I don't know how you mean by "long careers", but ladies world champs were all very young from like seven decades ago. You know well f'rinstance how young Carol Heiss was when she retired, just to name one. The only exceptions are Maria and Irina's last one, AFAIK.
Biggest Skating Busts of the 2000s
- Thread starter Reginald
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- Nov 19, 2010
I was talking about pre jumps, especially pre-triple jumps, skating era. There used to be many multi year Ladies World Champions, who didn't retire as teenagers.
First Ladies champ Madge Syers was 24 when she won in 1906, after winning silver against Men which caused the ISU to create the Ladies discipline. She won twice. Lily Kronberger became 4 times WC (with few competitors) since 17. Opika von Méray Horváth won 3 times from age 22. Other notables include Herma Szabo (20), 5 times WC and a silver after; Sonja Henie(14), 10 times WC plus the silver before; 5 X WC Carol Heiss beginning at 17; 3XWC Sjoukje Dijkstra (20); and 3XWC Peggy Fleming (18). Since 1972, the only Ladies with more than 2 WC are Katarina Witt, 4 times since 18, and 5XWC Michelle Kwan from 15 to 22 yr old.
The multiple World Champions have been post puberty achievers. Those who peak too early or late don't have longevity. 17 - 20 seems the optimal age to begin a long reign. Henie and Kwan were the youngest multiple WCs (more than twice) and more of the exceptions. Asada and Kim are both candidates to win such honour, an accomplishment made difficult for the fact that they are competing against each other.
Source: Wikipedia
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That's a good analysis, SF. Your phrase "post-puberty achievers" is especially significant. If you look at photos of the winners from earlier years, they weren't sylphs. Maybe they were small in terms of height--I'm guessing 5'2" to 5'4" or so, but I think the average non-skating lady was shorter in those days as well.
But the skaters of those years were not wispy. They were slender but of pretty normal build, with a bit of curve to them. The ones I remember stats about, Peggy Fleming (three WC's and an OGM) and Dorothy Hamill (one WC, one OGM) were 5'4" and 5'3" respectively, and both weighed around 110 pounds. This was about par for a slender teenager or young adult of that time. In other words, the idea of a "puberty monster" did not apply. I believe Hamill was the last lady to win the Olympics with no triples.
I'm not asking for a return to the good old days. Never going to happen. But I am sorry that, as with gymnastics, a certain type of body rather than a certain type of training often makes for the top performers in the field. Don't get me wrong: I love sylphs too. But I'm always happy when someone with "the wrong shape"--too tall, too much hip, sturdy muscles--rises to the top. Hey, I'd love for Rachael Flatt to mow down the opposition one season for just that reason. I guess it's the rebel in me.
But the skaters of those years were not wispy. They were slender but of pretty normal build, with a bit of curve to them. The ones I remember stats about, Peggy Fleming (three WC's and an OGM) and Dorothy Hamill (one WC, one OGM) were 5'4" and 5'3" respectively, and both weighed around 110 pounds. This was about par for a slender teenager or young adult of that time. In other words, the idea of a "puberty monster" did not apply. I believe Hamill was the last lady to win the Olympics with no triples.
I'm not asking for a return to the good old days. Never going to happen. But I am sorry that, as with gymnastics, a certain type of body rather than a certain type of training often makes for the top performers in the field. Don't get me wrong: I love sylphs too. But I'm always happy when someone with "the wrong shape"--too tall, too much hip, sturdy muscles--rises to the top. Hey, I'd love for Rachael Flatt to mow down the opposition one season for just that reason. I guess it's the rebel in me.
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Well we all have the same statistics and I still think it goes to show that there's not much difference between the double jump era and the triple jump era concerning age. (I wouldn't go that way back as Syers, too much difference in the format.)
If you call double jump era champs "grown ups" then triple jump era champs are just as "grown ups" in comparison.
I think what you say about being trained early with wrong techniques is correct in that it eventually lets the skater down.
But being trained early in itself isn't the reason of resulting in "busts", as I see.
If a girl starts jump training after the puberty, pretty likely she's too late to go into competition.
Puberty is a big obstacle I imagine but that's true both for those who succeed and for those who don't.
I don't see the reason Kimmie didn't keep winning as a "result of puberty".
Of course you can still say Mao was lucky and Elene wasn't, but the two are too exceptional to put into comparison, IMO.
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- Jul 26, 2003
AFAIR, Kimmie had a lot of injuries, one after the other.
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- Jun 3, 2009
Agreed. There's something thrilling about Shizuka Arakawa winning as an actual adult, and about the progress we've seen from Csizny and Rochette older in their careers as well.
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- Nov 19, 2010
And Shen/Zhao winning their OGM in their thirties. And Phaneuf taking years to battle her physical growth and eventual stature to win back her Canadian crown and have respectable international showings. I also like that the Chinese female Pairs skaters are quite tall.
Unfortunately, physique does have a great say on which sport one may excel in while limiting achievements in others. Most suitable body types also evolve with the sports. For today's female skaters, ability to achieve jumping height and to rotate quickly, as well as flexibility, are of utmost importance. Being plump is more than about esthetics. One can't be very "bendy" with extra padding. And it's a drag to try to propel extra weight into the air.
It also helps to look good with tightly pulled back hair.
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- Dec 28, 2006
True. But i think most of them were caused at least in part to trying to do things her body wasn't capable of anymore and maybe pushing herself too hard.
I think lots of people (myself included, I admit) began to overrate her after her world championship win. Obviously that was never going to happen again but in retrospect...she was more of a Rachel Flatt than a Sasha Cohen- not in terms of style, but in terms of potential. She won the WC in an incredibly weak field, maxed out like Rachel maxed out and she was going to be ~6th at best (even at full health) in the current field. Basically, once Kwan/Cohen left, we were going to be in trouble anyway because Meissner and Hughes didn't have any more potential than our current group of ladies and wouldn't have fared any better. The two of them couldn't have picked a better time to peak.
It's more physics related than looks related I feel. If you're taller, your center of gravity is higher...and if you're heavier, there is more pressure/more weight on the landing leg (and more strength is required to launch into the air). So just looking at it from a scientific standpoint, yes, there is an ideal "body type" for skating. In practice, while most top skaters have this "body type", there have been notable exceptions. Now, I guess the question would be if there's discrimination in play amongst the judges in favor of a certain body type- I would hope not.
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- Jun 18, 2011
I agree with several of the posters who thought Kimmie Meissner appeared to be poised to be the next great American champion. Her win at the 2006 Worlds was "awesome", as she herself stated. She seemed to be such a sweet, nice young lady - very competitive - and I thought she was on her way to winning US titles, a few more Worlds, and possibly an Olympic gold medal. IMHO, she appeared to have grown and/or gained weight, and that affected her training. It was sad to see her disappear from the competitive scene. I did see her in an exhibition number a year or so ago, and she skated well, but at a much lower technical level.
Another skater I thought might have enjoyed a long run was Sarah Hughes, whose surprising and well-deserved victory at Salt Lake City in 2002 thrust her into the spotlight. Her skating never was quite the same - too many distractions - television specials, tours, and her college education. She was interviewed by a local New York television station during the Vancouver Olympics, and she was very friendly, happy, and charming. She's obviously happy where she is, and that's what matters.
Another skater I thought might have enjoyed a long run was Sarah Hughes, whose surprising and well-deserved victory at Salt Lake City in 2002 thrust her into the spotlight. Her skating never was quite the same - too many distractions - television specials, tours, and her college education. She was interviewed by a local New York television station during the Vancouver Olympics, and she was very friendly, happy, and charming. She's obviously happy where she is, and that's what matters.
