What will 2010-11 bring for Caroline Zhang?

[goldenpleasures]

You haven't even tried to answer Andalusia's question. I don't believe you know anything about Caroline at all. You're just speculating on a skater having some kind of eating problem, which is completely out of order unless you have some evidence.

 

[oleada]

I'm actually shocked to hear people call Caroline fat. She's not fat at all - she's grown up and seems to have a lot of muscle. I have no idea how losing weight will make her be any faster, when she's been tiny and still been super slow. She's just grown up, no longer tiny and her flexibility and jumps are gone. I give her tons of credit for getting rid of the mule kick on her flip, but it seems like it's too little, too late.

 

[Andalusia]

Something about Caroline dumping candy into her purse and then eating it in private because she's not allowed/supposed to eat it, that was a couple years ago.

I was actually looking for a specific (credible) source but I doubt I'll be getting it.

I'm still undecided about how closely Caroline resembles Bebe physically, but skating-wise I don't see how they're at all alike. Bebe is fast, aggressive and uncontrolled; everything Caroline does on ice is careful, delicate and slow. I still don't think Caroline could in any way be called fat or overweight, but really, what surprised me most is how much her face has changed. Her face has indeed gotten considerably fuller. Her arms and thighs have perhaps become a little beefier, but if Jenna McCorkell can skate at a perfectly decent speed, Caroline's weight and height can't be used as excuses for her skating so slowly. Actually, for anyone who follows Caroline (and Mirai) on FB, we shouldn't be too shocked as to how different they look on the ice now because they do look much more grown-up in recent personal photos.

If Caroline is still placing disastrously by the end of the next season, I'll assume she's done for at least in regards to Sochi. I'm willing to give her a pass now due to the boatload of issues that she must undoubtedly be working very hard to correct.

I still have a sneaking suspicion that Caroline would have done much better in the LP if her SP score had been higher. I think she gets very discouraged by her poor scores; she strikes me as the type who needs a tangible incentive to ignite her competitive drive.

 

[feraina]

Caroline is well known around the rink for being crazy about sweets. She's used to eating whatever she wants and still being really thin. It was only in the past year that puberty caught up with her in this respect. And the latest weight gain seems to have come on very suddenly, just in a matter of a few months. Her metabolism must have slowed down drastically, and she hasn't managed to change her diet appropriately in response. It's not easy fundamentally changing your dietary habits if you are used to a certain way of eating, in particular never having to be disciplined about it.

I don't think Caroline is "fat", nor do I think she has any eating disorder. However, metabolism can slow down dramatically during puberty, and that looks to be what happened to her. And she's definitely carrying extra pounds beyond muscle gain that's helping to make her skating labored. I think her stroking technique seems to be better than before, and she should be skating (more noticeably) faster if not for the fact that she's got more pounds to carry around now. And also her loss of flexibility is strongly related to this too. Has anyone else noticed how much thin-ness and flexibility are correlated? It's not absolute, of course, but definitely not unrelated.

I don't understand this taboo/paranoia about weight and diet. She's an elite-level athlete, weight and diet are extremely important for athletic performance. They're even important for just normal healthy living. It's only a society that's got a real problem with that issue that would be so sensitive talking about it. It's all this "hush, hush" that makes it feel like an evil thing, whereas there is really no need!

 

[krenseby]

I was shocked when I saw Caroline, she looks a lot like Bebe now. That's what puberty can make with cute tiny kid. I'm not surprised actually. Even when she was 13 y.o. her issues were obvious. But now it's even worse than I expected. Her beautiful spins are gone, she looks heavy on ice and even slower than before. Her jumps are still tiny and painful to watch, it's good that she fixed her mule kick on flip, but it's not enough... I'm sorry to say this, I really like Caroline, but I think she is done.

I agree that if she keeps on skating heavy and slow, and doesn't improve her flexibility a lot, she is done. That's a fair assessment.

 

[R.D.]

I'm actually shocked to hear people call Caroline fat. She's not fat at all - she's grown up and seems to have a lot of muscle. I have no idea how losing weight will make her be any faster, when she's been tiny and still been super slow. She's just grown up, no longer tiny and her flexibility and jumps are gone. I give her tons of credit for getting rid of the mule kick on her flip, but it seems like it's too little, too late.

Unbelievable, isn't it?? SMH.

And I do think she deserves credit for trying. Maybe it's too late, or maybe it's the storm before the calm, but one thing she couldn't afford to do is stick with the status quo. Change is necessary, and doesn't always go smoothly. Remember, she also could have just quit, like M&B.

 

[miki88]

Unbelievable, isn't it?? SMH.

And I do think she deserves credit for trying. Maybe it's too late, or maybe it's the storm before the calm, but one thing she couldn't afford to do is stick with the status quo. Change is necessary, and doesn't always go smoothly. Remember, she also could have just quit, like M&B.

I agree. She couldn't remain in the status quo. She had to make these changes. Whether these changes will work out in the end remains to be seen, but I think now is too soon to pass judgment.

 

[R.D.]

I agree. She couldn't remain in the status quo. She had to make these changes. Whether these changes will work out in the end remains to be seen, but I think now is too soon to pass judgment.

EXACTAMUNDO

That is what I'm getting at. Again, some people seem to be seeking instant results. Doesn't work that way, except maybe in the most extraordinary of circumstances.

 

[aftertherain]

EXACTAMUNDO

That is what I'm getting at. Again, fanboyz/girlz = instant results. Doesn't work that way, except maybe in the most extraordinary of circumstances.

They don't sound like fanboys and fangirls to me.

 

[R.D.]

They don't sound like fanboys and fangirls to me.

I don't mean to single anybody out here. I'm speaking in general terms. It's not just here on GS, but elsewhere too.

ETA: you know what, you're right. I think I'm letting all this discussion about weight get to me. It's a pet peeve of mine. Oh well.

 

[aftertherain]

I don't mean to single anybody out here. I'm speaking in general terms. It's not just here on GS, but elsewhere too.

ETA: you know what, you're right. I think I'm letting all this discussion about weight get to me. It's a pet peeve of mine. Oh well.

*pats* I think it's a sensitive subject for anybody.

I can understand where you're coming from, because it seems like many (or just a handful) of posters are judging so quickly. They're like, "Oh. She's fat. Her career's over. She should just quit now and drop off the face of the earth." and it's infuriating. How can someone say something like that? That, and the season's barely begun.

Weight standards for figure skaters = supermodels. The puberty monster's caught up with her. Despite what people think, there's a difference between looking fat and looking womanly. Or you can have a mixture of both. *shrugs*

Change usually takes place over a long period of time anyway.

 

[R.D.]

*pats* I think it's a sensitive subject for anybody.

I can understand where you're coming from, because it seems like many (or just a handful) of posters are judging so quickly. They're like, "Oh. She's fat. Her career's over. She should just quit now and drop off the face of the earth." and it's infuriating. How can someone say something like that? That, and the season's barely begun. Change usually takes place over a long period of time.

Case study: Joannie Rochette

Weight standards for figure skaters = supermodels.

Yes...gymnasts and ballet dancers too, I would assume.

 

[aftertherain]

Yes...gymnasts and ballet dancers too, I would assume.

Among others, yes. Hahaha.

I suppose people just like feeding off negative energy. Haters will be haters. I'm not going to deny that the first thing that came to mind when I saw her SP for this year was the physical change to her body. *shrugs*

Caroline and Mao are alike in this aspect this year. They're both trying to change for the better, they don't have a good start, but at least they're trying and that's what counts. Try hard enough and perhaps they really will improve for the long run.

 

[silverlake22]

The one thing I wonder about the whole weight issue is that it seems like the skaters who really "make it" internationally are really thin/fit. I think the perfect example of this is Miki Ando, who didn't really start getting taken seriously on the international stage until she slimmed down dramatically after her disasterous 2006 Olympics, and she definitely wasn't fat there either.

2006: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nfFIJAEr-Jc

2007: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4aK02CsBwDE

2008: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xiptdeAP0A4

2009: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFlpMMClTCI&p=50F94D4374AC5D6C&playnext=1&index=46

2010: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N5Z80la1ON0


It seems like she gets thinner every season, and she was never heavy to begin with, and honestly she was probably a better jumper before she got so thin, so why did she get so thin? But oddly enough, since 2006 she's had really good results for the most part.

I also think there's pressure for skaters to try and take after whoever the world champion is. So recently we've had:

2010 - Mao
2009 - Yuna
2008 - Mao
2007 - Miki (after she lost weight)
2006 - Kimmie (before she filled out)
2005 - Irina

I guess Irina wasn't considered super thin by skating standards, but she was certainly super fit. Apart from that though, yeah, most of the female world champions recently have been really thin, so I guess there's this notion of if you want to be world champion you're supposed to look a certain way (thin). It's too bad.

 

[silverlake22]

I'm actually shocked to hear people call Caroline fat. She's not fat at all - she's grown up and seems to have a lot of muscle. I have no idea how losing weight will make her be any faster, when she's been tiny and still been super slow. She's just grown up, no longer tiny and her flexibility and jumps are gone. I give her tons of credit for getting rid of the mule kick on her flip, but it seems like it's too little, too late.

Is anyone on this forum calling Caroline fat though? I thought it was mostly just on youtube that people were making those kinds of comments. Most people here seem to have noticed that she's filled out quite a bit, but most aren't saying she's fat. She isn't fat. You can't do triple jumps if you're fat. She just used to be stick thin and is now built more like a normal girl her age.

 

[aftertherain]

Is anyone on this forum calling Caroline fat though? I thought it was mostly just on youtube that people were making those kinds of comments. Most people here seem to have noticed that she's filled out quite a bit, but most aren't saying she's fat. She isn't fat. You can't do triple jumps if you're fat. She just used to be stick thin and is now built more like a normal girl her age.

I don't think anyone has openly called her fat, but there have been some insinuations.

Totally irrelevant, but does she still have really long hair? Her hair-bun looks huge compared to last year. (No, I am not calling her hair fat.)

 

[prettykeys]

Post #364

Agree.

I never said so of Rachael Flatt, but I believe Caroline Zhang needs to trim down a wee bit. It is quite sad, actually. When CaroZ didn't have the jumps, at least she had the positions and charms...and now it looks like the joy has been sucked out of her. While her improvement in her mule-kick is evident (huge kudos to her), it seems to have come with such a loss.

I don't know what she is eating, but I would suggest a carb-controlled diet with a portioned treat every day. Yes, a treat everyday - because that helps control cravings and plus I bet she could use a psychological pick-me-up. Something looks out of whack, like either a) she's trying to tackle too many things at once and it's making her very unhappy, or b) she's addressing one thing (her jump technique) while letting other things get out of control.

This may sound bitchy/catty and nit-picky of me, but remember, I NEVER got on Rachael's case--because the truth is that while she looked soft and curvy, she was always within the range of a fit, healthy girl. Her smiles show it, and her legs/hips look balanced. Yet another counter-example is Elene G. She has a large chest, but her arms and legs are still sleek. CaroZ...not so much.

 

[krenseby]

And she's definitely carrying extra pounds beyond muscle gain that's helping to make her skating labored. I think her stroking technique seems to be better than before, and she should be skating (more noticeably) faster if not for the fact that she's got more pounds to carry around now. And also her loss of flexibility is strongly related to this too. Has anyone else noticed how much thin-ness and flexibility are correlated? It's not absolute, of course, but definitely not unrelated

It is quite sad, actually. When CaroZ didn't have the jumps, at least she had the positions and charms...and now it looks like the joy has been sucked out of her. While her improvement in her mule-kick is evident (huge kudos to her), it seems to have come with such a loss.

The only question is, do her coach and her realize that flexibility, positions, charms (i.e. performing lyrically and in tune with the music) are a priority.

Frank Carroll worked with Mirai on technique issues, and when he did, we all knew that he wouldn't lose sight of the other stuff, because he's the kinda coach who insists that his skaters perform everything well.

As for Tammy Gambill, I am not sure if she is the "everything has to be done right" kinda coach. (BTW, I am really happy that Ashley Wagner's working with Priscilla Hill. Priscilla seems to understand the importance of all the details that go into a skating routine.)

 

[aftertherain]

Frank Carroll worked with Mirai on technique issues, and when he did, we all knew that he wouldn't lose sight of the other stuff, because he's the kinda coach who insists that his skaters perform everything well.

But Mirai didn't have it as bad as Caroline, didn't she?

Besides, Frank's been a coach for like ... a thousand years. Hahaha.

 

[krenseby]

But Mirai didn't have it as bad as Caroline, didn't she?

Besides, Frank's been a coach for like ... a thousand years. Hahaha.

Well, still, isn't it possible for a skater to train spins and spirals and devote time to interpretation and choreography, even when they have to rework their jumps?