Ladies Free Skate

[silverlake22]

Caroline Zhang reminds me of Bebe Liang. They both have the same body type.

I agree, a taller version of Bebe Liang. Also AFAIK Bebe has always been in great shape, and was capable of being a great jumper with her body type, her big issue was consistency. So maybe Caroline just needs to get used to the new technique and once she does her new body might allow her to be a more powerful skater.

That being said, Kimmie post 2006 was very strong and muscular but it seemed to hurt her jumps a lot. So Caroline could go either way.

 

[Andalusia]

Kanako Murakami -- she is my honest humble opinion wayyyyyyyyy overrated. Her legs are raggedy and when she jumps she lands with her chest almost touching the ice, not straight up & down the way one should, just hugely disappointing to see her skate in person. Her win reminds me of those that used to say of the Russians "skating while Russian", however nowadays it's "skating while Japanese".

Nice to see that someone who was actually there can validate my feelings about Kanako's skating. I absolutely detested her choreography in the short - it was way OTT perky, and the non-stop smiling she did throughout the program came across as terribly fake to me. She's obviously been taught by Midori's former coach to 'turn it on', so to speak, but what came across as genuine from Midori has the opposite effect with Kanako, IMO. At least she wasn't so grating in the LP, but overall I'm not terribly impressed by her skating - she has a nice 3T-3T, but her other jumps range from competent to mediocre (that hammer kick she does on the flip/lutz is not pretty), her spins are so-so, and her presentation seems forced and quite unpolished.

If she makes the World team and Mao doesn't - ethereal, elegant, refined Mao - I will scream. It's bad enough that Miki is almost assured a spot, but at least with Miki you get the wonderful jumps and Morozovified choreography that is so bad it's entertaining to watch. And I really hope that Akiko doesn't somehow get lost in the shuffle - now, there's a skater who conveys genuine excitemment and delight in her programs without being phony.

 

[Olympia]

Nadine, thanks for the (literally!) rinkside report. It's interesting to hear what these ladies are like close up. I too am glad you're so enthusiastic about Rachael. There's something appealing about her. Moreover, I (being a nervous Nellie myself) am always impressed by people who seem to remain calm under pressure. Besides, I like "Slaughter on Tenth Avenue"--though I prefer a more energetic orchestration of it.

I missed part of the broadcast, so I'll have to hunt stuff up on YouTube. I saw the second Swedish skater, Joshi, but missed her sister. I also missed Zhang, though I gather she did not outdo herself. Alas...but I continue to hope for her improvement.

 

[Blades of Passion]

Flatt is dealing with a leg/ankle injury according to her coach's interview and could not do the combo this week.

I'm pretty sure 99% of Flatt's 3Lz-3Lo attempts have been underrotated or otherwise flawed in practice. Perhaps causing her "injury". She can't do that combo.

 

[FlattFan]

It's insane Flatt didn't win for that effort.

Flatt's 3Lz+2T got 4.7
Kanano's solo 3(f)Lz got 5.3

When seeing it live, Flatt's 3Lz looked flawless, and it was a combo. Kanako's flutz is so bad, it should be -3 across the board. She didn't do anything extra to warrant only -1 and a 0 GOE. This is a joke.

What happened to -2 and -3 for flutzing?

Also, transition, P/E, choreography, and interpretation should be higher than Kanako. :scowl:

The only good sign is: 3 flips in both S and LP were all clean. No downgrades. A freak downgrade on the lutz, but I'm sure she'll be working on that one.

 

[taaak]

Nadine
thank you for interesting report
well i would have: rachael, kanako, joshi

 

[NMURA]

To me, it seems like she's trying to disguise it rather than really fix the issue. It was better here but at NHK, it was the same as always and it showed in the GOE marks. If she were really tackling the issue, the jump would be more unstable (more pops/falls).

I have an impression that Murakami's flutz is getting less blatant. The declining consistency of her 3F is the bigger problem (and its result). The 3loop is the incredibly difficult jump. Just continue trying. A 3Lo< is better than a 2A for the judges' eyes.

 

[EricRohmer]

I have an impression that Murakami's flutz is getting less blatant. The declining consistency of her 3F is the bigger problem (and its result). The 3loop is the incredibly difficult jump. Just continue trying. A 3Lo< is better than a 2A for the judges' eyes.

Your incredibly-difficult-3Lo-campaign isn't over yet?
Don't jinx your lovely mao's 'current only' solid jump.

 

[gold12345]

I'm going to have to be blunt here. Caroline is sluggish and does not move effortlessly across the ice for just one reason .... she put on weight. That's bad and that's good. The bad is that a competitive athlete must watch her weight. In very few sports is this not true. I have no idea how her weight got away from her like that.

So where is the good? The good is that this is a problem that can be fixed. Perhaps not easily, but it can be fixed. If Caroline can slim down and tone up, that fixes several of her problems. She will get better rotation on her jumps, more speed, faster spins, faster spirals, more endurance, and the appearance of effortless ease the judges look for. With all the work Caroline has done, I don’t see a single problem a few less pounds can’t fix.

Caroline wasn't exactly moving effortlessly across the ice in previous years either. She's had speed/power issues forever and tends to crawl into some of her jumps/muscle them around. She's a pretty skater, but I've found her skating somewhat sluggish for years. Her main problems remain her technique issues (and to a lesser extent, her presentation ability). Kudos to her for addressing these things... they take time, but so far Caroline has demonstrated patience and persistence. I am in complete admiration of her new triple flip. Very few skaters have made such noticeable changes to the way they jump.

Caroline is known to have quite a sweet tooth, even by "normal people" standards... But for all we know, she may be eating healthy lately & exercising plenty. She's quite tall, so that makes it extra hard to look petite as one matures. She's also just a teenager, and extra weight gain during the main puberty years is normal- she could slim down as she gets older. Also, since she has spent so much time reworking her jumps, it may have left her with less time to run through her programs and build up the stamina she needs to get through them, therefore enhancing the sluggish appearance.

Sure, maybe she could try to tone up more (one is never too toned), but I think the main issue is her awful technique was suitable for a little kid, not a Sr lady. There are some very tall and normal looking girls in skating who have decent spring to their jumps. Caroline is reworking technique now that should have been reworked when she was a younger. But better late than never!

Nice to see that someone who was actually there can validate my feelings about Kanako's skating. I absolutely detested her choreography in the short - it was way OTT perky, and the non-stop smiling she did throughout the program came across as terribly fake to me. She's obviously been taught by Midori's former coach to 'turn it on', so to speak, but what came across as genuine from Midori has the opposite effect with Kanako, IMO. At least she wasn't so grating in the LP, but overall I'm not terribly impressed by her skating - she has a nice 3T-3T, but her other jumps range from competent to mediocre (that hammer kick she does on the flip/lutz is not pretty), her spins are so-so, and her presentation seems forced and quite unpolished.

I agree completely!

 

[dlgpffps]

I absolutely detested her choreography in the short - it was way OTT perky, and the non-stop smiling she did throughout the program came across as terribly fake to me. She's obviously been taught by Midori's former coach to 'turn it on', so to speak, but what came across as genuine from Midori has the opposite effect with Kanako, IMO. At least she wasn't so grating in the LP, but overall I'm not terribly impressed by her skating - she has a nice 3T-3T, but her other jumps range from competent to mediocre (that hammer kick she does on the flip/lutz is not pretty), her spins are so-so, and her presentation seems forced and quite unpolished.

And that would sum up my feelings (though with more toned down language). Don't get the fuss over her skating. Rachael is usually very sloppy, but I think Kanako's even sloppier at times. She has speed, but poor control over it. It's like she hurtles towards a jump, speed skates into another, strokes strokes fast, stops for some posing, then is at it again. Speed must be combined with refined skating skills in order to really add up to something. Her skating even seems reckless at times (and a little disoriented, if you get what I mean). She probably gets great PCS based on her speed, but I don't see how she's exceptional or even above average when it comes to, say, interpretation. I once said Kanako's skating's still juniorish. I stick to that. If you want to see sophistication from a senior just out of the junior ranks, I suggest you watch Yu-na 2006 TEB or Yukina Ota 2003 SC. Or Michelle's Nationals Rondo Capriccioso.

And I would be the last person to say Kanako combines the best of Yu-na and Mao, miki88. I hold those two skaters, along with Joannie, in a class of their own. Maybe Kanako has the potential to reach this stratosphere, but at the moment I don't see a single wow factor to her skating (although her 3T-3T is quite impressive & the girl herself very likable). It's just that every Japanese Kanako clip I've watched has some comparison to one of those girls. And it's not like hypes are necessarily rooted in facts.

Something has improved in Rachael's skating. Can't point my finger at it, but I find her flaws less distracting now. Maybe improved presence on ice? Too bad for the UR & the bad PCS. She was not wronged in the TES. UR calls were numerous across the board. It's the PCS that doesn't really measure up. Can't see how she's behind Kanako on program components Then again, Kanako's charm doesn't really affect me.

And Andalusia, no worries. "Ethereal, elegant, refined" Mao is on the team no matter what because she's the reigning world champion (fed recommendation), the media favorite and a fighter, who will get herself together in time for Nationals. Akiko's probably the one out, unless she tops Kanako at Nationals by a significant margin. What a shame.

 

[miki88]

dlgpffps, sorry for misunderstanding you. I did think it was weird you would make that statement, since I remembered you said you were sort of a skating purist.
I like Kanako and I don't think her perkiness is fake because she's like that off ice too. However, I do find her programs and especially her costumes to be juniorish. Her SP dress is so distracting. She will eventually need to develop another style other than perky because the judges will be expecting more from her. I do get her win here though because the judges haven't been digging Rachel's style for a while now. If Costner even managed to skate relatively clean, she'd have it but I knew she could't be consistent for long.

ETA: This just hit me. Kanako and Sui (from the baby chinese pairs) are really similar. They're both all smiles and seeming to skate on a sugar overload.

 

[janetfan]

Rippon starts the season with a win at the JO and his success is criticized and his skating viciously attacked.

Welcome Kanako - you have arrived and are now viewed as a threat by many who are fans of other skaters.

How shocking that this "horrible" Kanako has now medaled and won at her first two Sr GP events - and made the GPF.

If Kanako is so flawed - then what does it say about the Ladies she is beating :think:

The claws are out and the jealousy is rampant. Her looks have been attacked by some which is a price one pays for having such supreme cuteness and the best smile since Janet.

Soon a poster will threaten to never watch again if you win another medal this season but I would rather they leave and wish you continued success. :yes:

Good luck at the GPF and at Natls Kanako. For once I agree with NBC - you are a breath of fresh air and a welcome addition to senior skating.

 

[PolymerBob]

Yep, she will make it most likely.

Well, here is the ranking according to ISU rules.

gold + gold
gold + silver
gold + bronze
silver + silver ... ( Rachael )
gold + 4th
silver + bronze

So basically, if each of the 6 events has a different winner, and each winner makes the podium in her other event, Rachael is out. Rachael outranks all other girls who don't have a gold. However, if another girl has 2 silvers, and her higher score is more than Rachael's, then she would outrank Rachael.

 

[PolymerBob]

It's insane Flatt didn't win for that effort.

Flatt's 3Lz+2T got 4.7
Kanano's solo 3(f)Lz got 5.3

When seeing it live, Flatt's 3Lz looked flawless, and it was a combo. Kanako's flutz is so bad, it should be -3 across the board. She didn't do anything extra to warrant only -1 and a 0 GOE. This is a joke.

One thing I strongly believe in is that skating must be more than jumping. Just like history is what happens between the wars, figure skating is what happens between the jumps.
With that said, somebody posted a note about a ( possibly ) dishonest Japanese technical caller. We thought that was pretty funny at the time.

 

[oleada]

Except FlattFan is incorrect. Flatt's 3Lz+2T got downgraded to a 3Lz<+2T. It was obvious on the replay; one of the commentators on NBC pointed it out. Kanako did not get any positive GOE for her flutz. If the technical caller is so biased, then why did Kanako get downgrades as well?

I for one agree with Janetfan. I think Kanako is wonderful. Sure she has her flaws, but her charisma, speed and energy on the ice are an absolute joy to watch and something that the other ladies here were lacking. I have no problems with the judging at this competition overall.

I don't understand the wuzrobbing for Joshi. She landed her jumps, but her basics are not great, she has very little choreography and her spins need a lot of work.

 

[dlgpffps]

If Kanako is so flawed - then what does it say about the Ladies she is beating :think:

They pretty much bombed to lose gold to a skater who singled an axel in the short, got two URs, an edge call, singled a flip and "skated through the music." The ladies this season are underwhelming, to say the least. Alissa was the only pleasant surprise so far.

The claws are out and the jealousy is rampant. Her looks have been attacked by some which is a price one pays for having such supreme cuteness and the best smile since Janet.

Soon a poster will threaten to never watch again if you win another medal this season but I would rather they leave and wish you continued success.

Don't be such a drama queen. She's not a threat to Yu-na, Mao or Joannie. Doesn't have the technical guns. Mirai is more game & it's not like Kanako won with commanding performances. If Rachael had a different batch of judges & technical callers, she might have won. Kanako is cute and her smile is charming, but that doesn't mean people have to establish a pantheon to her name, call her the next wunderkid taking the world by storm and overlook her technical flaws.

She looks amazing in this field, but there are greater skaters out there. That's all. In a Tokyo Worlds with a revamped Mao, lutzing and looping Miki, rejuvenated Joannie, trained and polished Mirai, and the heavenly Queen Yu-na, I don't see her getting that far. She said it herself, "I don't compete with Mao. She skates in heaven, and I skate on earth" (very sweet & humble of her, given Mao's current conditon). I do, however, see a possible GPF gold for her, given several injuries and absences. I wish her the best, but I really don't get the big fuss. Her junior performances were better.

Also, you have missed several great smiles between Janet and Kanako, such as this one here

 

[dlgpffps]

Also, can someone help me find Kanako's 2009 JGPF SP? I really like that performance, but can't find in on Youtube.

 

[MrScroogeMcDuck]

As I said on another thread, Kanako has energy, but it's uncontrolled energy. Her SP was a great example of this. I'm sorry, but as nice as it was to see one of these ladies finally give off a sense of being alive, that was not great skating. I have no doubt that she'll learn to channel that energy appropriately as she ages, but she's not there yet.

I have been one of Flatt's biggest critics, and my overall opinion of her hasn't changed, but even I have to admit that she deserved the gold here. Her marks in PCS were too low for what she displayed.

But this was a weak Skate America for the ladies overall. Not a single one of them came close to the brilliance of some of the top female skaters.

 

[janetfan]

Don't be such a drama queen. She's not a threat to Yu-na, Mao or Joannie. Doesn't have the technical guns. Mirai is more game & it's not like Kanako won with commanding performances. If Rachael had a different batch of judges & technical callers, she might have won. Kanako is cute and her smile is charming, but that doesn't mean people have to establish a pantheon to her name, call her the next wunderkid taking the world by storm and overlook her technical flaws.

She looks amazing in this field, but there are greater skaters out there. That's all. In a Tokyo Worlds with a revamped Mao, lutzing and looping Miki, rejuvenated Joannie, trained and polished Mirai, and the heavenly Queen Yu-na, I don't see her getting that far. She said it herself, "I don't compete with Mao. She skates in heaven, and I skate on earth" (very sweet & humble of her, given Mao's current conditon). I do, however, see a possible GPF gold for her, given several injuries and absences. I wish her the best, but I really don't get the big fuss. Her junior performances were better.

Also, you have missed several great smiles between Janet and Kanako, such as this one here

I pretty much agree with what you wrote here -except the "drama queen" part.
I was mocking a bit and my post was not so serious.

Many great smiles before and after Janet and what I wrote was noting a few of the comments like "I hate her cutesey program."

We all have different taste and thank goodness we see variety from skaters.
BTW, portions of both of Rachael's programs are playing off the "cutesy" image as did her SP from last season. Is it so bad for skaters to do what they feel most comfortable with?

Some might not see it this way but Kanako's SP - the way it is presented is pretty good representation of some of the swing dancing from the 40's when the world was at war and "over the top" did not exist. It was about getting wild and silly and Kanako pulls off that feeling of abandonment pretty well. Some might not like it but the judges don't seem to mind

As to Kanako being over her head at Worlds? I have no idea if she will make the Japanese World team. But there is 4CC and WTT later this season so she will get her chances.

Sometimes I don't like to see such young skaters appearing at so many events in a season.
Has Kanako already done JO, two GP's , next the GPF followed by Natls. Then 4CC, World and WTT? That is too much for a young skater and maybe too much for more experienced skaters IMO.

 

[chloepoco]

Haven't read any of this thread, just arrived back after a 3 hour ride, and here are my thoughts from today's Ladies FS:e G.

Kanako Murakami -- she is my honest humble opinion wayyyyyyyyy overrated. Her legs are raggedy and when she jumps she lands with her chest almost touching the ice, not straight up & down the way one should, just hugely disappointing to see her skate in person. Her win reminds me of those that used to say of the Russians "skating while Russian", however nowadays it's "skating while Japanese".

Is it possible you're just a bit biased against Kanako? You entitled to you own opinions, however, I believe it was you, who in the NHK Thread, said you were considering not attending Skate America after you found out Kanako would be there (if it wasn't you, my apologies).

Anyways, from postings in this thread, I believe all these snarky comments about her, as well as accusing the Japanese tech caller as being dishonest, etc. etc. goes to prove that Kanako has just made it big time!