Should the USFSA give Alissa Czisny a ticket to Worlds after being GPF Champion?

[silverlake22]

^ I agree. It was a lovely skate but she could do better. But people always underestimate Alissa. It's understandable - given how many times she has failed to live up to expectations.

Well, it's the best she's skated in a long time, that's for sure. Landing 6 triples is a huge deal for Alissa, and the only issues in her FS was a step out of the 2a and not doing the combo after the final 3t. There's not much more she could have done.

 

[Olympia]

Joe - I tried to answer your question about Czisny's reputation. Read a few posts back. I don't know if you'll find it very interesting - but I did give it a go.

People have different ways of being fans and enjoy different things about skating. Some are skaters. Some of us aren't. That doesn't mean we haven't done things in our lives that aren't difficult and competitive. It'd be pretty sad for skating if the only people who watched were skaters or former skaters.

We all have different opinions. I am always a fan of skaters I've been watching for years. I get attached. Silverlake gets excited by the newbies. It's all good. It seems to be she watches skating very closely and knows a lot about it. I've learned a lot from her _ and from you. It's just a forum. We are all "qualified" to make opinions.

Layfan, I heartily second that! I've said before that our screen names are our qualification. If we care enough about skating to sign on here, we get to say what we admire. (I hope we're a bit more restrained about what we dislike, especially if it involves scolding either skaters or fellow fans.) Like you, I tend to get attached to skaters I've watched for a long time. Part of it is that I enjoy watching them grow, and part is that I honor the grueling work they do day after day. Also like you, I like learning about the newbies from other fans. I'm immensely impressed by the expertise of so many of the posters here, and they help me watch skating more intelligently. But everyone here has insights to offer, and (maybe this is a corollary of that statement) every skater deserves fans.

Whether Alissa ends up on the world team or not (and I deeply hope she does sparklingly at Nationals so there's no question of her merit!), I hope she remains in skating, either as an eligible or as a pro. She's a joy to watch, and her formidable skills, presentation, and musicality are at this moment irreplaceable in American skating.

 

[Layfan]

Layfan, I heartily second that! I've said before that our screen names are our qualification. If we care enough about skating to sign on here, we get to say what we admire. (I hope we're a bit more restrained about what we dislike, especially if it involves scolding either skaters or fellow fans.) Like you, I tend to get attached to skaters I've watched for a long time. Part of it is that I enjoy watching them grow, and part is that I honor the grueling work they do day after day. Also like you, I like learning about the newbies from other fans. I'm immensely impressed by the expertise of so many of the posters here, and they help me watch skating more intelligently. But everyone here has insights to offer, and (maybe this is a corollary of that statement) every skater deserves fans.

Whether Alissa ends up on the world team or not (and I deeply hope she does sparklingly at Nationals so there's no question of her merit!), I hope she remains in skating, either as an eligible or as a pro. She's a joy to watch, and her formidable skills, presentation, and musicality are at this moment irreplaceable in American skating.

yes... well a lot of us could do well to remember that. :

Thanks for your thoughts as always, O.

 

[FlattFan]

When was the last time Alissa skated that well in the LP? I don't even recall. And with a different technical caller, she could be 5th instead of 1st.

 

[MKFSfan]

Alissa skated well in the LP at 2007 Nationals and even won the LP, attempted 6 triples, 3 combos, one double axle. There were no falls but I remember a two footed jump (flip?), probably UR. I thought she was absolutely stunning in both that LP and in winning the GPF.

 

[R.D.]

Wow, if that was the skate of her life, then that was a disappointment. There were several mistakes in her FS and her jumps were not nearly as smooth as they can be. She skated well...but to say it was "the skate of her life" really does her injustice.

This could be a potential silver lining for Alyssa fans...maybe it means she has not peaked yet.

Then again,...

 

[Mathman]

Some Alissa trivia.

Alissa has competed in senior Midwest Sectionals five times. How many times did she win?

Answer: One, this year.

 

[R.D.]

I think if Alissa finishes in the top 2 at nationals and does so convincingly it will really help her be seen as consistent - or more consistent that she used to be at least. If she skates well at nationals, it just improves her reputation in so many ways and will make people realize her winning the GPF wasn't a fluke, that she's really regrouped, and that she can deliver when the pressure is on.

And to play DA, supposing she goes and lays an egg at Worlds for the third time? What can we make of her then?

Czisny has a history of peaking early. If she can start delivering when the pressure is on in the BIG events, then we can talk about newfound consistency. Until then, it's just smoke- hopes of fans and nothing more.

But if she is say 3rd or 4th and gets sent to Worlds, she knows she's just being sent to help get the US 3 spots back, and that would put pressure on her and might cause her to mess up there.

I can agree here.

I know a couple of posters have been giving me some grief (you know who you are) for clamping down on Czisny, but there you have it. She's given me plenty of reasons over the years to not expect much from her late in the game.

ETA: Also, don't interpret all this as me disliking her. Not true. I'd personally be very happy for her if she won. But I know in the back of my mind that it's a real gamble. As of now there are other (safer) options for the betting man. Maybe it isn't that way any more, but it's up to her to show me (us) that she is now a safer bet. How does she do that? Win nationals with a CONVINCING skate (i.e. don't back into it like in '09). Then go to worlds and place in the top 10. Bonus points if you help us get 3 spots back

 

[Layfan]

^ yes... I think don't think it would much fun for Alissa to be sent to world in that way. I don't think it would be nice for any of the other skaters either ... I think if Mirai or Rachael of Ashley were sent despite coming in third, fourth or fifth they would feel the same sort of negative pressure to do well at worlds.

One of the reasons I don't think Alissa should go if she is third. Unless the second place finisher is too young, of course.

I can't speak for them of course _ and Johnny Weir kept insisting he should have been sent in 2009 even though he messed up his nationals. So maybe some of the U.S. ladies would feel the same way about themself. But then, the third spot wasn't on the line for the men in '09.

 

[Mathman]

And to play DA, supposing she goes and lays an egg at Worlds for the third time? What can we make of her then?

It wouldn't matter what we thought of her. It would be over and done with. On to 2012.

 

[janetfan]

It wouldn't matter what we thought of her. It would be over and done with. On to 2012.

Bingo.....

 

[Mrs. P]

^ yes... I think don't think it would much fun for Alissa to be sent to world in that way. I don't think it would be nice for any of the other skaters either ... I think if Mirai or Rachael of Ashley were sent despite coming in third, fourth or fifth they would feel the same sort of negative pressure to do well at worlds.

One of the reasons I don't think Alissa should go if she is third. Unless the second place finisher is too young, of course.

I can't speak for them of course _ and Johnny Weir kept insisting he should have been sent in 2009 even though he messed up his nationals. So maybe some of the U.S. ladies would feel the same way about themself. But then, the third spot wasn't on the line for the men in '09.

Of course, the men had to ::keep:: three spots for the Olympics. Evan did his job by winning, but then Jeremy tanked by 11th. But even then, they still would had three spots. Mroz just secured it by finishing within the top 10. (9th).

And it's also worth noting that year that Jeremy won Cup of China, GPF and Nationals before tanking at Worlds...goes to show that no many times you win before hand, it's no guarantee of Worlds success.

 

[silverlake22]

And to play DA, supposing she goes and lays an egg at Worlds for the third time? What can we make of her then?

Czisny has a history of peaking early. If she can start delivering when the pressure is on in the BIG events, then we can talk about newfound consistency. Until then, it's just smoke- hopes of fans and nothing more.



I can agree here.

I know a couple of posters have been giving me some grief (you know who you are) for clamping down on Czisny, but there you have it. She's given me plenty of reasons over the years to not expect much from her late in the game.

ETA: Also, don't interpret all this as me disliking her. Not true. I'd personally be very happy for her if she won. But I know in the back of my mind that it's a real gamble. As of now there are other (safer) options for the betting man. Maybe it isn't that way any more, but it's up to her to show me (us) that she is now a safer bet. How does she do that? Win nationals with a CONVINCING skate (i.e. don't back into it like in '09). Then go to worlds and place in the top 10. Bonus points if you help us get 3 spots back

I agree with all this. Of course she could be great at nats and then falter at Worlds, we've seen that with Jeremy Abbott a few times. On the other hand, we have Evan Lysacek, who didn't skate that well at nationals the past two years and then went on to win Worlds and the Olympics. So any way you look at it, it's a crap shoot. This is just another reason we shouldn't automatically give Alissa, or anyone else, a spot to Worlds. We send the top 2 skaters at nationals knowing that it's a crapshoot and that regaining 3 spots is always a question mark, so in that sense, why would you send the 3rd or 4th ranked skater to Worlds when the odds of her doing well their are just as undeterminable as the other ladies? Especially when that skater is Alissa and has proven to be inconsistent throughout her career. Also, now that Rachael bombed at the GPF, we know that she's not as reliable as we like to think, so again it's just gonna come down to who skates the best at nationals and then all we can do is hope that those two girls skate well at Worlds.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Joe - I tried to answer your question about Czisny's reputation. Read a few posts back. I don't know if you'll find it very interesting - but I did give it a go.

People have different ways of being fans and enjoy different things about skating. Some are skaters. Some of us aren't. That doesn't mean we haven't done things in our lives that aren't difficult and competitive. It'd be pretty sad for skating if the only people who watched were skaters or former skaters.

We all have different opinions. I am always a fan of skaters I've been watching for years. I get attached. Silverlake gets excited by the newbies. It's all good. It seems to be she watches skating very closely and knows a lot about it. I've learned a lot from her _ and from you. It's just a forum. We are all "qualified" to make opinions.

I understand what you are saying. Life is very competitive, but figure skating contests are judged as competitive games.

Picture yourself alone on ice of an Arena with about 2,000 people watching you and an entire side of the Arena is full of Figure Skating Officials including the Tech Panel and the judges. That's not exactly the norm of one's life. Every skater in competition is nervous. How could they not be? some more than others I judge that nervousness because I think it just might ruin a performance. Hence my use of the term Is he/she good under fire? some are better than others. Young girls in general, have no problem with nerves but as they get older and well known, some develop nervousness as they feel pressure from the media, from their Federation, from their fans. It can ruin them. Some skaters have had a difficult time in performing their best. Injury, nerves, boredom are some of the reasons, I think of. All that has to be weathered with patience. Then there is the skater who has the toughest time for several years to show her best in a series of competitions. I may not be a direct fan of her, but I certainly see her as gliding over the obstacles and being on her way to greater things. No rememberance of the bad time nor put downs are in oder. Let the lady enjoy her new found happiness without the expectancy of her reverting to the bad times.

The thread was about the GPs v. the US Nats, however, it turned into a discussion about Czisny and some saying she should get a bye to the Worlds and othes saying she will melt at Nats. In the US women skaters are more popular than skaters in other divisions. Opinions are plentiful.

I do not read everyone's post although I do read interesting topics. I also enjoy reading Silverlakes opinions as well as yours. If I sound sarcastic about skating, it's because I am. I would like to see it rise above the little girl level (in the US). Sadly, i doubt it ever will.

 

[Layfan]

It wouldn't matter what we thought of her. It would be over and done with. On to 2012.

I'd think of her as the 2010 GPF Champion.

I understand what you are saying. Life is very competitive, but figure skating contests are judged as competitive games.

Picture yourself alone on ice of an Arena with about 2,000 people watching you and an entire side of the Arena is full of Figure Skating Officials including the Tech Panel and the judges. That's not exactly the norm of one's life. Every skater in competition is nervous. How could they not be? some more than others I judge that nervousness because I think it just might ruin a performance. Hence my use of the term Is he/she good under fire? some are better than others. Young girls in general, have no problem with nerves but as they get older and well known, some develop nervousness as they feel pressure from the media, from their Federation, from their fans. It can ruin them. Some skaters have had a difficult time in performing their best. Injury, nerves, boredom are some of the reasons, I think of. All that has to be weathered with patience. Then there is the skater who has the toughest time for several years to show her best in a series of competitions. I may not be a direct fan of her, but I certainly see her as gliding over the obstacles and being on her way to greater things. No rememberance of the bad time nor put downs are in oder. Let the lady enjoy her new found happiness without the expectancy of her reverting to the bad times.

The thread was about the GPs v. the US Nats, however, it turned into a discussion about Czisny and some saying she should get a bye to the Worlds and othes saying she will melt at Nats. In the US women skaters are more popular than skaters in other divisions. Opinions are plentiful.

I do not read everyone's post although I do read interesting topics. I also enjoy reading Silverlakes opinions as well as yours. If I sound sarcastic about skating, it's because I am. I would like to see it rise above the little girl level (in the US). Sadly, i doubt it ever will.

Believe me I'm not expecting anything but more gorgeous skating from Alissa.

About little girls - I think that's a bit tough but it's obviously true that the level has gone down a bit in the past few years. I think the US judges would love to reward Alissa and would have in every nationals if she had let them. I don't think it's really that U.S. skating looks down on mature skating or anything - I think it's just the USA ladies haven't been all that stellar for a while.

For my part, one of the reasons I'm thrilled Allissa is still around is because of her mature and refined style. I believe Mirai is already a joy to watch and will become more refined and find her own style in years to come. She is 17. Alissa is 23. I hope Mirai is still around at 23 and I excited at the idea of what she could be like by then.

 

[brightphoton]

I'll admit I had written Czisny off in the past. Her win in the GPF surprised me. She hasn't impressed me as a sure-fire contender yet. We'll see what she does at Nationals.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

About little girls - I think that's a bit tough but it's obviously true that the level has gone down a bit in the past few years. I think the US judges would love to reward Alissa and would have in every nationals if she had let them. I don't think it's really that U.S. skating looks down on mature skating or anything - I think it's just the USA ladies haven't been all that stellar for a while.

It is tough and for me that is unfortunate. There are young athletes both girls and boys who do not play the cutesy game. Mao and Yuna never played that cutesy game when they were younger. There was that youngest ever Tennis player: Jennifer Caprio. I think that was the
name. She played the game the same way the older ladies played. That I can admire. For the most part I think (it's opinion) using the cutesy style is to win the hearts of the judges as well as the audience. bleh.

Enough of Czisny. The results of the Nats may coincide with the results of the Committee so we will never know if the Committee has a mind of its own. Without Kwan around, this should be a good test.

 

[fairly4]

it is a tough call, should she be in just because of the gpf win, who knows.
i am happy she got in and won--she deserved it , but i am not happy at how she got into the final in the first place. (do i think she was overscored /held up in france yes) should have she got in . me no, but she did and she won and she proved she deserved to be there.
i think she should skate at nationals to be in worlds personally my opinion, i think all U.S. skaters should skate at nationals to be get into 4cc, Worlds, olympics.
how she places there determines whether she goes to worlds or not, my thinking

 

[pangtongfan]

The key for Czisny at Nationals is a clean short. If she does that she will be given a huge lead unless Nagasu does a triple-triple, and then will be hang on to finish either 1st or 2nd if she just lands atleast 3 triples in the LP, irregardless of what the others do. You will see 2009 again, if not to an even greater extreme. Her PCS will be much higher than all the others unless she really mops up the ice, and the GOE on her non jump elements will be very high and on her landed jumps generous. And it will be more justified than 2009 as she is the reigning GP final Champ, given the not so stellar state of the U.S ladies they should protect and hold up someone with such a title to some degree.

 

[gkelly]

The key for Czisny at Nationals is a clean short. If she does that she will be given a huge lead unless Nagasu does a triple-triple, and then will be hang on to finish either 1st or 2nd if she just lands atleast 3 triples in the LP, irregardless of what the others do.

Nah, if Nagasu and Czisny land similar jumps I think they will earn similar scores. Czisny quite likely would come out ahead, but it's not as if she has a huge cushion there.