LOL harder does not necessarily always equate better but sometimes it may. No one is taking the attitude that 3a=winner. But FS is a sport and skaters should be advancing the sports and in terms of jumps for the ladies the next jump advancement is the 3a. Back in the days of Dorothy they were only doing 2z. EVen if the ladies are not advancing to more 3a in their programs, they certainly should have a full set of triples like in Tara and MK's time.
What is the intention about what kinds of jump content should be encouraged?
Should an automatic advantage be built in for whoever does the hardest jump or the most rotations in one jump (e.g., 3.5 vs. 3), or the most rotations in a single combination, or in the program as a whole?
Should a reward be built in for showing the best variety of jump takeoffs? I.e., should there be an incentive for a skater who can't do, e.g., triple lutz or triple loop to include double lutz or double loop even if that means leaving out a repeat other triple or double axel?
Should difficulty always trump quality?
Are there different ways to push the limits of jump content besides just adding revolutions in the air?
The loop and the Salchow are very differernt jumps. As I understand it, the Salchow takes off from the opposite leg from the landing leg, and the loop takes off from the same leg as the landing leg
Yes.
(both from back inside edges.)
No. The loop takes off from a back
outside edge -- from the exact same edge that jumps typically land on.
I guess the idea behind this proposal is that there are four main types of jump, besides Axels and setting aside edges for the moment. (By the way, even though the jump definitions say you are supposed to land on the right outside edge, there is no penalty under the IJS for landing on the inside edge, for any jump.)
Just to clarify, there is no penalty for landing on the inside edge of the opposite foot.
Take the one-foot axel, since that would be the most common example of a jump intentionally landed on the back inside edge of the usual non-landing foot.
A normal axel by a counterclockwise jumper takes off from the left forward outside (LFO) and lands on the right back outside (RBO).
A one-foot axel would also take off from the LFO edge, but it would land on the same foot on the inside edge, LBI, instead of RBO, still traveling counterclockwise. If the skater does this on purpose and with good control and flow, it's now possible to execute a salchow (single, double, triple, quad) or less likely a flip directly from that landing edge if so desired, and that would be a true combination, not a jump sequence.
The same could be done with, say, a double jump from any other takeoff. I've never seen it done with a double axel or triple as the first jump, in theory it would be possible and would be another potential area for pushing the limits of the sport.
There current rules do not penalize this -- the jump or jump combo would just be rewarded on the merits of its quality.
On the other hand, sometimes skaters land their triple jumps briefly on the inside edge of the regular landing foot (RBI for a counterclockwise jumper) and then, if they have any speed coming out, manage to rock over onto the expected outside edge (RBO). This would manifest as a wobble on the landing. Or the skater may land on the RBI with no speed, balance there just long enough to establish a one-foot landing, and then put the left foot down to skate away from the jump and continue the program.
That kind of inside edge landing is an error and there is a penalty; see the "wrong edge" part of the "Weak landing (bad pos./wrong edge/scratching etc)" in the
list of GOE reductions.
Also, the reason that kind of inside edge landing happens in the first place is usually because of underrotation. If the underrotation is significant enough, the jump will also be downgraded.
For a clockwise skater I think it goes something like this:
Toe-loop/Wally: Right foot take-off, toepick assisted
Loop: Right foot take-off, no toe pick.
Flip/Lutz: Left foot take-off, toe pick assisted
Salchow/toeless Lutz: Left foot take-off, no toe pick (extra GOE for a toeless triple Lutz, which I don't think anyone can do.)
All these examples would be for a
counterclockwise jumpers, which is the more common direction.
All lefts and rights above would be reversed for clockwise jumpers.
But, yeah, you could leave out just the men's versus ladies' factoring, with the result that men would almost always have a somewhat higher TES than PCS, and women the opposite.
This would be fine with me, actually.
Give the women the same amount of time and number of total elements to work with in the long program, and the TES gap would be narrower there than it is now with one less element.
I think limiting the number of double Axels would help. But a skater could still do two triple flips, two triple Lutzes, two double Axels and a triple toe, and leave out both the loop and the Salchow.
I would.
Looking at the surrent rules, I would do four flatzes (absorbing a couple of "!" calls if necessary) and win every competition.
You wouldn't win every competition unless you were overall better than all your competitors at the majority of relevant skills, including landing those jumps consistently and well.
The reason why not everyone chooses the same jump content is that they want to maximize not only the base marks but also the probability and magnitude of positive GOEs. Some skaters might be equally consistent at all the triples and equally competent at executing positive qualities and avoiding negative ones with all takeoffs, in which case they can expect to get more points for a triple flutz than a triple salchow. Some might be more consistent at toe jumps, in which case it's in their interests to include the jumps they're more likely to land. But a skater who is capable of a +GOE 3S or 3Lo is better off including that jump than another -GOE 3Lz with edge call.
Skaters who can do triple-triple combos with 3T or 3Lo are often better off repeating that jump rather than the flip or lutz, because that opens up additional jumping slots for them. With the current ladies' rules, including triple-triples are the best way to fit 7 triples into a program.
"two triple flips, two triple Lutzes, two double Axels and a triple toe, ... leav[ing] out both the loop and the Salchow" is not the maximal base mark for a ladies' long program under the current rules.
3F
5.5
3Lz
6.0
3Lz+2Lo 6.0+1.5 =
7.5
3F+2T+2Lo 5.5 +1.3 + 1.5 =
8.3
3T
4.0
2A+2A+SEQ = (3.5 + 3.5) x 0.8 =
5.6
2A
3.5
Total base mark =
40.4
Put in a triple-triple using the toe loop, and that will open a slot for triple loop or triple salchow.
3F
5.5
3Lz
6.0
3Lz+3T 6.0+4.0 =
10.0
3F+2T+2Lo 5.5 +1.3 + 1.5 =
8.3
3S
4.5
2A+2A+SEQ = (3.5 + 3.5) x 0.8 =
5.6
2A
3.5
That gives you and extra 3.0 of base mark, total
43.4.
Loop instead of sal gives
44.4.
Doing two 3-3s (repeating the toe loop or loop) would open two more jump slots and eliminate the need to do a sequence and incur that penalty.
3Lz+3T 6.0 + 4.0 =
10.0
3F+3T 5.5 + 4.0 =
9.5
3Lz
6.0
2A+2Lo+2Lo 3.5 + 1.5 + 1.5 =
7.5
3Lo
5.0
3S
4.5
2A
3.5
Total base mark
46.0
Repeating the loop instead of toe loop would give you an additional point.
Other possibilities: Put the triple toe, triple sal, or triple loop in combination or in sequence with a double axel, instead of the 2A+2A sequence. That will give you a minimum of an extra 0.5 for that slot, plus open the current 3T slot for a more valuable 3S or 3Lo.
Also, of course, it's easy enough to fill the solo 2A slot with a solo 3S or 3Lo.
The only advantage to doing three 2A instead of replacing one or two of them with one of the easier triples is if one can't consistently do the triples. That might be an insurmountable obstacle -- some skaters will just never get some of the triples, no matter how hard they try -- or it might be a strategic choice to devote training time to perfecting fewer different jumps or to nonjump skills. But it's not because doing only three different triples and double axels maximizes the base mark -- it clearly does not. For a skater who can only consistently rotate and land three different triples, it maximizes the mark for that skater relative to other layouts possible with her own jump skills, not to other layouts that skaters with more varied jump skills might achieve.
Personally, I'd like to see the long program rules tweaked to better allow skaters to be rewarded for what they do best as well as to reward variety of skills, but not to de facto require every skater to attempt the exact same content to maximize base value.
One suggestion I'd propose would be to give the women an additional 15-30 seconds and an additional element slot, so they'd have the option to include an 8th jumping pass, or a 4th spin or 2nd step sequence or a new kind of element.
Remember that many of the ladies from the 1990s and early 2000s who executed programs with seven triples and a double axel or two in the 6.0 system did it in 8 or 9 jump passes, especially if they couldn't do triple-triples. One reason we're seeing skaters now leave out one of the takeoffs is that they're limited in the number of times they're allowed to jump.
I would also reduce/eliminate the 0.8 multiplier for jump sequences and/or add a bonus for the second jump in combinations or sequences, and some sort of bonus for jumps in both directions. That would encourage skaters to plan sequences or combos ending with salchows or flips, and also more incentive to do double loops instead of double toes at the ends of combos, to do double-triple combos, and eventually (I'd expect it would take at least a decade after the incentive is introduced for skaters to develop the skill) to do double lutz the other way at t
Some of these other ways of pushing the jump difficulty would lead to injuries. We saw a lot of girls getting hurt around 10 years ago attempting triple loop combos, trying to keep up with Lipinski, Slutskaya, and Hughes. In fact, Lipinski ended her own career with that kind of injury, although she was lucky enough to win the big prize along the way.
But I think the key is to reward any particular kind of difficulty for those who can do it without significant danger to themselves, and to provide other places to increase difficulty for those whose talents lie in other directions.
A male champion typically might get 85 TES and 80 PCS (8's across the board.) 
