Which Skater will go to the Qualis for Japan?

[genki]

Genki's feeling that Daisuke's attitude of taking the QR as a practice will likely contribute to him being taken as a door mat, it's actually a very smart and positive approach if he had to do the QR.

Well, I do not say this if Dai is completely healthy. The impact of the collision was completely down graded by Dai himself, but everybody knew and also mentioned clearly by Honda that Dai was not in a good condition to skate.

After seeing Dai struggle in short, most of Japanese thought that Dai would not even able to finish FS. Then it came that staggering performance from Dai.
All Japanese totally fell in love with Dai all over again, since he never blamed anybody and never made any excuse for his poor performance in Short.

It was reported that he had whiplash, which requires long term treatment. I really want him to be honest to himself once , so that he will be able to take care of his injury seriously.

It is considered to be a tremendous virtue in Japan to sacrifice oneself for the good of others. But this is becoming so ridiculous now. IMO, Dai should have not even skated at Nationals in that condition.

Anyway, I can not be responsible for the accuracy of Sports-Houch, which reported Dai may go to Q due to his standing in nationals.

 

[Violet Bliss]

Genki, all I was saying was that Daisuke was a winner with a winner's attitude. His FP performance proved it. His winning the hearts of a nation and more proved it. Whatever ails him physically, he remains strong and a winner mentally, making no compromises on his ethics. Bravo.

I don't believe he would be required to do the QR but I used his statement as an example of the kind of winning attitude his teammate who has to go could emulate.

 

[seniorita]

Okay, do I understand this correctly?
318

Kozuka (before 4CC): 574 + 496 + 648 + 504 + 400 + 280 = 2902

But the World Standings chart shows Kozuka as having 2982. Where am I missing the extra 80 points?

(And how does the 70% of the season-before-last thing work?)

the points you see in the 2008-09 season are already calculated x 0.7
Kozu uses 574+496=1070 from Isu Champs + the 4 best gps scores, 648+360+504+400=1912

 

[Mathman]

...Dai needs 9 points to pass him, so I don't know how you earn 9 points but I guess he just has to show up and sit down on the ice and still will have highest ranking than Kozu.

If Daisuke gets 24th place he earns 74 points.

If he gets 25th place he earns 0 points.

The full roster for Four Continents has not been completed yet, but last year there were 27 entries. The Brazilian guy -- the first Brazilian skater ever to represent that country in an ISU championship -- got 17th. (Well, he's actually Canadian, but anyway...)

it is rather frustrating that I said the same and nobody got it and people kept saying it is guessing while it is simple summing and substract points...

There is an American expression, "too hip for the room," referring to a comedian whose jokes are so clever that the audience doesn't get them.

Don't despair. If you keep plugging away, after the tenth time you tell me something I will say to myself..."oh...yeah...I get it now!"

Then: "I should have thought of that myself."

Then after a couple of days I start believing that I did think of it myself.

 

[Mathman]

...There are no concepts of "punish" and "bomb" with ISU, nor individuals such as "Oda" and "Kozuka". There is no bombing, just a skater scoring what he scores, regardless of results expected of him and no one is punished, just the number of skaters in a federation and how they qualify to enter the ISU WC competition being determined....

That's the part that we have to keep telling ourselves, because it seem so weird in a sport so personal as figure skating.

But yeah...

Anyway, go currently-number-one-ranked-Japanese-male-skater!

 

[dorispulaski]

It does make me wonder whether it is worth Takahito's while to go to 2 Senior B competitions, and win them, for the extra 500 points he would get. It's 840 points to win 4CC's, AFAIR.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

It's incredible that these topics were on the Board weeks before it became the "IT" topic. The guessing and the rules were as confusing to just about all the posters, even the Rulesfans. Now we have come down to the WHO goes to Quali?

The reason someone has to skate the Quali, is Nobunari ODA.
The lowest in total points is Takahiko KOZUKA. (ISU rule)
The previous World Champ has not beEN skating his best since then is Daisuke TAKAHASHI.

And the 4CCs have been announced: Dai, Taka, and Hanyu. This leaves Nobi (with the highest total of points) free to skate the Quali.

Since there is an ISU Rule about who must skate the Quali and the powerful Japanese Federation already made their announcements(?) on 4CC and Worlds, it is a guessing game on who goes to the Quali.

From what I see, it is a battle between the ISU and Japan. Who will blink?

 

[Oscilla]

I don't know why some people seem to be treating skating in Quals like a punishment. For me, it could prove to be a great thing for the skater who will get to skate it, since it seems to be a good opportunity for the skater to shake some nerves out. Nobunari, for example, had his best Worlds back when the QRs were still in place. I think all of the skaters are experienced enough not to go all out in the QR.

As for who gets to skate it - aside from 4CCs there is Winter Universiade with Nobunari on the roster. He'll probably get some points from that. Although personally he'd be my choice to skate in the Qualis - he seems to be the strongest stamina-wise, but in the greatest need to have his nerves sorted out before the SP.

Takahiko is competing now in the Intercollegiate championships, but I don't think there are any ISU points for that... He's not on the WU roster.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

^^^
Can you cite which posters consider it a Punishment? I do not see anyone calling it punishment.

 

[Mathman]

And the 4CCs have been announced: Dai, Taka, and Hanyu. This leaves Nobi (with the highest total of points) free to skate the Quali.

Any skater is "free" to skate the qualifying round at worlds, whether he goes to four continents or not.

Since there is an ISU Rule about who must skate the Quali and the powerful Japanese Federation already made their announcements(?) on 4CC and Worlds, it is a guessing game on who goes to the Quali.

It is not a guessing game. The skater with the lowest ISU worlds ranking is required to skate the qualifying round. Period.

From what I see, it is a battle between the ISU and Japan. Who will blink?

It is not a battle between anyone. The ISU puts on a world championship and sets the rules for participation. Do you think that the Japanese federation will call for an emergency meeting of the ISU council to change the rules between now and March?

While they are at it, why don't they just tell the ISU that they are going to send four skaters instead of three to worlds?

 

[seniorita]

If they are going to ask, I would say ask for 6 , 4 doesnt worth the fuss!
I wish I could guess the Lottery numbers are easy as who would go to Q round at worlds

If i m supposed to be the rulelover because i posted them, I have to say that I found out there is a Q round at Worlds and Euros as late as the Christmas vacations, just then decided to update my data and read about it.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Any skater is "free" to skate the qualifying round at worlds, whether he goes to four continents or not.



It is not a guessing game. The skater with the lowest ISU worlds ranking is required to skate the qualifying round. Period.



It is not a battle between anyone. The ISU puts on a world championship and sets the rules for participation. Do you think that the Japanese federation will call for an emergency meeting of the ISU council to change the rules between now and March?

While they are at it, why don't they just tell the ISU that they are going to send four skaters instead of three to worlds?

If we rely on your adherence to the Rules, and lack of imagination, then Kozuka goes to Qualis, and Japan Fed is put in its place. Problem is, can the Japanese Fed change their minds about the 4CC Team or will Oda go directly to Worlds and not pass 4CC? Will Kozuka have to do Qualis and 4CC? There's more to this than Rules. I would suggest we wait and see what happens.

 

[Violet Bliss]

If we rely on your adherence to the Rules, and lack of imagination, then Kozuka goes to Qualis, and Japan Fed is put in its place. Problem is, can the Japanese Fed change their minds about the 4CC Team or will Oda go directly to Worlds and not pass 4CC? Will Kozuka have to do Qualis and 4CC? There's more to this than Rules. I would suggest we wait and see what happens.

If the skaters want to compete in the ISU WC, they have to go by the ISU rules, under which Kozuka is going to do the QR whatever competitions he and the other Japanese World Team members participate between now and the WC.

However, if you are interested in an imaginary World Championship, then any imaginary rule applies and any scenario can happen. Yea, who needs the real competitions with their stupid rules?

Actually on this board alone, imaginary competions and imaginary results have been presented, declared, defended, sworn over and argued about so much they are real to some people.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

^^^

Your use of the word "imaginery" is solely yours. Imagination, however, has many meanings and imaginery would be counter productive to ML King"s I had a dream.

Nothing wrong with adhering to Rules. They have a lot to do with interpretation,

 

[ImaginaryPogue]

1. It's not a punishment to have to skate in qualifiers, but I can't deny swallowing a heavy dose of irony when you see the rules. Japan, Finland, Czech Republic etc all have skaters that have to skate the qualifying round despite being the ones who ensured that their country had at least one direct entry (Kozuka, Lepisto, Brezina) due to poor luck (injuries sidelined Brezina and Lepisto, which meant they couldn't get the points that Verner/Korpi got to pass them in the world standings).

2. Gives an unfair weight to the senior B events. For example, check out the season standings, of just this season. Would it surprise you to note that the fourth best team is.... Carron/Jones? Yep - two senior B events and two GP events give them the fourth highest total. Contesti's overall world standings? Despite having only one ISU/GP medal to his name, he's higher than Brian Joubert!!!! Nearly 40% of his total comes from Senior B competitions.

 

[Mrs. P]

1. It's not a punishment to have to skate in qualifiers, but I can't deny swallowing a heavy dose of irony when you see the rules. Japan, Finland, Czech Republic etc all have skaters that have to skate the qualifying round despite being the ones who ensured that their country had at least one direct entry (Kozuka, Lepisto, Brezina) due to poor luck (injuries sidelined Brezina and Lepisto, which meant they couldn't get the points that Verner/Korpi got to pass them in the world standings).

2. Gives an unfair weight to the senior B events. For example, check out the season standings, of just this season. Would it surprise you to note that the fourth best team is.... Carron/Jones? Yep - two senior B events and two GP events give them the fourth highest total. Contesti's overall world standings? Despite having only one ISU/GP medal to his name, he's higher than Brian Joubert!!!! Nearly 40% of his total comes from Senior B competitions.

Yeah definitely Senior B's count too much here. I don't think it's so much the points you get placing at them (they are considerably lower than placing at Worlds or EC/4CC) but more so that you can count up to four of them toward your world standing score. I can understand the logic somewhat (you're wanting to give those skaters from deeper countries a chance to rank). But I think it makes sense to just accept two scores, not four.

That said, it's pretty impressive that Evan Lysacek has managed to stay No. 1 despite not competing this season -- sort of shows how well he did the last two seasons. But Patrick Chan doesn't seem too far behind...

 

[Oscilla]

If we rely on your adherence to the Rules, and lack of imagination, then Kozuka goes to Qualis, and Japan Fed is put in its place. Problem is, can the Japanese Fed change their minds about the 4CC Team or will Oda go directly to Worlds and not pass 4CC?

Why would the JSF need to be "put into place" or change their mind?

Nobunari is /not/ going directly to Worlds, he's scheduled to compete at Winter Universiade. In a non-Olympic year the JSF usually sends 1st, 2nd and 4th skater to 4CCs - that would mean Takahiko, Nobunari and Yuzuru. But Oda is elligible for the Universiade, whereas Takahashi isn't, so it would make no sense to send Nobunari to two pre-Worlds competitions and Daisuke to none.

 

[ImaginaryPogue]

Contesti has six contributing to his season best score.

Chan is only ten points behind Lysacek. He'll beat him after 4CC or Worlds.

The most impressive thing to me is Virtue/Moir's standings. No Senior B events, and only one GP season and they're still fourth. They won't be able to catch the top two, but they could surpass the Kerrs (would require the Kerrs to miss the podium at Euros though).

 

[Mathman]

Nobunari is /not/ going directly to Worlds, he's scheduled to compete at Winter Universiade. In a non-Olympic year the JSF usually sends 1st, 2nd and 4th skater to 4CCs - that would mean Takahiko, Nobunari and Yuzuru. But Oda is elligible for the Universiade, whereas Takahashi isn't, so it would make no sense to send Nobunari to two pre-Worlds competitions and Daisuke to none.

Thanks for that info! I forgot about the University games.

Takahashi won this event in 2009, and in 2007 Takahashi won and Oda got second.

I guess Takahashi graduated from college last year?

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Why would the JSF need to be "put into place" or change their mind?

Nobunari is /not/ going directly to Worlds, he's scheduled to compete at Winter Universiade. In a non-Olympic year the JSF usually sends 1st, 2nd and 4th skater to 4CCs - that would mean Takahiko, Nobunari and Yuzuru. But Oda is elligible for the Universiade, whereas Takahashi isn't, so it would make no sense to send Nobunari to two pre-Worlds competitions and Daisuke to none.

Oscilla- I bow to your knowledge of how the JF will work this out.

1. If Kozuka goes to Qualis, will he also have to skate 4CC as wel since the JF aleady selected him for that event?
2. I'm not aware of the Universiade Games. I don't believe they are "B" Comps (so no points) and have no bearing on the Worlds Roster. I'm just thinking about how Oda will be placed before Worlds since I do not consider the Univerisiade Games more than a limited entry competition. Oda can be part of it, if he chooses to do so.
3. The main question is no.1 above.