Kim's representatives end Orser's coaching relationship threads merged

[Spun Silver]

Guys, this break-up is easy to explain. You are overlooking the real issue in the real world.

It's about a coach wanting a bigger cut from a skater who is one of the highest paid female athletes in the world.

And a failed negotiation because (1) the coach demanded a bit too much and trust was breached or (2) the skater's mom offered a bit too little and pride was hurt. Take your pick.

As for starting this mess, however, the blame must fall squarely on Brian/IMG, as they made an unilateral public announcement, trying to present himself as some victim of wrongful termination.

Had there been a employment contract, such announcement would have constituted a breach of confidentiality obligation, and Brian/IMG would have been sued.

Do you have a source for this? If not, it would be nice if you offered it as speculation instead of throwing oil on the fire.

 

[prettykeys]

Well, he did wait 3 weeks before announcing the split--seems like that was more than enough time.

If Brian was thinking a little bit more, he could have given her a longer amount of time, and being quiet may have allowed her to come back into the fold.

I guess they both got what they want, now?

 

[Daniel5555]

skatinginbc

Thank you for your kind replies.

One thing that I didn't comment before is this quote
I don't know how you define the maturity, but Yuna achieved in her respective field more, than, I guess, most of the people on this board and she certainly can take the responsibility for her actions and even for other people. She may be impulsive, she may be stubborn, but I don't think she is immature.

When I read it, I cannot help but laugh. "She may be impulsive, she may be stubborn", she may be ego-centric, she may be a *****,..... "but I don't think she is immature." Get my point? Can you explain it in a more logically friendly way? Thanks.

I don't think I can. I implied, that we must first define what a "maturity" is, then I implied, that if we take it as ability to take responsibilities and having experience (which is not any official definition in any case), Yuna is mature. Being impulsive is a part of character, it doesn't have to be related to maturity.
Then I don't think I can explain something to person, who obviously won't think about it. You already decided everything.

 

[prettykeys]

^ actually, impulsivity is linked to youth, I'm afraid.

And yes, I wouldn't bother trying to converse with skatinginbc.

 

[Basics]

Well, according to this : http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/sp20100428f1.html
, they didn't even contact him.

They will deny it no matter what to protect Mao's image. maybe ATS should learn from them?

 

[Daniel5555]

prettykeys

^ actually, impulsivity is linked to youth, I'm afraid.

Yes, but not necessarily. I tried to look for a definition of "maturity" and it doesn't exists really in serious dictionaries. It's a very vague term. So we'll have to define it ourselves first. Without doing so it makes no sense to talk about it.
I think that a person can be impulsive, but still be mature.

And yes, I wouldn't bother trying to converse with skatinginbc.

You are right, of course.

 

[skatinginbc]

Guys, this break-up is easy to explain. You are overlooking the real issue in the real world.

It's about a coach wanting a bigger cut from a skater who is one of the highest paid female athletes in the world.

And a failed negotiation because (1) the coach demanded a bit too much and trust was breached or (2) the skater's mom offered a bit too little and pride was hurt. Take your pick.

As for starting this mess, however, the blame must fall squarely on Brian/IMG, as they made an unilateral public announcement, trying to present himself as some victim of wrongful termination.

Had there been a employment contract, such announcement would have constituted a breach of confidentiality obligation, and Brian/IMG would have been sued.

Even if it were about money, I think Brian had to the right to demand more. As far as an unilateral public announcement, blame her mom for being ill-prepared (failure to negotiate a joint statement).

 

[hellcat]

Huh? Why saying "he was flattered" would be a problem? I was just adding that to clarify there're some more in the acompanying email than just the phone interview.

The problem is someone said they never contacted him and the other said they did.

One of them is not telling the truth whatever the reason could be.

"He even said he was flattered"..so is that the problem? Would you have wanted him do disparage her ? Should he have been insulted ?

Of course he would be flattered , just as TAT would be flattered if Yuna's camp ( not necessarily Yuna herself) put out tentative feelers to see if she would be interested in coaching Yuna... (You're living in a dream world if you don't think this kind of discussion goes on behind the scenes all the time.) And really, what would you expect Mao's camp to say , now that everything is out in the open? They ,too, live in an insane, OTT fan / media atmosphere . Since it wasn't a formal offer..they may well want to deny it.

 

[skatinginbc]

^ actually, impulsivity is linked to youth, I'm afraid.

And yes, I wouldn't bother trying to converse with skatinginbc.

Because you can not handle the truth? What I mean "handle" is explaining it in a logical way.

 

[hellcat]

Even if it were about money, I think Brian had to the right to demand more. As far as an unilateral public announcement, blame her mom for being ill-prepared (failure to negotiate a joint statement).

His interview so far does not make it look like it was money issue if I take his words. I believe he talked about his hourly pay to explain that.

 

[Daniel5555]

skatinginbc
I guess you don't have any idea what is logic.
Anyway, as you believe to have the monopoly of handling the "truth" it's not productive to talk to you.

 

[samsarah]

I did not see the word "offer" regarding the statement to Korea Herald and Tribune. And I am not so clear if "approach" actually means "offer" and thus constitutes a "direct contradiction". What "clear" to me is that you have reinforced some addicts' behavior. Don't you see they are jumping up and down based on your "direct contradiction"?

If you have been reading my post carefully, you would have known when I wrote “Brian confirmed the rumor (that there was offer from Mao), the word “offer” was directed to the “rumor.” But perhaps you were already judging me as an “addict,” so you saw only what you wanted to see. (though I admit I deeply admire Brian and Yuna, and a big fan of Mao  )

What Brian wrote in his email to Yuna is that “they(Mao) inquired me and the team (Tracey, Wilson etc)” and he was flattered by Mao’s interest. Again, he used no such word as serious and business like as “offer.” But the media’s wild speculations already generated this rumor that Mao was offering Brian a coaching job. So it was understandable and reasonable that Brian felt the need to clarify this rumor to Yuna. It was professional behavior and nothing wrong about this.

But I thought that it was contradicting to the contents of the email and his interview with Herald, when Brian answered to the interviewer of CTV that there was absolutely no offer from Mao.

He should have at least explained there was a preliminary offer (=inquiry), but he did not accept it. Besides, when the interviewer asked him if there was an offer, it may not have been used as a legal term. In my perception, the word offer was used in the general sense of meaning. If that was so, Brian saying that “they(Mao) simply asked me if I can coach her but I rejected, therefore there was no offer” would have been reasonable, and consistent with his previous statements to the media.

But maybe he was trying to keep Mao out of loop, a gentleman as he is, and I respect him more for that.

 

[Mathman]

Also the acompanying email with the phone intervew says: "Her agency did inquire about me ( and team ) working with her, I told them that you are my first priority. I have to say that I was flattered she has an interest, but your skating comes first.".

If this quote is accurate, what in the world does Yu-na's team have to be upset about? Orser turned down an offer to coach Kim's rival because his primary loyalty was to Kim. This is a good thing, not a bad one. (?)

If -- as seems to be the case -- the offer was more like an informal exploratory feeler, Orser quite properly nipped such speculation in the bud.

 

[hellcat]

If this quote is accurate, what in the world does Yu-na's team have to be upset about? Orser turned down an offer to coach Kim's rival because his primary loyalty was to Kim. This is a good thing, not a bad one. (?)

If -- as seems to be the case -- the offer was more like an informal exploratory feeler, Orser quite properly nipped such speculation in the bud.

I don't think anyone was upset in Yuna's side with the contents whether it was true or not. Besides, as I said before, I don't think anything is wrong getting a new student or looking for a new coach.

 

[FlattFan]

Because Yuna's side predicted that he would speak publicly about the split on the eves of ticket sale?
Because they predicted that his TV interview would sound somewhat inconsistent (though being offered and being approached are two different things) with his prior claims?

I thought the second time, they asked him, was there an offer? He said there was no offer. The second cousin to Mao Asada's assistant coach might have asked him if he's interested in coaching Mao in April, but there was no offer from JSF. So he said there was an offer, but there wasn't an offer offer. What's inconsistent about that?

 

[colleen o'neill]

hellcat....sorry if I misunderstood you. My head is spinning from reading all this stuff.But really, it just seems like people expect too much to be laid out in the open... Also, they don't recognize that this kind of testing the waters ,asking if, and under what conditions a coach might consider working with someone,goes on all the time.

I'll give you an example..take B/K back in the day when TAT was the be-all and end-all in ice dance, and it almost seemed that only her couples had a chance of advancing. B/K put out feelers to see if she would take them on. She said yes, but they'd have to wait a year since her slate was full. B/K didn't mind that being known, and even mentioned it themselves...because even though they had to wait ,they thought it was in their interest for people to know TAT thought that highly of their talent...If TAT had said flatly "no", I'm sure they would have tried to keep it hush-hush that they had ever approached her. now imagine that on top of just being told no , there were deep national bad feelings between Canada and the countries of TAT's other teams..

Anyone can understand that Mao's people would deny there was ever any attempt at such a conversation.

 

[Daniel5555]

Mathman
This offer thing is really getting exaggerated. When it happened, Yuna had no problems with Brian. It was something that happened later which made the things worse and that offer, probably, was somehow sticking in there.

If -- as seems to be the case -- the offer was more like an informal exploratory feeler, Orser quite properly nipped such speculation in the bud.

I think someone from IMG talked to Brian about it without consent from superiors and it was not official offer in any case. That's all.

 

[evangeline]

Well...I don't underestimate the influence of IMG. IMG is notorious here in Korea. When Yuna moved to IB, IMG sued her and was defeated.
I do not think Yuna or Min-jung felt comfortable with training with 7(I heard) Japanese junior skaters in the same ice link. There are visitors from the federation and the press..., I donot think that is the matter of emotional security.

Just to clarify something about the Toronto Cricket Club--yes, there are Japanese skaters who train there, but the thing is, Japanese skaters (as well as many skaters from other different countries) have been coming to the Club to train there in the summer long before Yu-Na started training there. It's not unusual for skaters to train in different countries from their home bases in the summer--look at Mishin's summer camp, for example.

Also...even if Yu-Na and Min-Jung were uncomfortable with Japanese skaters (which I highly doubt as Japanese skaters at the club are not exactly a new development), have you ever been to the Cricket Club? It's huge....there's plenty of room to share.

 

[seniorita]

I m bored with this scandal by now, I need a new one...
I can hope maybe Plushy will split with Mishin next week and together with Yagudin have a joint announcement

 

[SerpentineSteps]

I m bored with this scandal by now, I need a new one...
I can hope maybe Plushy will split with Mishin next week and together with Yagudin have a joint announcement

Should I make a "Asada's representatives begin Tarasova's student relationship threads separated" thread?:yay: