at Olympics. Lobbying for or against any skaters by a judge of that event is just not something that I think should be done, however according to the rules or well intentioned.

Inman did put his money where his mouth is when he gave Johnny such a low transitions score in the SP at Nationals.

 

[janetfan]

At this rate judge Inman is not going to be anybody's favorite - the Plushy fans, Joubert fans, Kwan fans, and now the Johnny fans are not going to be in his corner.

BTW, if I recall, Inman was "so patriotic" that after he decided Michelle did not deserve Gold, he passed over Irina and gave it to Sarah. Not sure if Irina fans would find him so neutral.

Or maybe I have that wrong.

 

[Mathman]

BTW, if I recall, Inman was "so patriotic" that after he decided Michelle did not deserve Gold, he passed over Irina and gave it to Sarah. Not sure if Irina fans would find him so neutral.

It was interesting how that all played out in the press at the time. To win the gold medal, Michelle only had to beat Irina for second in the long program, she didn't have to beat Sarah. If the judges had gone Sarah, Michelle, Irina, then Michelle would have won overall.

The take on Irina in the U.S press, on the other hand, was that it would have been the disgrace of the ages if Irina -- ugh! -- had been placed ahead of Sarah. What were those four judges smoking who did exactly that?

 

[plushyta]

... Oh and they chose Sale to judge Evgeni to justify the article...Nice..There are many ways to say your opinion in public, when you dont like what you see...

Is not her partner David Pelletier (after winning of Plushenko on the Rostelecom Cup's) said that he can bet all your money, that will Plushy win gold at the Olympics? :think:

 

[seniorita]

Is not her partner David Pelletier (after winning of Plushenko on the Rostelecom Cup's) said that he can bet all your money, that will Plushy win gold at the Olympics? :think:

Maybe she has a separate bank account.

 

[plushyta]

Maybe she has a separate bank account.

Oh, I made mistake: "HIS money"

 

[janetfan]

Maybe Plushy should learn not to complain if Joubert or any other skater gets higher transition marks than he does.
It only draws attention to something he is missing. :yes:

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

The articles on this are reading a lot more into it than was actually in the e-mail. Joe is keenly interested that the program components should be judged correctly, and that is all the e-mail is about. Joubert and Plushenko are mentioned by name only because Plushenko was quoted mentioning Joubert.

As a bit of back story, entirely separate from the e-mail, there has been a lot of discussion within the ISU the past year on how the components should be judged. A series of videos were created whose birthing were quite controversial. David Dore and Ted Barton were intimately involved with creating these. Plushenko's 2006 Olympic performance was a part of this controversy. And now, though he did not know it, Plushenko has basically said for that controversy, you know, the people who criticize us for having no transitions are right, we don't.

To me that is the interesting part of this. Many (myself included) are concerned whether the judges (how many really) will use reputation judging for the components and give high marks that are undeserved. It will be interesting to see who relies on reputation judging even after the skater himself says he has no transitions.

Good interesting post! However, we will never know who those judges using reputation as an issue for scoring. At least the diehard fans will not. None of us thought Plush should not have won the event, but just about everyone thought his scores were off- the-wall. There are nervous judges about reputation, and I am sure in the Olys, he will be held up higher whether deservedly or not. Aren't the judges supposed to score a number in a range with other judges or lose their judgship? if so, that must have an effect on scoring. Presumably high profiled contestants affect judges acores.
But diehard fans know nothing about discussions going on within the ISU, or the results of such discussions. Why so much secrecy in figure skating? Are all judged sports believers in secrecy?

 

[skatemom1122]

What a nightmare! No matter what you do...figure skating will ALWAYS have scandals. You could change the judging system 1,000 times.......people will always find a way to bend the rules.

 

[seniorita]

Originally Posted by seniorita
Maybe she has a separate bank account.

Oh, I made mistake: "HIS money"

actually it was a joke, concerning the completely different opinion between her and her husband but i m not sure it came across as funny as I thought. But well, I laughed

 

[seniorita]

at least this is funnier
http://www.requiredelements.com/2010/2/10/1304324/let-the-scandals-begin

since slovakia video is nowhere to be seen to listen to what Plushenko said

this is the day he arrived back in russia

"None expected me to skate well and none wanted it. Plushenko's name was no longer interesting on�the figure skating world. In America, figure skating business is falling, in Canada too, in Europe so-so. After the 2006 Olympics there were so many projects in every channel and skating became very popular. A lot of shows appeared, and why? Because at the Olympics we got three gold medals and one bronze, and that result wasn't share with any other country, so of course all the countries want to see their athletes on the podium so they could be some business from it. It's normal."

Does the audience should wait for a new jump combination at the Olympics? Plushenko thinks that he needs to what he already showed at the European Championships."But we need to finish working on the step sequence and make better transitions. That's right now the most important thing. All that I know what to do, do it from here to the Olympic Games. From my training to the Olympic Games", - he stressed.
At the Olympics, most of his rivals will come from Japan and America. Evgeni Plushenko does not hide the fact that he monitors the performances of his competitors on the other side of the ocean.

"Of course, I watch them all. I know how they all skate, it's not the first time I'm watching them skate and I have perform with them before. They are very promising athletes and there are 10 athletes from around the world that could claim places at the podium. They are Canadian, the Americans, the Japaneses, a Swiss and a Frenchman...Two Frenchmen. Therefore, all of them will be ready, everyone will fight for it.But my goal is not skate with them,is not compete against them, my goal is just to make the elements planned."

 

[colleen o'neill]

That's more like it..( the sensible quote from Plushenko ) and here's another article ( but same photo ) on the CTV site with Mike Slipchuk of Skate Canada trying to spread oil on the waters. There's also a video interview with Beverly Smith right beside it .

http://www.ctvolympics.ca/figure-sk...nadian+officials+downplay+judging+controversy

Here's hoping things will be smoothed over by the time of the competition.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Doris - What about that toe tapper who was caught, got a slap on the wrist and is still judging? and Legournge is back judging isn't she or at least soon to be.

 

[janetfan]

What a nightmare! No matter what you do...figure skating will ALWAYS have scandals. You could change the judging system 1,000 times.......people will always find a way to bend the rules.

Unfortunately I believe you are right.
But what nerve from that American judge! Who does he think he is asking for fair and honest marks at the Olympics

Doesn't he know such remarks will upset the big Euro federations :yes:

And what about tradition? Since when have the Olympic skating competitions ever had fair, unbiased marks. :think:

This judge is just too radical and should be suspended for asking for fair scoring. :sheesh:

 

[Sk8n Mama]

So, from what I read from Colleen's links:

1. It is fairly normal for a judge who conducts judging seminars to discuss points of judging in emails with collegues.

2. If Inman was doing anything, he was criticizing the judging on the Euros panel by pointing out that even Plushy said that he and Brian Joubert have no Transitions because they focus on the jumps, yet they had marks in the mid/high 7s for Transitions which is still a strong mark.

3. Plushy makes a valid point that the PCs can still be used to play favourites. There's still a lot of subjectivity in "Musicality", "Interpretation" and "Presentation" and, as he points out, even "Transitions".

4. Inman is asking the judges to judge by the ISU rulebook and judge what they see on the ice, and not to just pick numbers out of the air for that second mark. Is this not a valid point???

The only reason this is controversial is because the PCS happens to be the strength of the North American guys and not Plushy/Joubert so it can be twisted to appear as if Inman is angling for the North American guys. But I come back to this: the CoP is not new, Transitions is a score clearly defined by the ISU ("Minimal Crosscuts") right on the website for anyone to see. Plushy and Joubert have the same access to it as everyone else. If they knew Transitions was something they'd be scored on and didn't consider it important in the choreography phase of their programs, then their Federations shouldn't be complaining when a judge says, "hey, please don't give guys who admit themseleves that they have no Transitions a good Transitions score at the Olympics. It's not fair to the guys who plan their programs according to ISU standards."

At the end of the day, I also can't help thinking that we're talking about fractions of a point when we're talking Transitions. Let's say, for argument's sake, Inamn's words rattle the judging panel, and they do the unthinkable and give Plushy (gasp) 6.8 for Transitions compared to an 8 for Patrick Chan. If Plushy does everything he plans to in the LP, that 1.2 isn't going to make any difference at all! He's still going to be miles aheads because of his TES! The skater for whom that mark is important isn't Plushy, it's Joubert and that's why Didier Gailhaguet has jumped on this bandwagon, and that's why it's being published like this in L'Equipe.

What Gailhaguet either doesn't think about or doesn't care about is: a) this puts extra media attention and pressure on Joubert, imo, making it more difficult for Brian to perform his best (judging controversy isn't going to matter a whit if the guy succombs to the pressure and has a splatfest) b) this kind of deliberate twisting of facts to create controversy hurts the entire sport of figure skating.

Edited because Janetfan posted while I was editing. Read that after mine posted and LOL.

 

[schiele]

Unfortunately I believe you are right.
But what nerve from that American judge! Who does he think he is asking for fair and honest marks at the Olympics

Doesn't he know such remarks will upset the big Euro federations :yes:

And what about tradition? Since when have the Olympic skating competitions ever had fair, unbiased marks. :think:

This judge is just too radical and should be suspended for asking for fair scoring. :sheesh:

I don't think the problem here is with the message he's giving and don't see how this is suggested. The problem here is timing. And the naming names (twist it as you like, he named names at the end). There are several other issues with faulty judging like how the rest of the PCS is scored (we have seen so many other examples of excessive PCS scoring), which are not discussed or how there are other top skaters with not much transitions (like Oda) who are not drawn to such scrutiny so shortly before the games or how some of the GOEs are automatically given based on reputation instead of what is really performed that night. But none of this seems to be "taught" so shortly before games..