Plushenko & other Russians comment on the Men's Event

[aftertherain]

I don't think he would have though, considering his score. Dai's FS score was 10+ points off of Evan's score and a 4t is worth 9.8 right? And he didn't lose a full 10 points for falling on it so I think had he been clean Evan still would have won, right?

Well, I meant if he won with a clean quad and had a better program. I guess I didn't make it clear in my post. Oops!

 

[jennylovskt]

Daisuke would not of been satisfied without trying his quad. His practise reports stated that his quad was definitely not consistent. I don't think he cares about the loss of points on the quad or about the "terrible strategy". If he tried his quad regardless of landing or falling, he can say he tried his best. Sure Evan skated smart and had a good strategy, but in reality his skating was safe. I prefer to see skaters who take risks where it is not only about getting points.

That's what I respect about him the most. I guess if Takahashi won, or Lysacek won with a quad in LP, Plushenko will be gladly bowed away.

 

[museksk8r]

I don't think he would have though, considering his score. Dai's FS score was 10+ points off of Evan's score and a 4t is worth 9.8 right? And he didn't lose a full 10 points for falling on it so I think had he been clean Evan still would have won, right?

Takahashi's quad was downgraded to a triple, plus he fell, so he received zero points for that jumping pass . . . look at the protocol. Had he landed a clean quad, there's no doubt in my mind at all that he'd be Olympic champion.

In fact, if you look at the protocol of what Dai had planned and add back the points he would have had for a clean skate, he would have beaten Lysacek by a good amount of points. Mind you, he received negative GOE on 2 other jumping passes besides the quad and his 3flip+3toe combo was downgraded to a 3flip+2toe. It's like I said all along, a clean Daisuke will always beat a clean Evan in the LP when you look at their planned elements and compare Takahashi's exquisite quality with Lysacek's lackluster quality.

 

[silverlake22]

Takahashi's quad was downgraded to a triple, plus he fell, so he received zero points for that jumping pass . . . look at the protocol. Had he landed a clean quad, there's no doubt in my mind at all that he'd be Olympic champion.

Oh okay, I thought he got credit for the full rotation. In that case if he had been clean and won, I don't think Plushy would have been mad because the winner would have done a quad.

 

[janetfan]

That's what I respect about him the most. I guess if Takahashi won, or Lysacek won with a quad in LP, Plushenko will be gladly bowed away.

Since when do skaters need Plushy's approval for their jump content?

Who the hell is he? A judge, or the head of ISU?
He used to be the king and now he is reduced to acting like a small child :disapp: :scowl:

 

[museksk8r]

He used to be the king and now he is reduced to acting like a small child :disapp: :scowl:

Don't be fooled by this result . . . comparing their records, 3-time Olympic medalist (1 gold, 2 silver) and 3-time World Champion Evgeni is still the king in comparison to 1 Olympic medal (gold) and 1-time World Champion Lysacek.

 

[janetfan]

Don't be fooled by this result . . . comparing their records, 3-time Olympic medalist (1 gold, 2 silver) and 3-time World Champion Evgeni is still the king in comparison to 1 Olympic medal (gold) and 1-time World Champion Lysacek.

Plushy does not show the behavior of a great champion. He behaves like a small child who lost his toy.
I know the difference even if you don't.

And if Plushy is as great as you claim - then it is obvious that Evan is pretty good too for defeating him. And that is what Evan has done. He took Plushy's Gold medal and his dignity from him and has left him crying like a small child.

Atleast Joubert loses like a man and puts the blame on himself.
I think Plushy has tarnished his reputation and will be remembered now for how he lost.

Perhaps some of this is Mishin's fault because he has made some very stupid comments and has ordered an investigation.
The probelem is no one listens to mishin because he acts like a fool and not a famous coach.

No investigation just whining from the poor losers.
Sorry for harsh words but that's the way it is and like Evan I am disappointed by such childish behavior.

 

[museksk8r]

Plushy does not show the behavior of a great champion. He behaves like a small child who lost his toy.
I know the difference even if you don't.

And if Plushy is as great as you claim - then it is obvious that Evan is pretty good too for defeating him. And that is what Evan has done. He took Plushy's Gold medal and his dignity from him and has left him crying like a small child.

Atleast Joubert loses like a man and puts the blame on himself.
I think Plushy has tarnished his reputation and will be remembered now for how he lost.

Perhaps some of this is Mishin's fault because he has made some very stupid comments and has ordered an investigation.
The probelem is no one listens to mishin because he acts like a fool and not a famous coach.

No investigation just whining from the poor losers.
Sorry for harsh words but that's the way it is and like Evan I am disappointed by such childish behavior.

ugh, you bought the American media's koolaid. Yeah, poor victimized, gracious, holier than thou Evan . . . feel sorry for the gold medalist being bullied by the evil Russian silver medalist. Lysacek will never be remembered in this sport years from now the way that the dominant Plushenko will be remembered. Lysacek is milking the public sympathy for all its worth . . . he should seriously consider a career in politics. He has the art of public deception mastered. He's not hurting from Plushy's reaction; I'd better guess he's laughing his way straight to the bank.

 

[yunasashafan]

The bottom line for me is that, per the current rules, the Quad gets you around 5 extra points above the lowest triple (toe), and 3 extra points above the highest (lutz). Plushy and his team knew this coming in. Evan gained 3+ points by backloading his program (duh) and 1.5 points with an extra DOUBLE TOE. It came down to GOEs, and Evan had more difficult entrances to his jumps while Plushy had some shaky landings. That's it. Done.

Now whether or not 5 points only is a fair advantage for the Quad is a different story. The rules are the rules and Plushy and his team can read and count. If you don't like the rules, try to change them (not an option now, maybe something can be done now for the future) or don't play.

And being a sore loser is not helping!!

PS I have a lot of respect for Plushy's monstrous accomplishement, but all this bad sportsmanship is starting to eat at it.

 

[Nadine]

I'm disappointed by you, janetfan, because you act like that young Canadian lady that was sitting in front of me at the Pacific Coliseum on Thursday, 2/18/10, for the Mens Final in Figure Skating.:disagree:

Btw, I honestly do think that Evan Lysacek won fair & square, he was magnificent, and that is no exaggeration. I was there, I saw it with my own two eyes. And I also saw Evgeni Plushenko, whom was equally great, but alas the difference between these two IMHO came down to the program itself. Evan's program was better, by far, in my humble honest opinion.

That said, it was one for the ages, the type of competition that I like to see. Evan won against the greatest male figure skater of all time, and that's something he'll remember for as long as he lives (similar to Sarah Hughes victory against Michelle Kwan at the 2002 Olympics). To win skating your best against the greatest skater of all time means that much more!:thumbsup:

Evgeni is called the KING, and Michelle is called the KWEEN for a reason, a very good reason. Their respective accomplishments & longevity in the sport we all love is unprecedented. To win against either one is rare (this is Evgeni's 3rd loss in 8 yrs.!) & something that the winner will remember for a lifetime! CONGRATULATIONS, EVAN!

 

[janetfan]

ugh, you bought the American media's koolaid. Yeah, poor victimized, gracious, holier than thou Evan . . . feel sorry for the gold medalist being bullied by the evil Russian silver medalist. Lysacek will never be remembered in this sport years from now the way that the dominant Plushenko will be remembered.

Not at all, I am simply commenting on the facts. Evan won. Plushy lost. Evan has acted graciously so far and Plushy and Mishin have shown exceptionally bad sportsmanship.

Laugh your silly head off. I don't mind if you want to act like Plushy and Mishin.

 

[museksk8r]

I don't mind if you want to act like Plushy and Mishin.

Oh, was that supposed to hurt my feelings? Massive fail on your part!

 

[Scout]

Sigh. Why is this so hard for some people to understand.

It's not about strategy. Dai himself said why he is doing the quad. Do you even understand what he is trying to say with that? Nobody is saying that falling on a quad deserves a gold medal but it seems like you and a few others are so brainwashed when it comes to winning you are incapable of understanding a different concept even when it is explained to you step by step. It's not about winning only. It's about winning in a worthy manner. He didn't care about strategy. He cared about feeling like a worthy champion. That is worth ten gold Olympic medals that people like the drone may get.

Part of my problem may have been that I didn't read or see the interview in which Dai mentioned his reasons for putting in the quad. I was simply giving my input in response to your post and your comment about putting in a jump that would probably be unsuccessful. In that regard, I lacked background info, and I apologize. I do greatly respect all those who attempt the quad, whether successful or not. However, I am someone who

1) did not want either Lysacek or Plushenko win
2) does not enjoy Evan's performances
3) would have loved to see Dai win
4) am a fan of the quad, and enjoy seeing it attempted

However, you talk about the journey to victory, and being a worthy champion. Why is Evan not a worthy champion? How is his journey mediocre or less fulfilling than Dai’s? It might not be the way you or Dai would want to win, but that doesn’t make it mediocre or less significant. It doesn’t diminish the value of the victory. Dai may feel like he needs the quad to be a worthy champion. Evan does not. There’s no right and wrong here. Each is entitles to their belief, and their program and actions reflect their beliefs. Evan can celebrate his gold, Daisuke his bronze.

If Dai would rather have a bronze with a fall on a quad, than a gold without a quad attempt – I can definitely respect that. But why can’t you understand that there are different ways to win, different paths to victory, different definitions of true masters of their craft that are all valid and respectable?

Evan will be remembered. Not by everybody. Not by me. Not by you, I would assume. But by a lot of people. A lot of people love and respect him and think he’s a brilliant skater. But you don’t have to trash him or his victory. Or me for that matter.

 

[janetfan]

Oh, was that supposed to hurt my feelings? Massive fail on your part!

Let's stick to the discussion and leave your "feelings" out of this.
Reading some of Mishin's comments today was surprising. He has been reduced to calling the judges names like "cyclops" and said there would be an investigation. More reading revealed the Russian Federation has asked for no such thing and an official conceded they didn't play the CoP game right.

There are opinions and there is reality. The reality is that Plushy may be the greater skater but he wasn't the night of the LP's.

For Mishin and Plushy to behave like the Gold medal belonged to them for just showing up is incredible to me.
Maybe at Euros where apparently many of the skaters do shake in their boots is one thing. But I saw little fear of Plushy from Evan, Dai, Johnny, and several others.

Johnny did not play the Cop game to the max even though he skated very well. Dai made a choice that I don't understand. I thought his skating was the best by far but I also read the reports and he was not landing the quad in practice. He looked happy to be on the podium and it is not for me to question his strategy.

Evan came to win a medal and was determined to skate hs best and see how the others would do. Since skating under CoP is supposed to be a sport with strategy I can't fault Evan or his team for playing the game so well and winning the OGM.

I can't say the same about plushy and his team as I think they blew it BIG TIME.

I will always remember how Evan won and how Plushy lost. You may forget about it by tomorrow but your persistent posts are very revealing. I doubt if you will forget this anytime soon.

 

[jennylovskt]

Since when do skaters need Plushy's approval for their jump content?

Who the hell is he? A judge, or the head of ISU?
He used to be the king and now he is reduced to acting like a small child :disapp: :scowl:

FYI, Plushenko is above all. Even the judge of the judges Mr. Inman would listen to him. Where is Mr. Inman when we need him? He needs to send out e-mails to 60+ judges addressing the quad values because Plushenko said so.

 

[watchvancouver]

I trully enjoy the defensive tone of a mediocre skater's fans, hilarious.
I really really hope that Chan will able to snatch the world title next month by landing only one 3A. His fans will continue to educate us on he wins fair and square by milking those superb 'in-betweens' .

 

[janetfan]

FYI, Plushenko is above all. Even the judge of the judges Mr. Inman would listen to him. Where is Mr. Inman when we need him? He needs to send out e-mails to 60+ judges addressing the quad values because Plushenko said so.

Don't you think it is a little bit late for that?

And try to remember - Inman is a specialist in the pcs/artistic part of the CoP.
You will need an ISU TES training specialist to notify others about problems in the TES scoring.

Didn't Evan and Plushy tie each other in the pcs? Apparently Inman had little effect or maybe there was even a backlash against Evan because his pcs were not the highest.

I have made many posts about various problems with the CoP.
I understand Plushy fans and Evan bashers for being unhappy about the results.

But I honestly don't think it is Evan's fault. Evan is not a judge or tech specialist. As you know he is a skater. I see very few complaints about the CoP although i think you did complain about it.

Joesitz also correctly pointed out anger is ill spent bashing Evan when unhappy fans should be bashing the system and/or the judges.

If Evan had beaten Plushy by 4-8 points on the pcs then you might have a valid complaint against Inman. But the breakdown of the scoring doesn't show Plushy lost because of the pcs. He lost from the TES.

All of the Evan bashing in the world won't change things. All of the excuses and whining from Mishin and Plushy won't change things.

But a better CoP could have changed things.

 

[ranjake]

i really respect plushenko's legacy, and applaud his comeback. i just think his program was...bad. not close to plush standards. all the standing around? the choreo? even the jumps that night? i guess i'm just surprised so many are defending it. he's way better than that program.

 

[jennylovskt]

Don't you think it is a little bit late for that?

No, it's not. Plushenko is still competing. It's for the next competition.

Didn't Evan and Plushy tie each other in the pcs? Apparently Inman had little effect or maybe there was even a backlash against Evan because his pcs were not the highest.

I have made many posts about various problems with the CoP.
I understand Plushy fans and Evan bashers for being unhappy about the results.

But I honestly don't think it is Evan's fault. Evan is not a judge or tech specialist. As you know he is a skater. I see very few complaints about the CoP although i think you did complain about it.

Joesits also correctly pointed out anher is ill spent bashing Evan when unhappy fans should be bashing the system and/or the judges.

If Evan had beaten Plushy by 4-8 points on the pcs then you might have a valid complaint against Inman. But the breakdown of the scoring doesn't show Plushy lost because of the pcs. He lost from the TES.

Evan's PCS was toooooo high compared with Takahashi's even though Takahashi's PCS number was a little higher. Evan's PCS should not be at the same level with the likes of the true artists.

Also, without a quad, the SP score was around 85. At GPF, his was inflated to 89. This time, his even above 90. Lysacek's SP score was rediculous. That's the reason that he could get the total score of 1.31 above Plushenko in the end.

You have taken the tone that Lysacek took. But he shouldn't get such high PCS in the first place.

All of the Evan bashing in the world won't change things. All of the excuses and whining from Mishin and Plushy won't change things.

But a better CoP could have changed things.

What about the Plushenko bashers like you? So childish - I could use the same word for you too.

All the controversies are good! It could result in changing CoP, raise the quad value.

 

[janetfan]

No, it's not. Plushenko is still competing. It's for the next competition.



Evan's PCS was toooooo high compared with Takahashi's even though Takahashi's PCS number was a little higher. Evan's PCS should not be at the same level with the likes of the true artists.

Also, without a quad, the SP score was around 85. At GPF, his was inflated to 89. This time, his even above 90. Lysacek's SP score was rediculous. That's the reason that he could get the total score of 1.31 above Plushenko in the end.

You have taken the tone that Lysacek took. But he shouldn't get such high PCS in the first place.



What about the Plushenko bashers like you? So childish - I could use the same word for you too.

All the contraversies are good! It could result in changing CoP, raise the quad value.

I was quiet the night after the LP and didn't get involved too much until the Evan bashing reached ridiculous levels.
Then I regretfully get as bad as anyone else.
A problem with the pcs is that some of it is subjective. You won't admit it but you object to Evans's style just the way others may object to Joubert's style.

But on the TES it is not hard to see Evan is a better spinner and although I hate Evan's and Plushy's steps Evan almost always gets good marks on his steps.
Evan did what - twice as many jumps in the second half of his program as Plushy? That is alot of points Plushy conceded to Evan.

So no quad for Evan - but whoever heard of an Olympic champion with no triple filp?
Even the Ladies must have this jump to win and Plushy didn't do it?

If anyone is skating like a lady it is Plushy without a triple flip. If he did one he would still be the OC. If Plushy did anything in the last minute of his program besides blowing kisses to the judges and a pelvic thrust he would still be OC.

This whole thing is a non-controversy. Plushy and Mishin deserve to lose for sheer incompetence bordering on arrogance with a big dash of stupidity. They blew it plain and simple.

Plushy will always be remembered in history as a great skater. Evan will be remembered as the one who beat him in Vancouver.