What will the 2011/2012 season bring us in the men? | Page 6 | Golden Skate

What will the 2011/2012 season bring us in the men?

sorry for my ignorance but what layback variation did Michelle invent? I dont know much before her era so I dont know what different she did. :)

Now I remembered for next season I really really want Schultheiss to bounce back and not to be dishearted from this season, he has become one of my favs and he seems he had tough off ice problems this season..
 
sorry for my ignorance but what layback variation did Michelle invent? I dont know much before her era so I dont know what different she did. :)

Well, she didn't invent anything; what I meant was that she had a different variation. But you know how most laybacks have a leg sticking up? Her feet were both down whenever she did it.

Let me show you ...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zir_Bj7Dw8E&t=04m50s
 
sorry for my ignorance but what layback variation did Michelle invent? I dont know much before her era so I dont know what different she did. :)

Michelle did not have great flexibility in her back. Is was not easy for her to get a good arch and at the same time maintain a proper "attitude" position with her free leg, with pointed toe.

Although...I don't see anything wrong with this one (from the 1998 Goodwill Games):

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/goodwillgames/1998/news/1998/08/01/skating_first/t1_kwan_ap.jpg

Here, though, the position is only OK, with neither the back nor the leg anything exceptional.

http://webspace.webring.com/people/wu/um_6403/layback.jpg

By 2000 she was experimenting with the so-called "heart" spin. Pretty good back, free leg lowered (as Aftertherain mentions). and hands clasped behind the back. The idea was to make the outline of a heart shape as she spun around.

Better back, but leg lowered:

http://www.oocities.org/hollywood/lot/3143/nationals2001/practice/michelle2-layback2.jpg

2002: Not quite as flexible in the back.

http://michellekwan.fateback.com/images/99-02/Hersheys-APDuaneBurleson-Layback.jpg

By 2004 the CoP came around. At first Michelle ignored levels on her spins, keeping them simple and trying to make up the difference in GoE. The COP would have nothing of it. So Michele tried to incorporate weird changes of position into her spins. She ended up hurting her back and having to withdraw from the 2004 Grand Prix.

In 2011 she switched sports to lawn basketball. Here she is with First Lady Michelle Obama. :)

http://www.dlcache.indiatimes.com/imageserve/03d40Pzfyn0vs/x350.jpg
 
Michelle did not have great flexibility in her back..to get a good arch and at the same time maintain a proper "attitude" position with her free leg, with pointed toe..

The bolded part was very Dick Button-ish.:) Maybe a Eurosport break is required. :p

Do you mean her upper back/neck flexibility? cause otherwise her low back/ waist is quite flexible, it shows and in the pics you posted. Now her spin is done by many ladies, with variation in hands, but i didnt know she was the first to do it. I like this spin alot, it shows beautiful when fast.

Here she is with First Lady Michelle Obama.
Looks to me like football on heels. :biggrin:In the future for the same pic they ll say this is Mrs Obama with First Lady Michelle Kwan. Or if you are the President yourself you are not called First lady but they call your husband First Man?:cool:

Aftertherain I know you posted the exact second in tosca but I ended up watching the whole program, i dont know if for some of her fans it is painful because she didnt win, but it is one of my top three programs ever in Dortmund!i love it!
 
Do you mean her upper back/neck flexibility? cause otherwise her low back/ waist is quite flexible, it shows and in the pics you posted.

I don't know exactly what I mean, but, yeah, I think it is a kind of freedom about the shoulders more so than a bent waist that really makes the position. (?)

For instance, Shizuka Arakawa did not have a particularly good layback spin, but she could do this:

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2495/4036820968_a030526fa5.jpg

Some scientists in Japan studied her to see how she could achieve this position while skating. If I remember correctly they discovered that she had some rare anatomical anomaly in the last two vertebrae in her back.

Here is the much-praised Angela Nikodinov. I guess it is not the actual amount of "lay-back" that counts, but the grace of the entire position.

http://rpmedia.ask.com/ts?u=/wikipe...a_Nikodinov_2.jpg/92px-Angela_Nikodinov_2.jpg

Alissa:

http://img.allvoices.com/thumbs/event/598/486/66023023-alissa-czisny.jpg

Michelle was actually more famous for her Y-spin. But Rudy Galindo could beat her doing it-- to bring the thread back on topic (the men). :)

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_rnERrcZ9Y7I/R4vJRytln0I/AAAAAAAAAOo/TTDYoCxOpi0/s320/GALINDO.jpg

Seniorita said:
Or if you are the President yourself you are not called First lady but they call your husband First Man? :cool:

I believe you are "Madam President" and your husband is the "First Gentleman." :yes:
 
I never bought the she isn't flexible bit, I just thought it was an *easier* all around spin... she can hike her leg up yea high but can't do a proper layback, me thinks not.
 
It requires a different set of flexibility and strength to be able to both bend your head, neck and back backwards, THEN lift the free leg up to meet them at attitude position. Michelle, really tried in the first 3/4th of her career to get that classic layback, but if she put her free leg up, her back wouldn't bend, or vice versa. Now I'm not a biophysicist and I haven't studied Michelle personally, so I can't tell you why her body wouldn't cooperate. She did not lack flexibility in many other moves such as her split falling leaf, her charlotte spiral or the improvement on her arabesque spiral over the seasons. But being flexible in one way doesn't guarantee that one is flexible in every way.

Oh boy, we've gone way off topic. To bring it back to the men, but in keeping with the topic of flexibility in spins, I predict we will see more and more flexibility demonstrated by male skaters in spins, especially newer generations of skaters who will grow up under the newer COP rules. In fact, starting with the 2011-2012 season, the rules regarding spin levels have been slightly restricted (two kinds of level features have been restricted, while another one has been liberalized, but on balance, still a restriction overall when it comes to getting those spin levels up), which means that male skaters who want to get level 4 on all their spins may have to look towards trying out some bendy positions. Already, we see quite a few male skaters going for the donut spin in their camels. The COP mercilessly exhort difficulty in every area, and flexibility is one such area and the men will not be spared.
 
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Contortion positions rule! If one's Genes do not have the limberness, one should think about giving up skating. The demand for pretty(?) off beat positions is this generation's fans of figure skating.

Hear yee All Men. Forget this nonsense and continue your venture into getting all four Quads.
 
In fact, starting with the 2011-2012 season, the rules regarding spin levels have been slightly restricted (two kinds of level features have been restricted, while another one has been liberalized, but on balance, still a restriction overall when it comes to getting those spin levels up), which means that male skaters who want to get level 4 on all their spins may have to look towards trying out some bendy positions.

^ until the new generation grows up, the view of the current one is not very pleasant in spins. This season due to new rules almost all men tried to catch their blade in the camel spin and call this a donut, I found awful the view, it was the worse season for men spins, either this was not a donut they were doing, either they needed to drop the leg to catch it(ugly), either the spin was losing too much speed, in any case I can count up to five skaters whose combination was not looking a disaster. Why they need to make all Sasha Cohen flexible?

I never bought the she isn't flexible bit, I just thought it was an *easier* all around spin... she can hike her leg up yea high but can't do a proper layback, me thinks not.
:cool:I m gonna be the nerd but me thinks yes :yes:. Being flexible in one place doesnt mean all your body areas are like rubber! It doesnt look she 's special flexible in neck/back area anyway.Anyone who can raise their leg up to their ear, it is not necessary they can do an Alina Kabaeva. And it is easier to be gain and keep flexibility in the legs, they can train it even in older age. (you can start from Monday:)).
But even if she did it because it was easier for her, it was mostly in 6.0 era and i would vote anyday for a an original, fast and nice to watch spin than one more layback that in 85% looks like they are petrified in a position and spin.
 
The problem I see with the predictors is that they are basing the entire rivalry between Chan and Kozuka on Worlds 20ll. Both of these gentlemen have not shown consistency in performances prior to 2011. Do you believe this one performance in Moscow has changed that?
 
I don't think Kozuka ever will be a rival of Chan. How can a man who definitely falls 10 points behind in the SP can be that? He has no chance to land a 4-3 in the SP. Hanyu has the better chance for that. I think Takahashi is done. Oda has a serious brain and mental problems. He won't win a world medal.
 
NMURA said:
I don't think Kozuka ever will be a rival of Chan. How can a man who definitely falls 10 points behind in the SP can be that? He has no chance to land a 4-3 in the SP. Hanyu has the better chance for that. I think Takahashi is done. Oda has a serious brain and mental problems. He won't win a world medal

^
very optimistic post...:unsure:
---------------------------------

The problem I see with the predictors is that they are basing the entire rivalry between Chan and Kozuka on Worlds 20ll. Both of these gentlemen have not shown consistency in performances prior to 2011. Do you believe this one performance in Moscow has changed that?

I think Chan will be consistent, he found the magic bean and how to keep his temper, he has everything, the thing was to be mentally ready, even if he falls he spends the minimum energy about it and keeps going, thats a big plus. Kozuka he d better be consistent cause I m not used to rooting for headcases. :cool:
if he skates like TEB and Worlds he showed can be a rival (didnt he win Chan in TEs?) and also I hope his pcs will be better now he won a world medal, also I really hope that his confidence will be up cause he was TOO modest and that hurt his skating.
 
I don't think Kozuka ever will be a rival of Chan. How can a man who definitely falls 10 points behind in the SP can be that? He has no chance to land a 4-3 in the SP. Hanyu has the better chance for that. I think Takahashi is done. Oda has a serious brain and mental problems. He won't win a world medal.

Kozuka had a horrible SP this season and deserved to be behind Chan after the SP.

On the other hand I liked Kozuka's LP much more than Chan's.

Things will change heading into Sochi. By 2013 Lori will not be the most influential person pimping the judges.
Style will change, money will flow to corrupt people and a different look will be in vogue come 2014.

Look for Gachinksy's still developing style to be "it" come 2014.

It will be a more masculine style and much diffferent than the way way Chan skates.
In Sochi Gachinksy will be close to impossible to beat.
 
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Say what?! Doubtful, especially if Plushenko is there.

Wake up and smell the roses.

The Russians will take the Men's and Ladies OGM's in Sochi. By the time they actually skate enough money will have been paid to secure Gachinksy and Sotnikova's Gold medals (as long as they perform reasonably well).

Your problem is you think figure skating is a real sport.

Others who have watched for years know how political it is.....

For what it is worth I believe Gachinksy and Sotnikova will win without much controversy.
 
Wake up and smell the roses.

The Russians will take the Men's and Ladies OGM's in Sochi. By the time they actually skate enough money will have been paid to secure Gachinksy and Sotnikova's Gold medals (as long as they perform reasonably well).

Your problem is you think figure skating is a real sport.

Others who have watched for years know how political it is.....

For what it is worth I believe Gachinksy and Sotnikova will win without much controversy.

That's never been guaranteed in figure skating. They could conceivably crack under pressure, especially skating on home ice. Or Tuktamisheva could pull a Tonya Harding strategy on Sotnikova.

But yes, the Russians have already made a big deposit towards those Olympic Gold Medals by hosting Worlds 2011. And that was just the first installment. ;)
 
If the Russians are so good at politicking, Leonova, Kavaguti/Smirnov, and Bobrova/Soloviev all would have been on the podium at worlds this year. Yes there is the argument that Kavaguti/Smirnov are Russian #2 now and Russia did have Volosozhar/Trankov on the podium, but if politicking was really that successful now, B/S would have been on the podium as Russia's #1. Instead, they lost to the relative newbies to seniors, the Shibutanis, who had never been to Sr. Worlds, and Weaver and Poje, who came into the competition as Canada's #3 and weren't even at Worlds last year.
 
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