- Joined
- Jul 11, 2003
Did I not read this somewhere? It's a wonderful idea, and having Patrick be a part of it makes for a good show. All the top boys should enter this comp.
Patrick Chan in a Jumping Competition
- Thread starter Joesitz (RIP)
- Start date
- Joined
- Nov 19, 2010
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FIysoxy5I4g
Good to see him not just gliding down the rink even when it's strictly a jump competition.
It was just a club competition and Bradley didn't compete after all. Chan did 2 beautiful 3As, a 3F/1/2L/3F, a fall on a 4T and the 4T in the video. Max Aaron did a 4S. I hope someone will upload a video of that soon.
Some people probably wish to replace the Men's event with the Jump competition, specifically a quad jump competition. Who needs all the other sissy skating and lame elements and girls' jumps? Sheesh.
eta. Ooops. It's a 3F combo. Thank you for pointing it out, syoutenga. I posted in a hurry while in the middle of indulging in some Sandhu's videos.
Good to see him not just gliding down the rink even when it's strictly a jump competition.
It was just a club competition and Bradley didn't compete after all. Chan did 2 beautiful 3As, a 3F/1/2L/3F, a fall on a 4T and the 4T in the video. Max Aaron did a 4S. I hope someone will upload a video of that soon.
Some people probably wish to replace the Men's event with the Jump competition, specifically a quad jump competition. Who needs all the other sissy skating and lame elements and girls' jumps? Sheesh.
eta. Ooops. It's a 3F combo. Thank you for pointing it out, syoutenga. I posted in a hurry while in the middle of indulging in some Sandhu's videos.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Oct 20, 2010
Maybe it was a typo, but Patrick has been saying he's going to try to add 4S and either 4LZ or 4F this season for quite some time now, so I'd assume it's accurate. The flip is easily his best jump, I don't have any trouble believing he could pull off a quad in practice at the very least, and as for the 1/2LO-3F part, he was doing a 3F out of absolutely nothing in his LP all last season. 4F-1/2LO-3F actually makes a lot of sense for him to try as a combination, based on what his jump layout was this past season, and how the Zayak rule works. Gachinski's been doing 4F in practice, and Adam Rippon's doing 4LZ. If last season was the rebirth of the quad, this season looks like it will be the rise of the multi-quad/quads-harder-than-4S.
- Joined
- Nov 19, 2010
doubleflutz, it was my typo which I've corrected since syoutenga pointed it out.
But I find what you brought up interesting. Despite what some allege in another thread that Lysacek's return to competition would be the demise of the quads, the clear trend is more quads, both in numbers and in variety. I believe Chan is practising a 4F but he has said he will put it in a program only if he can maintain the PCS with it. He is not about to sacrifice the skating for a new quad. I however will not be surprised if he debuts a 4F this coming season. It's likely going to be a race between him and Takahashi for the record book. A few other skaters are doing various quads in practice but doing them successfully in competitions is another story all together.
Yes, that half loop permitted in a combo surely opens up a whole lot of different jump combos to the skaters. I'm surprised Chan has been the only one taking advantage of this new rule, but I'm pretty sure some others will be catching on. If Chan progresses the way he did last season, we may be treated to multi-quads and possibly multi-quad-combos in his program(s) by the end of the coming season.
But I find what you brought up interesting. Despite what some allege in another thread that Lysacek's return to competition would be the demise of the quads, the clear trend is more quads, both in numbers and in variety. I believe Chan is practising a 4F but he has said he will put it in a program only if he can maintain the PCS with it. He is not about to sacrifice the skating for a new quad. I however will not be surprised if he debuts a 4F this coming season. It's likely going to be a race between him and Takahashi for the record book. A few other skaters are doing various quads in practice but doing them successfully in competitions is another story all together.
Yes, that half loop permitted in a combo surely opens up a whole lot of different jump combos to the skaters. I'm surprised Chan has been the only one taking advantage of this new rule, but I'm pretty sure some others will be catching on. If Chan progresses the way he did last season, we may be treated to multi-quads and possibly multi-quad-combos in his program(s) by the end of the coming season.
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2003
Agree!! A competition of the Technical aspects of skating instead of that dumb short program would give the sportsfan a more concise look at the elements. Judging artistry can remain in the long program.
Patrick, btw, did one beautiful 4T. On a scale of 1-10, I would give him a 9.9.
Unofficial Results for 2011 Broadmoor Open Senior Men’s Jumps event (8 competed; 6.0 judging/majority ordinal system):
P Chan 5/1 (3A, 3A, 3F-half loop-3F, 4T fall, 4T), M Aaron 3/2 (3A, 3Lz-half loop-3S, 4S at end), P Parkinson 5/3 (2 3A, 3Lz+3T+3Lo), A Johnson 3/4, T Dolensky 5/5, B Mroz 5/6, T Koleto 5/7, D Wang 5/8.
P Chan 5/1 (3A, 3A, 3F-half loop-3F, 4T fall, 4T), M Aaron 3/2 (3A, 3Lz-half loop-3S, 4S at end), P Parkinson 5/3 (2 3A, 3Lz+3T+3Lo), A Johnson 3/4, T Dolensky 5/5, B Mroz 5/6, T Koleto 5/7, D Wang 5/8.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Nov 19, 2010
Sylvia, should Parkinson's result be 5/3?
Thanks to both of you. I was shocked as I always believed Takahashi shall be the first man to land a 4F in competition
This ID of mine is a personal gift from Takahashi But I do believe nobody could stop Chan now........
- Joined
- Nov 19, 2010
Here is a frame by frame of Chan's 4T at Worlds 2011.
As can be seen from the background, his jump direction is to the left whereas the frames are from left to right because most people's eyes are trained to "read" in the direction of sentences in most languages.
As can be seen from the background, his jump direction is to the left whereas the frames are from left to right because most people's eyes are trained to "read" in the direction of sentences in most languages.
- Joined
- Dec 28, 2006
doing a 3 flip out of a half loop sounds odd. I remember trying this when I was younge with a single or a double flip because it was my best jump but all my coaches emphasized how it would be awkward to actually do this properly as the half loop leaves you on a curving inside edge, perfect for a salchow entry but less so for a flip which is entered from a longer and flatter edge.
- Joined
- Jun 3, 2009
Didn't Plushenko do a 3A-half loop-3F in SLC?
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2003
^^^
In days of olds when knights were bold, there was a lot of half-loops to salchows including those by Irina Slutskaya. After all a flip is a salchow with a toe-off.
In days of olds when knights were bold, there was a lot of half-loops to salchows including those by Irina Slutskaya. After all a flip is a salchow with a toe-off.
- Joined
- Sep 14, 2008
- Country
-
Great sentence! :thumbsup:
Doing a half-loop into a 3Flip is way harder than half-loop into 3Sal, to about the same degree as a 3Loop at the end of a combo is way harder than a 3Toe at the end of a combo. The Salchow generates spring from the blade turning on the ice (which you can get after landing the half loop), whereas with the Flip you need more speed going directly into it and you also don't want the foot to turn as much on the ice; that's not something you get from the landing of a half loop.
Since the half-loop drains your speed and is forcing the foot to move on the ice in a different manner than you'd normally do a Flip, you need to have great ability to somewhat halt that landing edge, then spring into the air from near standstill, then have a very tight rotation to get around far enough after going in without much momentum (plus the ability to land correctly after throwing yourself into the jump like that). No surprise that Plushenko is the only person who attempted such a combination in competition. He had that cat-like ability to quickly spring into the air, rotate very quickly, and still land even if he's tilted.
- Joined
- Jun 3, 2008
especially if you do a 3axel before it
I love this combo, much more than any quad combos or anything, this is very cool to see.
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2003
That depends on the individual. Some skaters have troubles with edge jumps. The purpose of changing a salchow into a flip is by using a toe-off. It keeps the salchow from prerotating. I'm not so sure judges actually see a strong back inside edge for both the salchow and the flip. I'm sure many skaters take off on the flat of the blade for the flip. If you remember the first time you put on skates, the flat or no edge was the safest way to go. Do you think the Tech Panel sees flat skating elements?
- Joined
- Oct 22, 2005
BoP means that the 1/2 loop landing tends to come around which makes a Salchow MUCH easier than a flip to do out of the landing. Bringing the back inside edge deep before a flip is usually a recipe for disaster (most entries are almost flat) because the skater will be not straight in the air. For a Salchow, that is what creates the rotation.
- Joined
- Jul 28, 2003
- Country
-
seniorita said:
Seniorita, didn't Evgeni do some amazing combo in his 2001 skate when he won Worlds??? ...or am I dreaming???
BTW, years ago they used to have a competition called Top Jump. It was amazing. Guess who won it.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2003
Senior skaters should have mastered all the elements by definitions. There should be no partial credit for an unsuccessful attempt. Attemps belong in Novice. There is a difference between Senior and Novice. NO? Judge the elements separately and leave the artistry for the long program. By judging the elements separately we will have real Sport in stead of that mini LP called short program.
The crowd at Broadmore was interested in the jumping sans musique.
The crowd at Broadmore was interested in the jumping sans musique.
- Joined
- Jun 3, 2008
Seniorita, didn't Evgeni do some amazing combo in his 2001 skate when he won Worlds??? ...or am I dreaming???
for a moment or two, you caught me,
my mind paused, i was thinking what combo did he do and i dont remember it? It s been 10 years now you know, I m growing older too I guess you mean 4t-3t-2l?who, Dick Button?BTW, years ago they used to have a competition called Top Jump. It was amazing. Guess who won it.
