What will 2010-11 bring for Caroline Zhang?

[PolymerBob]

Hah! It just takes some smart, determined people to prove that wrong. The same could be true in skating.

I suspect Caroline will prove MANY people wrong in the very near future.

OK, back to skating. Though she is out of the Final, Caroline still needs to do well at Skate America for 2 reasons. She needs a higher season maximum score to assure her 2 GP events next year. And the has to force the USFSA to take her seriously. A powerful performance in front of a U.S. crowd will send a clear message. ( Of course, so will a poor one. )

 

[brightphoton]

I don't think she's become fatter. Rather, her costume made her look a bit stumpy. Joannie Rochette is thin, but for some reason, she kept wearing costumes that made her legs look really short.

I'm glad to see Caroline's mule kick has improved.

 

[frauregina]

Her lutz in NHK is the best I've seen in her career, though still slow.

I wonder how Tammy intends to correct this one. The kick in her jump is waaaaaay lower than last season but it's still a mule kick. Also, I don't like her entry on her salchow but the one she did in NHK is very much improved, though she popped the jump (am I correct?).

 

[havefun]

Ok Bio lesson..... In order for a girl to get a regular monthly cycle they need to first have adequate body fat. Due to the demands of the sport many high level female skaters experience delayed puberty as they do not carry enough body fat. As a result the body produces more estrogen to increase the production of body fat. Skater diets. Misses cycles. Body produces even more estrogen. Finally when there is a decrease in cardiovascular activity (ie working on jumps more than running programs) the body finally has a chance to respond to the estrogen and boom.....the weight gain is significant due to the abnormally high estrogen. The good news is once the cycle is regulated for 3 to 6 months the estrogen goes back to a more normal level, the "adolescent fat stores" are reduced and weight is able to be maintained with a normal healthy diet and exercise as before. The added bonus is that those skaters that did not have natural strength prior to puberty often get it after.
Unfortunately for a figure skater they are in a fish bowl and under a microscope. Where a regular teenager is able to go through this normal phase with minimal attention and without the delay, the elite skater is analyzed, critiqued and put under a microscope. There have been deaths due to eating disorders related to figure skating, gymnastics and ballet and serious eating disorders are well documented in this sport. These skaters are beautiful, trained woman who put themselves out there in front of many eyes every day. 99 percent of people in this world would never have the mental capacity to even come close to doing what they do.

 

[Mathman]

Thank you for that post, Havefun, and welcome! Post often, post long!

 

[Spun Silver]

Fabulous post. Thank you. And welcome to Goldenskate! PLPO! (Hehe.)

 

[Olympia]

Havefun, that is really interesting. I thought I was pretty savvy in terms of physiology, but I didn't know about that. Thanks! It makes me hopeful not just about Caroline's future, but about the future of a lot of other ladies. Hooray for nature!

As for your second paragraph, amen to that. Very tough to be under a microscope the way skaters are--I doubt I'd be able to cope as an adult, and they're so young.

 

[frauregina]

The good news is once the cycle is regulated for 3 to 6 months the estrogen goes back to a more normal level, the "adolescent fat stores" are reduced and weight is able to be maintained with a normal healthy diet and exercise as before. The added bonus is that those skaters that did not have natural strength prior to puberty often get it after.

So in other words, there's a chance that Caroline will develop a new body strength after this weight gain? If that so, the more reason for me to wait and see what Caroline has to offer to figure skating in the coming years.

And btw, welcome to the forum!

 

[R.D.]

Ok Bio lesson..... In order for a girl to get a regular monthly cycle they need to first have adequate body fat. Due to the demands of the sport many high level female skaters experience delayed puberty as they do not carry enough body fat. As a result the body produces more estrogen to increase the production of body fat. Skater diets. Misses cycles. Body produces even more estrogen. Finally when there is a decrease in cardiovascular activity (ie working on jumps more than running programs) the body finally has a chance to respond to the estrogen and boom.....the weight gain is significant due to the abnormally high estrogen. The good news is once the cycle is regulated for 3 to 6 months the estrogen goes back to a more normal level, the "adolescent fat stores" are reduced and weight is able to be maintained with a normal healthy diet and exercise as before. The added bonus is that those skaters that did not have natural strength prior to puberty often get it after.
Unfortunately for a figure skater they are in a fish bowl and under a microscope. Where a regular teenager is able to go through this normal phase with minimal attention and without the delay, the elite skater is analyzed, critiqued and put under a microscope. There have been deaths due to eating disorders related to figure skating, gymnastics and ballet and serious eating disorders are well documented in this sport. These skaters are beautiful, trained woman who put themselves out there in front of many eyes every day. 99 percent of people in this world would never have the mental capacity to even come close to doing what they do.

Thanks for the post. Interesting take.

It was needed, too...this thread was headed for disaster.

 

[silverlake22]

Havefun, good post, I only have one thing to say. Don't many female figure skaters not get their period at all because they don't have adequate body fat? I mean, you can still go through puberty and just not have a cycle and then once these top athletes stop training so rigorously, they will be able to have regular monthly cycles, but that doesn't happen until they stop intense training. I was a gymnast for a long time and it was common among the elite women in their late teens and early 20s to not have a regular menstrual cycle, or even one at all. Now I'm sure that's not healthy, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was true among skaters as well. I think at the Olympics last February when Mao had lost weight to rotate her 3a she said something about not being able to have babies or something.

 

[Nadine]

Interesting point about gymnasts, silverlake, which automatically brought to my mind Kathy Johnson, whom has stated in the past she never had a period until she was age 25! Yet she was still able to have her son at age 39 yrs. old. I don't know if that is common or not? I do know the gossip about models is that some of them are unable to have kids/babies later on in life due to being so incredibly malnourished & skinny during their modelling careers, yet I cannot cite any examples as I do not follow the modelling world in general.

As it relates to skating, I think it's obvious when one has an eating disorder, all skin & bones, no muscle mass, nada (aka the singer Karen Carpenter). For the most part, I think skaters are relatively healthy, they just have to watch their weight like everybody else, especially during the Olympic season, where they really have to sacrifice in order to land the jumps, but still be strong enough to skate. The Olympic season is an exception to ALL other seasons imho.

***Note: I recall a famous coach said (think it was one of the Scotvolds, the male one), whom said he could always tell how Tonya Harding would skate by seeing her at the first competition. He could tell by looking at her thighs, if they were too heavy, no go, but if they were just right & rock hard, the sky was the limit!!!!! ***

 

[Tinymavy15]

Havefun, good post, I only have one thing to say. Don't many female figure skaters not get their period at all because they don't have adequate body fat? I mean, you can still go through puberty and just not have a cycle and then once these top athletes stop training so rigorously, they will be able to have regular monthly cycles, but that doesn't happen until they stop intense training. I was a gymnast for a long time and it was common among the elite women in their late teens and early 20s to not have a regular menstrual cycle, or even one at all. Now I'm sure that's not healthy, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was true among skaters as well. I think at the Olympics last February when Mao had lost weight to rotate her 3a she said something about not being able to have babies or something.

Katia wrote that she did not hit puberty until she was 18, very late for non-skaters. Personally I was always thin, consistently 125 Lbs (I'm 5'6) for years without really watching what i ate that much. When i was 17 i was injured and off the ice for a whole summer. Even though i stayed active (swimming,walking, yoga) I gained 20 pounds.

 

[prettykeys]

Havefun, good post, I only have one thing to say. Don't many female figure skaters not get their period at all because they don't have adequate body fat? I mean, you can still go through puberty and just not have a cycle and then once these top athletes stop training so rigorously, they will be able to have regular monthly cycles, but that doesn't happen until they stop intense training. I was a gymnast for a long time and it was common among the elite women in their late teens and early 20s to not have a regular menstrual cycle, or even one at all. Now I'm sure that's not healthy, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was true among skaters as well. I think at the Olympics last February when Mao had lost weight to rotate her 3a she said something about not being able to have babies or something.

LOL what? Really?

I've been curious about that. I heard about the "usual not-menstruating" thing for girls with low body fat.

There was one girl I know who was quasi-anorexic. It was kinda gross - she'd have one greasy big breadstick once a day or something, but then not eat the rest of the time. She didn't look emaciated but said she'd stopped having periods. And I hate periods, I always wondered if I could do it and whether it's healthy or not healthy.....but nahhh. Because I already eat lower than the average calories per day (not on purpose, but my dietary choices are just like that) and I'm still bleeding lots and regularly and all that.

Yeah, you're technically right in that a girl can go through puberty without having regular menstrual cycles...but I think what havefun is referring to is puberty in the whole sense, like, developing womanly curves and all.

ETA: Which is weird...because the most annoying part was that I was stick-thin in my early teens, and I still had my first menses at 11 years old. LAME. Talk about inconvenient...and embarrassing at the time.

 

[brightphoton]

she'd have one greasy big breadstick once a day or something, but then not eat the rest of the time. She didn't look emaciated but said she'd stopped having periods.
And I hate periods, I always wondered if I could do it and whether it's healthy or not healthy.....but nahhh.

Yeah, it's probably a bad idea.

Body builders go through cycles of "bulking" and "cutting." You can't significantly build muscle and lose fat simulatenously. A caloric deficit is required for fat loss, but a caloric excess is required for muscle building. Body builders often cycle through building muscle (and adding some fat) and then losing fat (and losing some muscle). Then they end with with that nice Calvin Klein body.
Perhaps Caroline is bulking, and when she cuts, she'll be all lean muscle. I'd like Caroline be large and muscular, like Tonya Harding or Midori Ito.

 

[prettykeys]

Yeah, it's probably a bad idea.

Body builders go through cycles of "bulking" and "cutting." You can't significantly build muscle and lose fat simulatenously. A caloric deficit is required for fat loss, but a caloric excess is required for muscle building. Body builders often cycle through building muscle (and adding some fat) and then losing fat (and losing some muscle). Then they end with with that nice Calvin Klein body.
Perhaps Caroline is bulking, and when she cuts, she'll be all lean muscle. I'd like Caroline be large and muscular, like Tonya Harding or Midori Ito.

Totally believable. Apparently when the body needs calories and there isn't a ready source of glucose in the blood (I learned this in the context of Diabetes), muscle is broken down before fat. Of course it's possible to cut both down simultaneously, but the pecking order is muscle first. Weird, huh?

 

[silverlake22]

LOL what? Really?

I've been curious about that. I heard about the "usual not-menstruating" thing for girls with low body fat.

There was one girl I know who was quasi-anorexic. It was kinda gross - she'd have one greasy big breadstick once a day or something, but then not eat the rest of the time. She didn't look emaciated but said she'd stopped having periods. And I hate periods, I always wondered if I could do it and whether it's healthy or not healthy.....but nahhh. Because I already eat lower than the average calories per day (not on purpose, but my dietary choices are just like that) and I'm still bleeding lots and regularly and all that.

Yeah, you're technically right in that a girl can go through puberty without having regular menstrual cycles...but I think what havefun is referring to is puberty in the whole sense, like, developing womanly curves and all.

ETA: Which is weird...because the most annoying part was that I was stick-thin in my early teens, and I still had my first menses at 11 years old. LAME. Talk about inconvenient...and embarrassing at the time.

I believe you have to have 15% body fat to get a regular menstrual period, and there were articles last season saying Yuna's body fat percentage was 10%, so I would assume that means though she has gone through puberty, she didn't get periods regularly/if at all.

Further, someone can be really thin and have 15% body fat if they don't have much muscle, and similarly someone can appear rather stocky and not have 15% body fat if they have a lot of muscle.

 

[bigsisjiejie]

Totally believable. Apparently when the body needs calories and there isn't a ready source of glucose in the blood (I learned this in the context of Diabetes), muscle is broken down before fat. Of course it's possible to cut both down simultaneously, but the pecking order is muscle first. Weird, huh?

What you wrote is generally true, under ANaerobic conditions. But under true aerobic training conditions for the otherwise healthy person, the breakdown comes from fat first, and particularly for females. That's why for fat loss, training in the proper zone without OVER exerting is important. However, for most elite female figure skaters actively in training, fat loss is not usually an issue, since most of them are relatively low in body fat anyway.

 

[havefun]

What Caroline is doing right now is actually smart. She is making technical changes while her body is adjusting to the demands of being a woman and not a girl. That she can still rotate the triples at this point means that if she wants to work hard and loves what she does, she will in the future have a future at the top of the sport. Tammy Gambill is an awesome coach. I
have no doubt that she will develop her technical ability and confidence to where she is able to see her optimal potential over the next four years without demeaning her or creating future health risks. This sport is not a race, it is a marathon.

 

[frauregina]

This sport is not a race, it is a marathon.

More words of wisdom from havefun! I'm loving your posts already!

 

[PolymerBob]

I have no doubt that she will develop her technical ability and confidence to where she is able to see her optimal potential over the next four years without demeaning her or creating future health risks. This sport is not a race, it is a marathon.

There is one concern I have, and that is finances. It appears AT&T did not renew Caroline's contract, and to my knowledge, she has no other sponsors. I wonder if she can afford to skate until the next Olympics. Can she afford to skate and go to college at the same time? :think: