Patrick Chan in a Jumping Competition

[Joesitz (RIP)]

If we are just speaking of Figure Skating and not Team Sports, we have to admit there are more women who losing. Some women get emotional, some men get raucas.

As a male, I feel sorry for many skaters, but I also know that it is not so emotional but understand the nature of competition. As for individual performances it is rare that I get emotional.

 

[Mathman]

Different strokes. For me, I like to get all caught up in the thrill of victory, agony of defeat thing. I like to whoop and holler when I see a romp 'em, stomp 'em performance that blows away the field. Like Irina Slutskaya at 2005 worlds LP, or Liz Manley at the 1988 Olympics LP.

Or a nail-biter where two competitors go at it tooth and nail down to the last twizzle, like Virtue and Moir against Davis and White.

Here is what I can't get emotional about. I had the Toure de France on a few minutes ago. I saw a line of bicyclers pedaling away. I'm sure I was witnessing an extraordinary display of athleticism, of natural talent honed by intense training, and of amazing feats of strength and endurance. Wonderful sport, no emotion. Will somebody wake me up for the last two minutes?

 

[seniorita]

About who gets more emotional at a sporting event, men or women, I think it is men. You don't see gangs of ladies tearing down the grandstands and setting police cars on fire because their team lost.

That was only because in Europe it was rather late and dark. Seniorita after the end of Vancouver Lp broke a glass of wine and I remember Medusa deleted all her fanart, you mean we were not wild enough!??

 

[janetfan]

Here is what I can't get emotional about. I had the Toure de France on a few minutes ago. I saw a line of bicyclers pedaling away. I'm sure I was witnessing an extraordinary display of athleticism, of natural talent honed by intense training, and of amazing feats of strength and endurance. Wonderful sport, no emotion. Will somebody wake me up for the last two minutes?

Different strokes, indeed. I just came back from a 35 mile bike race and came in third. The two riders who beat me are in their 20's.
That age is a distant memory for me.

If the course had a few more hills I think I might have won as young guys are not typically good climbers.

Did I get emotional - not really because third place is not worth tears.

It sounds to me that the only thing in the world of sport that can get you emotional is strictly as a spectatator and limited to Michelle Kwan winning because others made mistakes.

Not exactly my best idea of sport.

 

[Mathman]

Medusa deleted all her fanart, you mean we were not wild enough!??

OT, but tell Medusa we miss her. Medusa used to make a lot of really interesting posts (and long ones ). I know how busy she is, but still...

 

[janetfan]

OT, but tell Medusa we miss her. Medusa used to make a lot of really interesting posts (and long ones ). I know how busy she is, but still...

On another thread somebody said Mirai needs to lose some weight

As a straight guy I can say Mirai is a beautiful young lady.

I don't like to talk about "weight" but will say I am happy to see Mirai is NOT as thin as certain saters who look borderline unhealthy to me.

I only mention this because if I recall MEDUSA used to make some pretty strong posts about weight/physical appearance.
I will give RD a mention as well and I agree with all the posters who show concern about skaters and weight.

That said I think Evan is too skinny to do quads and hope he puts on a few pounds

 

[Mathman]

^ I think you are remembering wrong. Medusa is a medical doctor (or in training to become one). I believe she took the other side of the argument, stressing healthy eating for all athletes and expressing concern about eating disorders.

 

[Violet Bliss]

Different strokes, indeed. I just came back from a 35 mile bike race and came in third. The two riders who beat me are in their 20's.
That age is a distant memory for me.

If the course had a few more hills I think I might have won as young guys are not typically good climbers.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

I'm from the school of etiquette. I watch any performance and applaud briskly if I like it, politely for others in the good sportsmanship way, and not at all if I don't see any reason to applaud. However, I am amused at gangs overtuning automobiles after a competion. BUT such behaviour would never happen in Figure Skating, and those fans who watch figure skating via the TV, I can't believe they rush outside and shout glee at the heavens.

Discussions about the judging is good to release pent up anger at their scores.

 

[janetfan]

I'm from the school of etiquette. I watch any performance and applaud briskly if I like it, politely for others in the good sportsmanship way, and not at all if I don't see any reason to applaud. However, I am amused at gangs overtuning automobiles after a competion. BUT such behaviour would never happen in Figure Skating, and those fans who watch figure skating via the TV, I can't believe they rush outside and shout glee at the heavens.

Discussions about the judging is good to release pent up anger at their scores.

I think you are right Joe - but I will admit I shed a tear when Michelle was placed second in Nagano:disagree: and although I did not go outside an turn over any automobiles I did JUMP out of my armchair as Mirai finishd her LP at 2010 Natls.

I am not sure what importance we need to place on emotions as it relates to figure skating. I think people/fans who get into sports whether at a Live event or watching TV do so for their own reasons.

We watch for different reasons but if it brings us happiness then that would seem to be a good thing.

It has been said that "sport and it's best can inspire us" and that is good enough for me and why I watch even though I can be a very cynical person.

 

[Violet Bliss]

These days many sport riots are pre organized by non fans. These criminals count on the emotional and drunken state of the frenzied fans, win or lose, and they agitate the crowd and initiate mob behavior, creating the rackus for them to loot stores, which are pre selected and pre-planned.

Many sport riots also get out of hand because the perps are mostly the same category of people as the cops (white males where I am) who are much more tolerant and non heavy handed than they would with minorities. The usual victims of wrongful police shootings are black or other non whites with whom they are much more trigger ready. I was in Central America in the summer of 1990 and was shocked that the Natives' blockade of a Montreal bridge became international news. A nuisance and inconvenient situation was called a crisis and Federal army was called in. (Oka Crisis) Heck, the local governments regularly close bridges for repairs every summer. And then when the Habs won the Stanley Cup in 1993, the police stayed away just observing the riot happening. Since then it doesn't take much to have a hockey riot. The criminals count on them and make sure of them.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

I am not sure what importance we need to place on emotions as it relates to figure skating. I think people/fans who get into sports whether at a Live event or watching TV do so for their own reasons.

That's a statement to remember, Hernando. I too, got carried away with Michelle's loss of gold at Nagano. I have wondered what plans the Kwan's would have had if she had won it. She was beginning to make a lot of money by then, and maybe Danny's dream of a colossal rink was going to work anyway since her fandom continued win or lose.

I also carried an overreaction of disdain for Tara. So emotions do get to individuals, but mine were soley for Kwan. I do feel some sorrow for skaters whom I like and whose dreams come to an end before their time. (The list is long.) However there are a few (the list is short) who satisfy my viewing pleasure.

I am always amazed at fans who find great artistry by some skaters. I do not go beyond a skater's presentation as being exceptional. Most skaters do not come up to that standard, and therefore I am emotional for very few and not necessarily every year. Personally, the performing arts are not all that important for me as the creative arts. I do feel amazed at creativity.

 

[janetfan]

I am always amazed at fans who find great artistry by some skaters. I do not go beyond a skater's presentation as being exceptional. Most skaters do not come up to that standard, and therefore I am emotional for very few and not necessarily every year. Personally, the performing arts are not all that important for me as the creative arts. I do feel amazed at creativity.

Joesitz, I seriously wonder about the goals/demands of the CoP as it relates to the "creative arts."

Too many great skaters from the past have made it perfectly clear that "skating for points" seems to stifle creativity as opposed to rewarding it.

Headng into the Olympic season we heard about the "new CoP friendly Johnny" only to see the same Johnny. Yes, I thought Johnny was more creative than most of the Men at Vancouver and what a price he paid under the CoP.

This season we were led to believe we would see a brand new Yuna. Sorry, and even though I liked both of her programs I did not see a "new Yuna" exploring new levels of artistic expression.

Part of that is because Wilson knows Yuna has to do certain things to score points and when push came to shove he could not bring himself to choreograph a new and different style for Yuna. Points, points, and more points is ALL that matters in this system.

FTR, I much prefered Yuna's choreo over Miki's. Neither of them showed anything new at all IMO and that is OK.
Atleast Miki and Morozov wre not advertsing a "brand new Miki" as opposed to the new Yuna we heard so much about.

Frank has spoken out against the restrictions of the CoP and so have Chen-Lu, Lambiel, Toller, Boitano, Janet ,etc... Even Mishin has grumbled about it although in his case I think he yearns for the days of the Soviet 6.0 style where strong jumps were everything and a tacky program with second rate spins was more than acceptable.

I remember seeing new and creative skating from Janet, Toller, Curry. I will never forget the originality and beauty that Chen-Lu brought to the ice. Her style would be unaccepatable today and she would either have to do what everyone else is doing or pay a terrible price for her originality.

Sometimes I think Yagudin was the last truly great freeskater.

Phooey on that!

It seems that the creative legacy the five of them left may never be topped as long as skating is about points and levels.

Maybe Patrick will lead the way in singles skating as his talent is undeniable. I feel the sameway about Pairs but do think CoP has helped Ice Dancing.

What V/M showed in Vancouver ranks up with some of the greatest and most creative skating I have ever seen as they presented works of art that will stand the test of time.

 

[Violet Bliss]

Johnny Weir is more artistic than creative IMO. But these days it's all about staging than skating. He is good at creating an exagerated image of accomplishments for himself and getting people to feel injustice and blame the system as he alleges. His only major international medal is a bronze after all these years and somehow he has the reputation as an Olympic Champion.

The really creative skaters didn't get their due recognition and honours under 6.0 either. People like Beacom, Cranston, and the Duchesnays. Artistic skaters such as Curry did win Olympics and other major events. Under CoP, the challenge is to be artistic while performing with demanding skills and athleticism and the best ones are getting there.

 

[janetfan]

Johnny Weir is more artistic than creative IMO. But these days it's all about staging than skating. He is good at creating an exagerated image of accomplishments for himself and getting people to feel injustice and blame the system as he alleges. His only international medal is a bronze after all these years and somehow he has the reputation as an Olympic Champion.
.

If we go back to the ice in Vancouver Johnny's skating was not only about image. Basically it was not just more creative than Patrick and Stephane but was executed better.

Johnny deserved 4th in Vancouver because his skating was superior to Chan and Lambiel.

They froze and Johnny performed beautifully. Did you miss that part?

 

[Violet Bliss]

If we go back to the ice in Vancouver Johnny's skating was not only about image. Basically it was not just more creative than Patrick and Stephane but was executed better.

Johnny deserved 4th in Vancouver because his skating was superior to Chan and Lambiel.

They froze and Johnny performed beautifully. Did you miss that part?

The magical charm of Johnny gets people to fight so long and so vigorously over a placement far from the podium. Even as per your opinion, he deserved a 4th place. *Yawns*

If Chan and Lambiel were to perform programs as void of technical difficulties and transitions as Johnny's, they would perform beautifully too. It's the Olympics, the ultimate sports event, not Ice Capades. I liked Johnny's skating too, but his skating superior to Chan and Lambiel? And as artistic as Johnny is, he can't light a candle to Lambiel.

 

[janetfan]

The magical charm of Johnny gets people to fight so long and so vigorously over a placement far from the podium. Even as per your opinion, he deserved a 4th place. *Yawns*

If Chan and Lambert were to perform programs as void of technical difficulties and transitions as Johnny's, they would perform beautifully too. It's the Olympics, the ultimate sports event, not Ice Capades. I liked Johnny's skating too, but his skating superior to Chan and Lambiel? And as artistic as Johnny is, he can't light a candle to Lambert.

The name is "Lambiel" not "Lambert"

I am NOT a Johnny fan. The guy at times bugs the heck out of me. But if I was judging in Vancouver there is little doubt in my mind the minor mistakes Johnny made compared to Patrick's "zamboni imitation" made it a no brainer who was better.

Patrick has finally admitted he was not prepared physically or MENTALLY in Vancouver. I had him no better than 7-8 in Vancouver.
He was gifted and Johnny, who skated much better was held back.

Just opinions here and it's OK with me if you think Patick skated well in Vancouver. I thought he was way off......and far from his best.

 

[Violet Bliss]

The name is "Lambiel" not "Lambert"

I corrected my bad typing habit.

I am NOT a Johnny fan. The guy at times bugs the heck out of me. But if I was judging in Vancouver there is little doubt in my mind the minor mistakes Johnny made compared to Patrick's "zamboni imitation" made it a no brainer who was better.

Patrick has finally admitted he was not prepared physically or MENTALLY in Vancouver. I had him no better than 7-8 in Vancouver.
He was gifted and Johnny, who skated much better was held back.

Just opinions here and it's OK with me if you think Patick skated well in Vancouver. I thought he was way off......and far from his best.

I agree with most of these opionions. Chan never denied the obvious and well known fact that he was not physically and mentally prepared for the Olympics and that he was way off and far from his best. It was a tumultuous year for him, barely 19, with only two competitions that season and all the hype and expection on him, so he crumbled. But his worst performance was still better than most. (It always amuses me how Phaneuf's 5th place was lauded excitedly while Chan's 5th was considered a complete failure.)

As far as placements go, the judging was done by the stipulations of the system. I found it interesting that Tony Wheeler, a blogger who is not a fan of Chan and felt him underserving, decided to score the Olympics performances himself by COP and surprised himself with similar scores and placement for Patrick. Rules of the game. And they were not hidden or in secret codes. You want to be in the game, work with it and try to excell and triumph even with all the restrictions, or you find another game and another playground.

 

[gkelly]

If we go back to the ice in Vancouver Johnny's skating was not only about image. Basically it was not just more creative than Patrick and Stephane but was executed better.

Granting the advantage to Weir in terms of execution, in what ways did you think he was more creative?

 

[Violet Bliss]

Another difference between Weir and Chan: Patrick's Olympic disapointment was believably greater than Johnny's. But he never blamed anybody or offered excuses, or gripped about the medalists. Instead he looked at himself and used the experience. The disappointment became a pivot in his skating career and propelled him to be one of the greats and got him into history and the Guiness book the next year. A true champion.