Which Skater will go to the Qualis for Japan?

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Poor Nobi, mess up his last season's Worlds and the points he got did not add up to 18 even with Dai winning. With Takahiko and Dai the points added up to qualify both of them.
One must do the Quali Round which will not be difficult to place for a birth at Worlds. All 3 Japanese boys will be the Team.

Which two should go to 4CC and which one to the Qualis? Your choice!

 

[Blades of Passion]

What on Earth are you talking about? The Qualis? There's no such thing.

 

[aftertherain]

^ I think he meant that Nobu bombed so badly in the SP that he failed to qualify for the free skating event.

 

[Mathman]

Yes, I was a little bit confused about how the new rules applies to Oda, too.

First, the Japanese World and Four Continents teams have already been named so there is no speculation there. Kozika, Oda and Takahashi will go to Worlds and Kozuka, Takahashi and Nanri will go to Four Continents.

For the ladies, Ando, Asada and Murakawa have been assigned to Worlds. Ando, Asada and Suzuki have been assigned to Four Continents.

The "Quali's" is not a separate event. It is just a preliminary round prior to the short program at Worlds. (The ISU has never had a separate qualifying event to fill extra spots for Worlds, like they do for the Olympics.)

Biut the question is, since Oda finished lower than 18th at last years worlds, does he have to skate in the preliminary round or does he go straight through to the short program on the basis of Japan qualifying three men?

I think Oda does have to skate in the preliminary round. Is this right?

 

[Mathman]

No, wait. Oda is higher ranked than both Kozuka and Takahashi on the ISU worlds ranking list (also on the season's ranking list).

Am I reading the rules correctly that this means Kozuka will have to skate in the preliminary round because Oda finished lower than 18th at last year's worlds.

And Oda goes straight through to the short program because Kozuka and Takahashi won three spots for Japanese men last year and Oda is the highest ranked Japanese man?

 

[Bluebonnet]

Is qualifying round (preliminary round) in the Worlds back?

 

[aftertherain]

The "Quali's" is not a separate event. It is just a preliminary round prior to the short program at Worlds. (The ISU has never had a separate qualifying event to fill extra spots for Worlds, like they do for the Olympics.)

Biut the question is, since Oda finished lower than 18th at last years worlds, does he have to skate in the preliminary round or does he go straight through to the short program on the basis of Japan qualifying three men?

I think Oda does have to skate in the preliminary round. Is this right?

So wait. They took out qualifying and then brought it back in but it's different?

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

What on Earth are you talking about? The Qualis? There's no such thing.

There's more to competition than following skaters. The are the Rules and Regulations. The latter of which has been revised for the Roster of the Worlds. It's a new system brought to our attention by Mrs. P. It includes a "quali round" to fill the slots of the roster after all the automatic eligibles are placed. Here is Mrs. P's explanation

http://www.goldenskate.com/forum/sh...rnative-ways-to-determine-Worlds-roster/page2

In short if two skaters qualify with 13 points by last years Worlds, they go.

If 3 skaters are proposed to go they must qualify with 18 points by last Worlds. Nobi did not add up to 18 so 2 Japanese Men will be automatic and one must go to the quali round. Which one was my question? It's up to the Fed.

And then there is the 4CC to send two.

 

[Mathman]

In short if two skaters qualify with 13 points by last years Worlds, they go.

If 3 skaters are proposed to go they must qualify with 18 points by last Worlds. Nobi did not add up to 18 so 2 Japanese Men will be automatic and one must go to the quali round. Which one was my question? It's up to the Fed.

I don't think that's quite right. I think that the rules specify which one of the three it must be and that it is not up to the Federation to choose.

The way I understand the new rules it goes like this.

1. Takahashi's and Kozuka's placements at 2010 Worlds together added up to thirteen or less, so Japan qualifisd three men for 2011 worlds. Oda's placement is irrelevant.

2. Japan can send any three men they want to to 2011 Worlds. It does not have to be the ones who earned the spots. After Japanese Nationals, the Japanese federation chose to send Kozuka, Oda and Takahashi.

3. Since the third Japanese skater (Oda) did not place in the top 18 at 2010 Worlds, only two of Japan's three men are exempt from skating in the qualifying round in 2011.

4. The skater who must skate in the qualifying round is the one who is lowest-ranked in the ISU worlds ranking list. That's Kozuka.

In other worlds, individuals do not win or lose anything by their placements in last year's worlds, only nations do.

If this is the correct interpretation of the new rules, it is pretty hilarious as applied to Japanese men this year.

And then there is the 4CC to send two.

Japan will send three men to Four Continents. Kozuka, Takahashi and Nanri. This has alrerady been announced.

 

[aftertherain]

Nationals, the Japanese federation chose to send Kozuka, Oda and Takahashi.

3. Since the third Japanese skater (Oda) did not place in the top 18 at 2010 Worlds, only two of Japan's three men are exempt from skating in the qualifying round in 2011.

4. The skater who must skate in the qualifying round is the one who is lowest-ranked in the ISU worlds ranking list. That's Kozuka.

So wait. Does that mean both Nobu and Kozuka have to be in qualifying?

 

[Mathman]

So wait. Does that mean both Nobu and Kozuka have to be in qualifying?

No, as I understand it, just Kozuka.

I might be all wrong, but as far as I can tell it goes like this. Individuals don't matter. The top two Japanese men at Worlds earned three places. But the third Japanese man did not make the top 18. Therefore one of the three Japanese men must do the qualifying round. The one that must do the qualifying round is the one that is lowest on the ISU rankings list.

Mrs. P gave this example on the other thread. In ladies, the top Korean skater got second place. This qualifies two Korean ladies for this year. But Korean lady #2 did not get in the top 18. So one of he two Korean ladies -- whichever one is lower ranked in the ISU rankings list -- must skate in the qualifying round,

Korea could send two completely different skaters than last year. The lower ranked one, according to the ISU ranking list, would have to skate the qualifying round.

I might be all wrong, but this is what I am getting out of the new rules.

 

[Blades of Passion]

I see what you're saying now Joe, you just stated it in a confusion fashion.

There is no such thing as a separate pre-Worlds qualifying competition, which is what I thought you were speaking of.

This is a depressing topic as it only reminds how talented skaters from deep fields are constantly snubbed from being able to compete at Worlds.

 

[Mathman]

This is a depressing topic as it only reminds how talented skaters from deep fields are constantly snubbed from being able to compete at Worlds.

A consequence of the fact that there are no individuals in the ISU, just nations.

 

[SubRosa]

Won't Takahashi and Kozuka gain more points by participating in 4CC? Probably enough to rise above Oda in the World Standings?

 

[Mathman]

Won't Takahashi and Kozuka gain more points by participating in 4CC? Probably enough to rise above Oda in the World Standings?

?...!!!!!!!!

Yes, they will!

I wonder if the Japanese Federation took this into account in choosing the Four Continents team?

 

[Violet Bliss]

I just looked at the ISU World Ranking this afternoon, often good for a and/or a :scratch:.

The Europeans have extra points from "Selected International Competition" so currently Verner and Contesti are ranked over Abbott who's over Kozuka. At least Chan is now at #2 whereas the last time I looked, earlier in the season, he was #7. World's Silver didn't mean much.

 

[silverlake22]

I just looked at the ISU World Ranking this afternoon, often good for a and/or a :scratch:.

The Europeans have extra points from "Selected International Competition" so currently Verner and Contesti are ranked over Abbott who's over Kozuka. At least Chan is now at #2 whereas the last time I looked, earlier in the season, he was #7. World's Silver didn't mean much.

Verner had better GP results than Abbott this season and pretty comparable ones last season so that isn't that surprising. Contesti was a bit more of a shock, but he was 5th at Europeans and 7th at Worlds last year I believe?

 

[Violet Bliss]

Based on the ISU's consideration of more than two years' cummulative points, it can be understood that Abbott got beat once by Verner, or rather he beat himself, and so lost the chance for the GPF competition, just as Chan missed the COR last year due to injury and subsequently the GPF as well. Fewer competitions, fewer points. But, almost instintually, one tends to figure the World Championship is the ultimate match up to determine the ranking for the year once and for all and a skater's last WC standing is his/her current standing, until the next time.

Sometimes my simple mind overrides complexity.

 

[genki]

I read somewhere in Japanese figure skating news, that Dai may have to skate in Preliminary round. Not fair. He has injury to attend to, you know.
But Dai said, " It is good thing,because I can take Preliminary as a practice." Come on, Dai. Your character is just too good. In Japan, it will be praised, but in US, you will be a door mat!!

 

[Mrs. P]

No, as I understand it, just Kozuka.

I might be all wrong, but as far as I can tell it goes like this. Individuals don't matter. The top two Japanese men at Worlds earned three places. But the third Japanese man did not make the top 18. Therefore one of the three Japanese men must do the qualifying round. The one that must do the qualifying round is the one that is lowest on the ISU rankings list.

Mrs. P gave this example on the other thread. In ladies, the top Korean skater got second place. This qualifies two Korean ladies for this year. But Korean lady #2 did not get in the top 18. So one of he two Korean ladies -- whichever one is lower ranked in the ISU rankings list -- must skate in the qualifying round,

Korea could send two completely different skaters than last year. The lower ranked one, according to the ISU ranking list, would have to skate the qualifying round.

I might be all wrong, but this is what I am getting out of the new rules.

You got it, MM.

I'd like to point everyone to the thread I started in the World Championships section called Men's Prospects:

http://www.goldenskate.com/forum/showthread.php?33480-Men-prospects

I also have one called Ladies' Prospects:

http://www.goldenskate.com/forum/showthread.php?33448-Ladies-prospects

Also I'd like to point to Tony Wheeler's Roster Watch, where I got wind of these new policies in the first place. He currently has a nice explanation of the entries for men in Europeans.

http://www.flutzingaround.com/p/roster-outlooks-europeans-four.html

All the links go into extensive detail about the new regulations (which are outlined in the document ISU Special Regulations & Technical Rules Singles & Pair Skating and Ice Dance 2010, Section 378.) They also list which multiple-skater countries will have skaters who have to skate in the qualifying round.

Turns out that for the men only two countries will have all their skaters directly qualify: USA (Thanks to the respective placements of Abbott (5), Rippon (6) and Bradley (18 -- by the skin of his teeth!) and France with the placements of Joubert (3) and Amodio (15)

The women have three countries with all direct entries: Japan (with Asada's Gold, Miki's 4th place finish and Akiko's come from behind from 20th to 11th place after the FS); Russia (with Makarova and Leonova both finishing in the top 10) and USA both with Rachael Flatt and Mirai Nagasu finishing 7th and 9th.

The women have quite the irony with the Finland team -- despite the fact that it was Kiira Korpi who caused the Fins to have to send one skater to a QR (with a dismal 19th place finish), it will actually be Laura Lepisto, the REIGNING BRONZE MEDALIST, who will have to do the QR because she dropped in the World Standings due to missing the GP series. Of course I have no idea if Laura will even compete at Worlds this year with her injury. But if she does, she will have to go to QR, because it looks like she's not going to Europeans, which would help her get those extra points.

As for the Japanese men, I mentioned in a different thread about what Kozuka and Takahashi will have to do at 4CC to overtake Oda in the standings.

http://www.goldenskate.com/forum/sh...ermine-the-selection-of-skaters-to-the-Worlds

To sum it up Daisuke will do it with a top 10 finish. But Kozuka, with a lower ranking, will have to finish in the top 3. Fourth place will send him directly to QR.