- Joined
- Mar 24, 2010
I didn't read it that way.
Just becuase you are stong does not mean you are a great skater. Being strong physically and being a strong skaters are two different things.
2011-2012 Program Stuff
- Thread starter ImaginaryPogue
- Start date
I didn't read it that way.
Just becuase you are stong does not mean you are a great skater. Being strong physically and being a strong skaters are two different things.
- Joined
- Aug 26, 2010
Where did you get that "stop-growing-at-25" statement from? According to Wikipedia, "On average, female growth velocity trails off to zero at about 15 or 16 years, whereas the male curve continues for approximately 3 more years, going to zero at about 18-20". Her delay for growth is a mouth-gaping 10-year difference (her age 26 - average 16 for female = 10). Is there any research study supporting your theory that intensive practice in figure skating may contribute to SIGNIFICANT delay (10 years) of growth? She may be an "exception" (outside 2 standard deviations from the statistical point of view) or arguably "abnormal". A medical exam and explanation shall be provided to ensure that no artificial factor (e.g., hormonal supplements) has been involved. And it is very FAIR to raise such concern: First of all, it is statistically abnormal. Secondly, it is a legitimate concern for her health (e.g., brain tumor). Anyway, she needs to see a doctor if she is still growing taller.
Last edited:
- Joined
- May 21, 2009
1. Is WIKIpedia a good resource to explain bio science?
2. Growth might be different for difference race, dunno if the example you made is for generic? or for caucasians only.. for asian, male can grow till 25 years old, female may be 20 or 22. but there was one girl in my class, she was still growing when she was 24
3. I dont see any benefits for this pair if she continues growing, Im sure they have consulted doctor as the coach was talking about this issue in many interviews
- Joined
- May 21, 2009
Thanks SkateFiguring, yes I meant Z/Z needed good music and choreography, and lori's choice for them this season suits them well.
mousepotato,
1. Of course they didn't beat K/S in 09~10 season, K/S was the russian's #1 by the time, Z/Z was only the chinese team's #3, didnt get enough support from their fed. before that Z/Z beat K/S even with the boring programs?
2. What I was saying: Z/Z have improved a lot, and they have two presentable programs. this season hasn't started yet, no one knows what the result will be. I didnt say Z/Z will beat who who who... if you did so, that's called prediction. only time will tell the result
- Joined
- Mar 24, 2010
Your fed has nothing to do with it, you are either great skaters with good programs or you’re not. Plenty of #2s have beaten #1s in competition in any country. That's why they continue to compete after they have been beat and not just retire, because you can get to the top again if you are good enough.
K/S were #1 in the 08-09 season yet the Zhangs beat them then (the Zhangs barely beating K/S at worlds in 09 only by 0.13) so how do you account for Z/Z beating a #1 team one season and getting beat the next season? :think:
You honestly think K/S ONLY beat the Zhangs because they were the best team in their country and because the Zhangs couldn't beat P/T or S/Z? K/S had a world record free skate and beat the former World Champions at Euros in 2010 and easily beat the Zhangs at the Olympics and Worlds. That was only because of who was 1st and 3rd and not because of who had the best programs?
If the Chinese nationals score was inflated (like all national scores are) the only scored around 183, which would have put them in 6th place at worlds. Only time will tell if they can move up but it will be an uphill battle, especially after a season off. They will get to the top before the next Olympics if all the other top teams retire before Sochi, because they won’t beat them with those programs.
- Joined
- Nov 19, 2010
How much did Dan supposedly grow? I guess as the tallest female pair skater any increase in height is very noticeable and deemed undesirable.
I don't think it's race related because as far back as I can remember, it has been a general knowledge or assumption that a human male could grow till 25 year of age and it's not rare. It's also quite common for a young female athlete to delay onset of menstruation and to have a growth spurt when intense training is ceased. To grow more in height in a woman's mid twenties is indeed uncommon but may fit in the usual scenario, just delayed. It is not easy to make sense of any drug being involved since such growth or any general bulking is definitely not a desired result for a skater, nor is any enhancing drug "necessary" at all during the year when Dan was not competing.
How tall are Dan's parents? I know such facts are usually taken into consideration at the beginning of a Pairs skater's career.
I don't think it's race related because as far back as I can remember, it has been a general knowledge or assumption that a human male could grow till 25 year of age and it's not rare. It's also quite common for a young female athlete to delay onset of menstruation and to have a growth spurt when intense training is ceased. To grow more in height in a woman's mid twenties is indeed uncommon but may fit in the usual scenario, just delayed. It is not easy to make sense of any drug being involved since such growth or any general bulking is definitely not a desired result for a skater, nor is any enhancing drug "necessary" at all during the year when Dan was not competing.
How tall are Dan's parents? I know such facts are usually taken into consideration at the beginning of a Pairs skater's career.
- Joined
- Aug 26, 2010
If it is not rare, then we shall have no difficulty in naming another skater who also experienced a growth spurt in his/her mid-twenties out of hundreds, if not thousands, of skaters listed in ISU bio.
"A human male could grow till 25 years of age" does not mean "most men would grow till 25". It actually means "It is extremely unlikely, if not nearly impossible under natural circumstances, that a man would still grow after 25". The Growth Chart for Chinese Girls (http://fwcc.org/previous_site/girls_height_hi.htm) shows that on average Chinese girls reach their peak height around 15 to 17 years of age. So Dan's case is a mouth-dropping 10-year delay of growth.
At the age of 26, Dan is no longer young. If it is "quite common", then we shall see a great number of female skaters experiencing a growth spurt in their 20s. I can accept that intense training might have a short-term effect on menstruation, but using it to explain a 10-year disparity seems rather far-fetched for my brain that is suffering a delayed growth.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Aug 26, 2010
Weight control is desirable for figure skaters, and malnutrition (and some drugs as well) has been linked to delayed puberty. You pointed out it was "during the year when Dan was not competing", in other words, when she did not need the "artificial factor" that might have delayed her growth.
Honestly, she needs to get checked out by a doctor to determine if it was pathologic or physiologic delay. Her delay is outside two standard deviations, which is significant enough for an examination (see Traggiai C, Stanhope R (2003). "Disorders of pubertal development". Best Pract Res Clin Obstet Gynaecol 17 (1): 41–56.) Not until a medical evaluation is done can I exclude the possibility of combined factors (wrong birth date + extreme diet + constitutional growth delay) that together might have accounted for her atypical "10-year" delay.
Last edited:
- Joined
- May 21, 2009
Your fed has nothing to do with it, you are either great skaters with good programs or you’re not. Plenty of #2s have beaten #1s in competition in any country. That's why they continue to compete after they have been beat and not just retire, because you can get to the top again if you are good enough.
K/S were #1 in the 08-09 season yet the Zhangs beat them then (the Zhangs barely beating K/S at worlds in 09 only by 0.13) so how do you account for Z/Z beating a #1 team one season and getting beat the next season? :think:
You honestly think K/S ONLY beat the Zhangs because they were the best team in their country and because the Zhangs couldn't beat P/T or S/Z? K/S had a world record free skate and beat the former World Champions at Euros in 2010 and easily beat the Zhangs at the Olympics and Worlds. That was only because of who was 1st and 3rd and not because of who had the best programs?
If the Chinese nationals score was inflated (like all national scores are) the only scored around 183, which would have put them in 6th place at worlds. Only time will tell if they can move up but it will be an uphill battle, especially after a season off. They will get to the top before the next Olympics if all the other top teams retire before Sochi, because they won’t beat them with those programs.
hahaha right, now we know you are a fan of K/S ,,,thats why you have to criticize others and "flaunt" your fav.
"K/S had a world record free skate and beat the former World Champions at Euros in 2010" yes, without the fed's support, even though K/S skated clean in Euro 2011, were still beaten by uncleaned S/S hahahaha...
K/S is just a piracy pair of B/S,,, the bodyline, the music they chose.... Can't see any beauty in their programs,,, most of their programs actually made me laugh,,,, hilarious.. Glad Russian fed makes V/T #1 now,,, at least they have better bodyline,, expression and the understanding of music...
- Joined
- Mar 24, 2010
Yes, I am a fan but I am also of fan of many other skaters, I hardly have to pull skaters down to lift others up especially K/S; their medal record is enough. K/S were "clean" at Euros? What were you watching? Did you not see the last lift? They were okay but they did have errors if you know what to look for. They didn't a high level on the death spiral, her landing on the first throw was shaky and the jumps (for her) were not the best she has done.
I will repeat that you put way too much emphasis on federal support. If K/S had the fed support and was #1 in Russia in 2008, how on earth did M/T beat them at Europeans in 2008? If M/T were backed by the feds as Russia's #1 in 2007, why did it change? Or how did Duhamel and Radford beat Kirsten Moore-Towers and Dylan Moscovitch when MT/T were Canada's #1? You are not giving enough credit to the teams for working hard and winning, be it K/S, V/T or anyone.
Their programs make you laugh? Seriously, what are you watching? They have their problems just like anyone else and I don't see why you claim I put down other teams when you do the same thing? I have nothing against discussions or even disagreements about skaters but back it up with some knowledge about skating, skaters, judging, rules and programs of the past and present.
- Joined
- Mar 24, 2010
- Joined
- Aug 26, 2010
Here is the article where Hao Zhang talks about Dan's growth spurt. Maybe someone who speaks Chinese can translate so we can get an accurate translation. Sometimes Google misses the mark.
张昊说，“一年没参赛，我和小丹一切都要从零开始，现在也不敢说一定会比成什么样。加上小丹又长了个儿，我俩做动作的时候了也不像以前那样轻松了。”上赛季，张丹的身高猛蹿至1米68，成为世界双人滑最高的女选手，“现在她的身高已经达到了1米69.5，都快赶上我了。
Zhang Hao said, "Not having competed for a year, I and Dan have to start everything from zero, so at this point we can't predict our future result. Besides, Dan has grown even taller so much so that we can't longer perform movements with ease as before." Last season, Zhang Dan surged in height to 168cm and became the tallest female pair skater in the world. "And now she has reached 169.5cm, almost catching up with my height," said Hao.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Nov 19, 2010
I don't know what the Zhangs have to worry about. Hao just needs to take whatever Dan takes to stay bigger than she. Problem solved.
- Joined
- Aug 26, 2010
You are so funny!!!!
- Joined
- Jul 26, 2003
Rumor has it that Gilles & Poirier will be using Imagination from Willy Wonka, and Sweet Dreams by the Eurhythmics for their FD.
Kanako Murakami's new SP
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xAXqHZV93hk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xAXqHZV93hk
Alissa's new program at the Japan Open....attempted 7 triples in this program...glad to see her trying to up her difficulty to remain competitive....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=baXsIoWx9EM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=baXsIoWx9EM
- Joined
- Jul 26, 2003
Alessandrini & Vaturi (ITA) finished second to Zhiganshina & Gaszi at Nepala. Here's what they skated to:
Lorenza Alessandrini & Simone Vaturi ITA
SD Mas Que Nada, and some other songs
FD Tosca by Puccini
It's good to see them back on the ice.
Lorenza Alessandrini & Simone Vaturi ITA
SD Mas Que Nada, and some other songs
FD Tosca by Puccini
It's good to see them back on the ice.
- Joined
- Jul 26, 2003
From the Japan Open, Miki Ando's LP is Passion.
Then her SP is Black Swan.
However, her ISU bio is not updated? Does anyone know whether that is her set of programs for this season for sure?
Then her SP is Black Swan.
However, her ISU bio is not updated? Does anyone know whether that is her set of programs for this season for sure?
