ISU Where Will Worlds BE (formerly) JAPAN QUAKE FOR WORLDS

[Mathman]

On a separate note, what I find fascinating is that it seems how figure skating is perceived differs in various countries. I think it is principally a sport in Japan, therefore winning counts. But according to some posters here, in other countries, it is more about beauty (of the skaters) or art or history / traditions?

It is a very funny sport.

First, there is no defense, only offense. You have four-and-a-half minutes to wrack up as many points as you possibly can by throwing your body about as vigorously as possible. With pauses in between to pose and look pretty. All set to music. You win in part by doing many hard tricks and in part by judges liking your performance.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Huzzah! We have a location and a date!

As for the idea that the popularity of figure skating in the US depends solely on the country producing a dominant ladies champion, not true. Back in the 80s, the most famous and celebrated US skaters were Scott Hamilton and Brian Boitano (who both won Olympic gold and were the ones to beat whenever they skated). At the same time, US ladies were saddled with a string of also-rans and headcases like Debi Thomas, Rosalyn Sumners and Jill Trenary. It wasn't until Kristi Yamaguchi that the US produced another dominant female skater, and her popularity at that time was dampened by racism, and Brian Boitano was still the star (she did achieve greater success later on thanks to her undeniable charisma and pluck).

Why do you play the Racism Card? Kristy was well liked by the American people as was that Black girl who went off to a top University to study medicine.

 

[mot]

It is a very funny sport.

First, there is no defense, only offense. You have four-and-a-half minutes to wrack up as many points as you possibly can by throwing your body about as vigorously as possible. With pauses in between to pose and look pretty. All set to music. You win in part by doing many hard tricks and in part by judges liking your performance.

That's the very reason why I LOVE IT!

 

[Serious Business]

Why do you play the Racism Card? Kristy was well liked by the American people as was that Black girl who went off to a top University to study medicine.

Oh Joesitz, you crack me up!

But to answer your question, I'm just going by scholarly article and such I've read about Kristi and her relative lack of endorsements at that point compared to Boitano. Maybe racism wasn't the reason. Or more likely, executives overestimated the racism of the American public and avoided giving her deals.

 

[seniorita]

Figure Skating is changing....but with Carmens, Romeo and Juliet and other classics, it is harder to take a leap forward when these songs are overplayed. In my opinion, Figure Skating needs to stop catering to it's classic, older, traditional audience and begin truly appealing to the youth of america.....imagine how much publicity a figure skating show with music from Lady Gaga would have?

But skaters dont use only classical music anyway. Apart from Carmens and Swan Lakes, that they are never enough for me, people choose inventive music every year, like Dai, or soundtracks (NOT requiem for a dream only, I was thinkin Abott tis season, Swayer.. )Ok I m bored of some classical pieces like Blue Danube over and over but never Carmen and Swans! Some skaters skate from one warhorse to the next but not many anymore.

which otherwise a young person will never get to hear at all unless it's the ringtone on their iphone.

I ve never heard a swan lake/carmen ring tone on the bus..Lady gaga on the other hand...

 

[janetfan]

Why do you play the Racism Card? Kristy was well liked by the American people as was that Black girl who went off to a top University to study medicine.

So many negative comments, first we hear the Russian word "gulag" carelessly applied to American institutions, next we hear Kristi was not accepted.

By '92 America had already gone though changes. I remember Kristi so fondly and never thought of her as anything but American. Pure American.
I feel that way about Mirai as well.

Dorothy did much better in endorsements than Kristi did.
Dorothy also did much better than Peggy did in endorsements.

Sometimes it is about timing, being in the right place at the right time.
I guess according to some, Americans felt a racist or ethnic distrust for Tara and Sarah because they never did as well with endorsements as Dorothy did either. :sheesh:

Geez, some o fthe comments here are just unbelievable.

 

[Robeye]

Why do you play the Racism Card? Kristy was well liked by the American people as was that Black girl who went off to a top University to study medicine.

Hehe, when someone captures the public imagination, people usually remember their names . (Debbie Thomas?)

 

[blue dog]

I don't agree at all. If a young entertainment-seeker wants to go to a Lady Gaga concert, he will go to a Lady Gaga concert. Why mar the visual effects by having figure skaters out there blocking the view?

But if you go to a figure skating show, not only do you get to see some pretty skating, but also you might get to hear Carmen or Swan Lake -- something truly different! -- which otherwise a young person will never get to hear at all unless it's the ringtone on their iphone.

Not to mention, there are always new ways to do old things. For example, Rudy Galindo's Swan Lake was definitely different. His moves were more jazz/hip hop, rather than ballet.

 

[Robeye]

I don't mean it as a value judgment of which art is better. I wouldn't even use the words high or low art, just commercial vs. non-commercial art (which aren't totally accurate either, as one is just more commercially orientated than the other). Art that pleases vs. art that challenges. With that in mind...

I vigorously disagree that 1960's and 70's for the US was a lull in less commercially orientated art, which is at least a big part of the counter cultural movement. And in terms of more traditional art forms, Nuruyev and Baryshnikov became household names in the US, while I don't think a ballet dancer has been household names in the US for a few decades now. Avant garde composer John Cage rose to fame and appeared all over, even on a game show. Andy Warhol and Jasper Johns, though not exactly the highest of brows nor the most non-commercial, created works that became famous despite being rather challenging for the average viewer. We no longer have a space for that in the mainstream in the US for a while now. That is a huge difference.

I hear what you're saying, SeriousBusiness. As a semi-interrogative coda to this interesting discussion: it may be that there is a certain amount of hindsight in this view. There was a time when Warhol may have been more interested in the actual contents of Campbell soup cans than in painting them. It's only in retrospect, when we view the arc of his career (culminating in success and public acclaim) that we can say that he was a part of a rich Manhattan artistic ferment. I think it possible (a dead-lock certainty, in fact) that there are a bunch of possible Warhols beavering away even as we speak (though probably not in Soho, what with the rents now), who, in ten or twenty years or so, we'll point to and say: "he was part of the Weehawken School who did their seminal work in the second decade of the century, though it took a while to be recognized." .

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

That's the very reason why I LOVE IT!

That's not what Jackson Haines would have said.

I'm not against the point system except the it restricts the skater and challenges the music. From what I've seen I don't see anything artisic in musical skating. I'm still looking for that special lady to bring me that special musicality that Kwan showed as FREE SKATING.
Best thing to do, imo, is to have the skaters show their Tech without music, and leave the musical skating to the Galas.

Musical skating is done mainly by Ice Dance for competition purposes.

 

[Mathman]

But to answer your question, I'm just going by scholarly article and such I've read about Kristi and her relative lack of endorsements at that point compared to Boitano. Maybe racism wasn't the reason. Or more likely, executives overestimated the racism of the American public and avoided giving her deals.

I never found those studies entirely convincing. (Although there was some anti-Japanese sentiment in Detroit around that time because of competition in the automobile industry.)

But anyway, the main point is...

Kristi will be at Border's bookstore in Novi, Michigan, next Wednesday to sign copies of "Dream Big, Little Pig." Guess who will be first in line!

 

[janetfan]

Hehe, when someone captures the public imagination, people usually remember their names . (Debbie Thomas?)

Yes, her name is "Debi Thomas" or as she is known today, "Doctor Debi Thomas."

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Not to mention, there are always new ways to do old things. For example, Rudy Galindo's Swan Lake was definitely different. His moves were more jazz/hip hop, rather than ballet.

That's the way it should be. If you use Swan Lake or Carmen, don't give me a partial story in 10 seconds. I know the 3hour versions with stellar casts at the opera and ballet.
However, by all means use the 4 minutes to show me how it can be taken to another level. That's the way it is in Idoltown.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Hehe, when someone captures the public imagination, people usually remember their names . (Debbie Thomas?)

You got me, but I think remembering names after 80 is not as easy for some. How old are you?

As Wilde would say: Youth! it's wasted on the young. Love that quote even more now.

 

[Robeye]

Yes, her name is "Debi Thomas" or as she is known today, "Doctor Debi Thomas."

Thanks, Hernando. She is clearly well-liked by you, not just by the orthographically challenged .

 

[Robeye]

You got me, but I think remembering names after 80 is not as easy for some. How old are you?

As Wilde would say: Youth! it's wasted on the young. Love that quote even more now.

Hoping to reach your age, Joe. And I appreciate your taking the small jest in good humor, sir.

 

[mot]

That's not what Jackson Haines would have said.

I'm not against the point system except the it restricts the skater and challenges the music. From what I've seen I don't see anything artisic in musical skating. I'm still looking for that special lady to bring me that special musicality that Kwan showed as FREE SKATING.
Best thing to do, imo, is to have the skaters show their Tech without music, and leave the musical skating to the Galas.

Musical skating is done mainly by Ice Dance for competition purposes.

Interesting indeed. We all believe in and love different aspects of this complex sport. I love the complexity and multidimensional nature of figure skating - both current and back-in-the-days, which bring out many different views and I enjoy sharing them, especially in this international forum.

Personally, as an architect, I believe restrictions are food for, if not the source of, creativity. I am sure fine artists have a different view. (I have a few years of fine art training and my first degree was in literature though.)

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

About the topic. Nice to hear the matter is resolved. The Council has reached consensus. I hope the posters who wanted the Worlds right after the earthquake are not so disappointed. The Council including Cinquanta set it in a months time. BRAVO for patience.

I'd love to go back and get one of those Russian winter hats with the fur on it, but it must be sable.

Will Gachinsky rise to the occasion?

 

[janetfan]

Personally, as an architect, I believe restrictions are food for, if not the source of, creativity.)

Your words remind me of the saying, "necessity is the mother of invention."

A favorite scene of mine from the film "Apollo 13" happens towards the end when a Nasa official says to the flight director, "this mission is a real disaster."

The flight director, played by Ed Harris replies, "to the contrary, this will be remembered as our finest hour." :yes:

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Personally, as an architect, I believe restrictions are food for, if not the source of, creativity. I am sure fine artists have a different view. (I have a few years of fine art training and my first degree was in literature though.)

We have to agree to disagree. I believe in the free flow of ART without restrictions.