Excellent Stats: Yuna and Mao, Senior Seasons ( brought from Yuna Forum )

[Lilith11]

Ah.. I think silverlake started her post "in short YUna wins", and ended with "end of story". So for him/her the story ended, Yuna wins. But in reality, unless one or both retire, the story has not ended. And BTW, this thread is "stats brought to GS from Yuna forum" not about the raging debate of who is better.


Oh where is the anger, I didn't use any emoticon.

I do not visit skater specific forums, not even Michelle forum, so I have no idea how vastly is the difference.

If you don't know the difference then, please don't make sweeping generalizations. And you don't need to use emoticons; I'm perfectly capable of picking the tone in a post you know XD Furthermore, you seem to have disregarded silver's "They are both amazing." Yes, s/he has a Yu-na bias; BUT s/he acknowledges that both girls are amazing at the same time. And that is her/his conclusion based on what s/he has seen.

 

[rtureck]

If you don't know the difference then, please don't make sweeping generalizations. And you don't need to use emoticons; I'm perfectly capable of picking the tone in a post you know XD Furthermore, you seem to have disregarded silver's "They are both amazing." Yes, s/he has a Yu-na bias; BUT s/he acknowledges that both girls are amazing at the same time. And that is her/his conclusion based on what s/he has seen.

OK got me on the generalization. If Silverlake concluded that Yuna wins, she was talking about Mao vs Yuna's skating records, how do you conclude that she meant end of the raging debate from fans? There is no end of story in reality unless one or both retire(s). I can say that without any bias

 

[Tonichelle]

Was this posted here with permission? Or is this just something you snagged?

 

[silverlake22]

Allow me to clarify. In saying "end of story" I was just making the conclusion that AT THIS POINT IN TIME, Yuna is better than Mao - she is ranked higher, won more competitions recently, and has only lost twice in the past two seasons whereas Mao did not even make it to the GPF this season and didn't medal at Worlds last year.

In the future, if both girls continue to compete, of course it could change and Mao could overtake Yuna. Do I think that will happen? No. But, if Mao gets her 3lz and 3sal back and picks better programs, then could it happen? Absolutely.

I am a bit Yuna biased but I am not a Mao hater. They are both incredible skaters. I think Yuna is a better all-around skater and prefer her skating to Mao's but my views are similar to many others and can be supported by recent results. Yuna Kim is the Olympic Gold Medalist, Yuna Kim was a heavy favorite to win OGM, Yuna Kim has only lost 2 competitions (where she came in 2nd by a slim margin to Mao) in the past 2 seasons. I think it is a well known fact that Yuna is "better" than Mao AT THIS POINT in the eyes of most people.

That is all I was trying to say. Please don't bite my head off

 

[rtureck]

So your "end of story" is not the end of the raging fans debate as Lilth said, just a temporary pause at this point in time? and not "end of fan war"?

So Lilth you don't read minds (at least not silverlake's mind and definitely not my nind) l LOL, you don't know whether I was angry or not when I was talking to Goldenskater do you? Now please don't bite my head off

 

[silverlake22]

So your "end of story" is not the end of the raging debate among fans as Lilth said? So Lilth you don't read mind after all, and you don't know whether I was angry or not when I was talking to Goldenskater? Now please don't bite my head off

Don't worry I won't. I just think it's silly that people keep arguing who's better when the results and in and the writing is on the wall....all in Yuna's favor. Yeah, she lost Worlds by 7 points because she had mistakes, but she also won the Olympics by 23 points. Mao is capable of beating Yuna but at this point Mao is not capable of scoring 150+ in the FS like Yuna has done, and with a clean SP she wasn't able to score 78+ points like Yuna has done or even 76 points which Yuna has done several times now. That is the reality. Maybe next season it will change but until then Queen Yuna rules

 

[rtureck]

Don't worry I won't.

You won't what?? Try to read minds" Since you are quoting my reply to Lillth about reading minds.
Anyway you think it is silly to argue who is better? Did I miss something? Is this a thread about arguing who is better? I thought this is a thread about stat brought to GS from YuNa forum?

I just think it's silly that people keep arguing who's better when the results and in and the writing is on the wall....all in Yuna's favor. Yeah, she lost Worlds by 7 points because she had mistakes, but she also won the Olympics by 23 points. Mao is capable of beating Yuna but at this point Mao is not capable of scoring 150+ in the FS like Yuna has done, and with a clean SP she wasn't able to score 78+ points like Yuna has done or even 76 points which Yuna has done several times now. That is the reality. Maybe next season it will change but until then Queen Yuna rules

Now silverlake that is more like it to be a superfan. Afterall FS is a sport, and bragging right is part of sports at least for some fans. So I think it is absolutely OK to brag. I mean in any other sports like hockey, some fans will be bragging, probably in a more direct way, e.g. my hockey team will kick your team's butt . I guess only in FS some fans are trying to brag in the round about way of "lets look at the fantastic stats, I think they are both fantastic". No need to hide behind the "they are both amazing" .

 

[Goldenskater]

Was this posted here with permission? Or is this just something you snagged?

yes~ of course~:agree:

 

[silverlake22]

You won't what?? Try to read minds" Since you are quoting my reply to Lillth about reading minds.
Anyway you think it is silly to argue who is better? Did I miss something? Is this a thread about arguing who is better? I thought this is a thread about stat brought to GS from YuNa forum?

Now silverlake that is more like it to be a superfan. Afterall FS is a sport, and bragging right is part of sports at least for some fans. So I think it is absolutely OK to brag. I mean in any other sports like hockey, some fans will be bragging, probably in a more direct way, e.g. my hockey team will kick your team's butt . I guess only in FS some fans are trying to brag in the round about way of "lets look at the fantastic stats, I think they are both fantastic". No need to hide behind the "they are both amazing" .

True true, but I mean Mao's 3a is sicknasty. And don't even get me started on hockey, I'm probably an even bigger hockey fan than figure skating fan :agree:!

 

[Cerulean]

I see a lot of posts from people who seemed to have joined to discuss YUNA exclusively and her alledged superiority to all creatures. It's so old already.....

So? What's wrong with that?

Seriously. If Yuna attracts a new group of admirers to take an interest in a sport that most people consider fluff, good.

But just so I won't be accused of being Yuna-focused, I'll throw in a few other names:

Miki, Rippon, Witt, Pele, Oprah, George W. Bush...

 

[Mathman]

True true, but I mean Mao's 3a is sicknasty.

OK, I am assuming that "sicknasty" is a good thing?

In the future, if both girls continue to compete, of course it could change and Mao could overtake Yuna. Do I think that will happen? No. But, if Mao gets her 3lz and 3sal back and picks better programs, then could it happen? Absolutely.

I think the triple Lutz is the key. Her programs are fine, and she can count (as can Kim) on uniformly high program component marks across the board, etc.

But a lady with a triple Axel and no triple Lutz is like a man with a quad but no triple Axel. You give back most of the advantage that the higher-level jump brings.

For instance, if Mao does 3A and 3A+2T = 16.9 points, and Kim counters with 3Lz and 3Lz+4T = 16.0 points (plus GOE), then Kim is just as sicknasty as Asada, and the triple Axel advantage has disappeared altogether.

The ISU just killed Asada when they changed the rule to penalize flutzes. By trying to fix the flutz, Asada lost the jump entirely.

 

[cooper]

So? What's wrong with that?

Seriously. If Yuna attracts a new group of admirers to take an interest in a sport that most people consider fluff, good.

But just so I won't be accused of being Yuna-focused, I'll throw in a few other names:

Miki, Rippon, Witt, Pele, Oprah, George W. Bush...

WORD.

I don't want to start again, I got 2 notifications already.

Carry on.

 

[breeze]

OK, I am assuming that "sicknasty" is a good thing?



I think the triple Lutz is the key. Her programs are fine, and she can count (as can Kim) on uniformly high program component marks across the board, etc.

But a lady with a triple Axel and no triple Lutz is like a man with a quad but no triple Axel. You give back most of the advantage that the higher-level jump brings.

For instance, if Mao does 3A and 3A+2T = 16.9 points, and Kim counters with 3Lz and 3Lz+4T = 16.0 points (plus GOE), then Kim is just as sicknasty as Asada, and the triple Axel advantage has disappeared altogether.

The ISU just killed Asada when they changed the rule to penalize flutzes. By trying to fix the flutz, Asada lost the jump entirely.

Doesn't the base value for 3A and 3A+2T amount up to 17.7? (8.2+8.2+1.3)
And if Yuna does 3Lz and 3Lz+4T, the base value will be 21.8!

I agree that bringing back the Lz and S jumps will be the key for Mao, especially Lz. Then having 3A makes it at least potentially possible to have 8 triples in the LP, which will give her a huge advantage over ALL other ladies (btw I think the base value for 3A is already high enough because of this), and make up for the advantage that Yuna has in the SP. And then her average score throughout a season will be closer to Yuna's than to Joannie's. Of course this is if Yuna continues to compete and both remain in top forms. A lot of 'if's that we will have to just wait and see.

 

[silverlake22]

OK, I am assuming that "sicknasty" is a good thing?



I think the triple Lutz is the key. Her programs are fine, and she can count (as can Kim) on uniformly high program component marks across the board, etc.

But a lady with a triple Axel and no triple Lutz is like a man with a quad but no triple Axel. You give back most of the advantage that the higher-level jump brings.

For instance, if Mao does 3A and 3A+2T = 16.9 points, and Kim counters with 3Lz and 3Lz+4T = 16.0 points (plus GOE), then Kim is just as sicknasty as Asada, and the triple Axel advantage has disappeared altogether.

The ISU just killed Asada when they changed the rule to penalize flutzes. By trying to fix the flutz, Asada lost the jump entirely.

3lz+4t?! . I think you meant 3lz-3t. And I agree the comparison is similar. Men who do quads don't always win though, and in the SP it doesn't seem to be of any help at all. I mean, Jobert and Verner have been doing 4t-3t in their SPs for the past few seasons and still don't manage to outscore skaters like Chan and Takahashi who do combos that are worth almost 4 points less.

About the lutz, I think it's important to get it back. The 3a is very high risk low reward because even if it's landed, it would only earn you 2 points more than a 3lz, and under-rotating the jump costs you 5 points. In the SP especially, that's killer, because at Worlds Mao's combination was worth less than 5 points, so Mirai even without getting her 3-3 ratified was still able to beat her because a 3lz-2t is worth about 2.5 points more.

 

[Mathman]

Doesn't the base value for 3A and 3A+2T amount up to 17.7? (8.2+8.2+1.3)

What!? A triple Axel is worth 8.2 points? That's a lot of points. That's an awful lot of points. What are people talking about who want it to go even higher?

 

[silverlake22]

What!? A triple Axel is worth 8.2 points? That's a lot of points. That's an awful lot of points. What are people talking about who want it to go even higher?

It is but a downgraded 3a is more costly than any other triple downgrade, losing you 5 points instead of roughly 3.

 

[rtureck]

So? What's wrong with that?

Seriously. If Yuna attracts a new group of admirers to take an interest in a sport that most people consider fluff, good.

But just so I won't be accused of being Yuna-focused, I'll throw in a few other names:

Miki, Rippon, Witt, Pele, Oprah, George W. Bush...

Cerulean, Bijoux was not "accusing" you or anyone. S/he made an observation that this thread with a title of "excellent stats of 2 skaters" was actually focused on YuNa, (with all the "queen Yuna rules") by the representative(s) from Yuna forum. I have to say reading this thread initially was confusing, because threads on stats are supposed to be neutrai, and analytical. The poster (who confrirmed that s/he is from Yuna forum, with permission from Yuna forum to post the stats) gave the appearance of starting a thread about stats, but to some readers it is Yuna focused. I thought this will be a discussion on stats (and stats discussions usually are analytical, not "in short who wins") , until one fan in post #12said "in short Yuna wins". Then later after the smoke/ mirror and fog cleared a bit, it is very clear that this is a not just a thread intended to be Yuna focused, but it is a thread brought to GS from Yuna forum for some Yuna fans to claim bragging rights (just look at #26 and 29). FS is a sports and some fans do have a need to brag, but what was confusing at first was that the bragging was hidden behind the so call "they are both so amazing". I mean if fans want to brag just brag away, why hide behind the "they are both fantastic / amazing" smoke and mirror? Why not give the thread a correct title "Yuna will kick eveyone's butt", why call it "stats on 2 skaters"?
Now what you mentioned about YUna can draw ppl to the sports e.g. that IMO belongs more to the gushing type of message. I usually see more gushing type of threads, e.g. my favorite skater is the most beautiful etc. this is the first time I see thread that is started for fans to claim bragging rights.

So if you want to gush, start a new thread and gush away, (of course it would be nice if you don't start the gush thread with a misleading title) Not sure why you feel the need to bring in Miki, Rippon.

 

[skateflatt]

Cerulean, Bijoux was not "accusing" you or anyone. S/he made an observation that this thread with a title of "excellent stats of 2 skaters" was actually focused on YuNa, (with all the "queen Yuna rules") by the representative(s) from Yuna forum. I have to say reading this thread initially was confusing, because threads on stats are supposed to be neutrai, and analytical. The poster (who confrirmed that s/he is from Yuna forum, with permission from Yuna forum to post the stats) gave the appearance of starting a thread about stats, but to some readers it is Yuna focused. I thought this will be a discussion on stats (and stats discussions usually are analytical, not "in short who wins") , until one fan in post #12said "in short Yuna wins". Then later after the smoke/ mirror and fog cleared a bit, it is very clear that this is a not just a thread intended to be Yuna focused, but it is a thread brought to GS from Yuna forum for some Yuna fans to claim bragging rights (just look at #26 and 29). FS is a sports and some fans do have a need to brag, but what was confusing at first was that the bragging was hidden behind the so call "they are both so amazing". I mean if fans want to brag just brag away, why hide behind the "they are both fantastic / amazing" smoke and mirror? Why not give the thread a correct title "Yuna will kick eveyone's butt", why call it "stats on 2 skaters"?
Now what you mentioned about YUna can draw ppl to the sports e.g. that IMO belongs more to the gushing type of message. I usually see more gushing type of threads, e.g. my favorite skater is the most beautiful etc. this is the first time I see thread that is started for fans to claim bragging rights.

So if you want to gush, start a new thread and gush away, (of course it would be nice if you don't start the gush thread with a misleading title) Not sure why you feel the need to bring in Miki, Rippon.

What makes you think it's Yuna centric? One thing it's sicken is that there is no Joannie.

 

[skateflatt]

You won't what?? Try to read minds" Since you are quoting my reply to Lillth about reading minds.
Anyway you think it is silly to argue who is better? Did I miss something? Is this a thread about arguing who is better? I thought this is a thread about stat brought to GS from YuNa forum?

Now silverlake that is more like it to be a superfan. Afterall FS is a sport, and bragging right is part of sports at least for some fans. So I think it is absolutely OK to brag. I mean in any other sports like hockey, some fans will be bragging, probably in a more direct way, e.g. my hockey team will kick your team's butt . I guess only in FS some fans are trying to brag in the round about way of "lets look at the fantastic stats, I think they are both fantastic". No need to hide behind the "they are both amazing" .

Muah as a canadian, I can clearly see who was better for the past four years.

 

[Cerulean]

Cerulean, Bijoux was not "accusing" you or anyone. S/he made an observation that this thread with a title of "excellent stats of 2 skaters" was actually focused on YuNa, (with all the "queen Yuna rules") by the representative(s) from Yuna forum. I have to say reading this thread initially was confusing, because threads on stats are supposed to be neutrai, and analytical. The poster (who confrirmed that s/he is from Yuna forum, with permission from Yuna forum to post the stats) gave the appearance of starting a thread about stats, but to some readers it is Yuna focused. I thought this will be a discussion on stats (and stats discussions usually are analytical, not "in short who wins") , until one fan in post #12said "in short Yuna wins". Then later after the smoke/ mirror and fog cleared a bit, it is very clear that this is a not just a thread intended to be Yuna focused, but it is a thread brought to GS from Yuna forum for some Yuna fans to claim bragging rights (just look at #26 and 29). FS is a sports and some fans do have a need to brag, but what was confusing at first was that the bragging was hidden behind the so call "they are both so amazing". I mean if fans want to brag just brag away, why hide behind the "they are both fantastic / amazing" smoke and mirror? Why not give the thread a correct title "Yuna will kick eveyone's butt", why call it "stats on 2 skaters"?
Now what you mentioned about YUna can draw ppl to the sports e.g. that IMO belongs more to the gushing type of message. I usually see more gushing type of threads, e.g. my favorite skater is the most beautiful etc. this is the first time I see thread that is started for fans to claim bragging rights.

So if you want to gush, start a new thread and gush away, (of course it would be nice if you don't start the gush thread with a misleading title) Not sure why you feel the need to bring in Miki, Rippon.

Eh? How is my post gushing?

What makes you think it's Yuna centric? One thing it's sicken is that there is no Joannie.

I was just throwing out random names and trying to be funny but apparently failed miserably. I shall now go sit in the corner and lurk in silence.