2011-2012 Program Stuff

[Violet Bliss]

" Ooooh, can you tell us judges' conversations at piano competitions? "

Piano Competitions ? Really, SkateFiguring. I only talk about my own experiences from the many Dance Competitions I have judged. I have met and spoken with many figuring skating coaches over the years, as they will often attend the Dance Conventions where I am one of the speakers. They often attend the section on what makes a great soloist. They ask me about Music, Costumes, Make Up, Program Pacing, as well as diet and weight loss secrets.

I'm surprised you'd compare my dance experience with that of a music judge. Or was that a Joke ?

Sorry Your Honour, I wasn't thinking about your experiences at all. Just trying to imagine what piano competition judges talk about, what with the same compositions being played at every competition year in year out. *Yawns*

But since you wanted me to get serious, I thought about your original post:

Well, most competing skaters aren't on an International Panel and believe me when I say " It is very likely that at least HALF, if not more, of the judges on an international panel.... Have lived for 4 decades or more "

I have always admired Lori as she is one of, if not the most, musical choreographers in skating. However, ( Speaking for Myself ) It is unrealistic for any skater who uses a " Work Horse " cut of music, not to think they're taking a risk. I think Lori knows and understands completely how badly things could turn out. Lori is a smart woman and Patrick has a ton of talent so, what could possibly go wrong ?

I've heard this type of conversation between judges hundreds, that's right, hundreds of times. { Not about Patrick or Lori }

Judge # 1

" What on earth is Lori doing having Patrick skate to that old Kwan Music ? " " What's it called ? " " Anarama ?? "
" I can't remember. " " All I know is, I was sick of it when Michelle did it and when was that ? 2003 ? " " Ugh... "

Judge # 2

" Well, you know Lori, I'm sure she's thinks Patrick can tell a different story than Kwan and I'm really looking forward to it. "

Judge # 1

" Look ! " " He could set himself on FIRE and I still won't buy it ! " " He's the World Champion and I don't think it's too much to ask for something original "

Judge # 2

" Are you kidding ? " " Name 5 original music cuts by the winner at worlds. " Judge # 1 :think: Judge # 2
" Exactly "

The fact is, judges talk. I hear it at EVERY competition and I've been a Head Judge for almost a decade. As you can see, you never know who'll be on the panel, or which of the above Judges will fall on Patrick's panel. The only thing a skater can control, is how they skate.

Backhand

and now I feel sorry for Patrick. If only he and Lori didn't take such risk, and would use original music like, er, Andrian Schultheise, he might have broken through 300 points at last Worlds! I'm not sure where the judges would have allocated the additional points though, seeing there is no "Music Selection" as a Program Component. Extra GOE for his quads? 11 points for Performance/Execution? What do I know? I am not a judge. I can't name any original music cut by winners at Worlds at all. *Hangs head in shame*

 

[fscric]

I feel for the skaters who are not as good as Patrick (and the other elite skaters) who also use 'overused' music, can you imagine what their scores would be if that's the mindset of all skating judges!

 

[Buttercup]

I have always admired Lori as she is one of, if not the most, musical choreographers in skating. However, ( Speaking for Myself ) It is unrealistic for any skater who uses a " Work Horse " cut of music, not to think they're taking a risk. I think Lori knows and understands completely how badly things could turn out. Lori is a smart woman and Patrick has a ton of talent so, what could possibly go wrong ?

Judge # 2

" Are you kidding ? " " Name 5 original music cuts by the winner at worlds. " Judge # 1 :think: Judge # 2
" Exactly "

The fact is, judges talk. I hear it at EVERY competition and I've been a Head Judge for almost a decade. As you can see, you never know who'll be on the panel, or which of the above Judges will fall on Patrick's panel. The only thing a skater can control, is how they skate.

I don't know about the judges, but I can name five original music choices by World champions Just men in the past decade, to make it fair and relevant:
Evgeny Plushenko, St. Petersburg 300, 2003
Stephane Lambiel, King Arthur, 2005; was Drallion in 2006 original?
Brian Joubert, Apocalypta plays Metalica, 2007 (original at the time, I think)
Jeffrey Buttle, Ararat, 2008
Daisuke Takahashi, Eye by Coba, 2010

I will allow that some skaters can take workhorses and put their own mark on them (Stephane Lambiel, for instance). But there are so many great pieces of music out there, why go for the ones that have been used a million times already? I prefer skaters to be more involved in music selection and to think outside the box, at least on occasion. And I know even Ms. Nichol is capable of interesting music choices, considering her early work with Kwan as well as some of her more recent efforts, such as a few of Carolina Kostner's programs.

 

[backhand45]

" Sorry Your Honour, "

Your honor ! Thanks skatefiguring sweetie, you're a real dear.

backhand

 

[dorispulaski]

The programs by discipline thread has been updated for JGP Poland entries.

Some of the ice dancers are using interesting music.

 

[DianaSelene]

Thanks , DS and Pogue..

Well, this is such an improvement over the choreography Mishin's students usually display, (not to mention the music cut) that if Lambiel is the one new element around Gachinski , then he deserves a major share of the credit. I have hopes that we'll see a major spurt of evolution in Russian men's choreography going forward if Artur has a successful season.. Heck , in this program , I can even manage not to be annoyed by the now ubiquitous Russian gloves ( but not in every case)

I just read that apparently both of Gachinski's programs were choreographed by Tom Dickson.

 

[Blades of Passion]

I always look forward to Tom Dickson programs. A real artist.

 

[evangeline]

I'm glad that Mishin is getting over his "just get the jumps done" mindset towards skating programs.

 

[demarinis5]

Diana Selene .. you had posted a link to a bunch of programs on the Russian Test Skates thread ,but this was sort of buried among so many, I've just found it now ..

http://www.youtube.com/user/mihsersh#p/u/61/6cSXro8_FDg

My goodness, this is such an improvement from his last years programs..much more worthy of his capabilities. There are some really nice choreographic touches.( I hope his costume won't be too fussy ) I'll be looking forward to seeing it when it's more competition ready.

I'm curious, though..someone on FSU was saying " Thanks, Stephane." in commenting on the program. Does this mean we have Lambiel to thank for this wonderful choreographic transformation ? I can believe it of some of those little accent jumps and positions.This is one vampire-ish program that won't have me taking a fridge break.

My thoughts exacty. Gachinski has developed a smoothness in his skating that was not there last season. Much improved. I also hope he keeps his
costume simple, but we shall see this is figure skating after all. lol.

 

[LuCN]

if the "original" music means music as Brian's new SP,I'd rather choose the "overused" ones ╮(╯_╰)╭

and Tom Dickson seems work with Mishin's students for years,but never see a good pro....

 

[shine]

and Tom Dickson seems work with Mishin's students for years,but never see a good pro....

That is very interesting. I have not heard of this before. Dickson and the Mishin school of skating seem to be on the opposite ends of the spectrum in terms of presentation. So which Mishin students has Dickson worked with?

I just absolutely adore Dickson as a choreographer and especially loved his work with Savoie and Abbott. I was so impressed with the interview that Manleywoman from FSU did with him a while back.

 

[DianaSelene]

That is very interesting. I have not heard of this before. Dickson and the Mishin school of skating seem to be on the opposite ends of the spectrum in terms of presentation. So which Mishin students has Dickson worked with?

From what I understand, he had choreographed programs only for Tuktamysheva before. I might be wrong, but I think he did Tuktamysheva's Memoirs of a Geisha program.

 

[Blades of Passion]

Tom Dickson seems work with Mishin's students for years,but never see a good pro....

Probably because Mishin breaks the programs down from what they were intended to be. I found both of the Russian Men to have good Long Programs at 2009 Worlds, though. You also have to consider that the skaters themselves are often paying much more attention to the technical aspects of the program.

 

[LuCN]

I love TomD's work with Abbott too.I think I've read TD worked with Mishin and joined his camps somewhere~but I searched but can't find articals just now,maybe I'm misremember...

oh~great choreographers need a program list too...

 

[colleen o'neill]

Last year , you could see Gachinski had a natural sense of movement,that was not being developed or taken advantage of. I felt a bit upset thinking "Here's another one that will always make me feel robbed because they won't be encouraged to grow, so we'll never see the full potential realized." Now, I'm excited.

So Kudos to Mishin for stepping outside the box, Kudos to Dickson for the choreography, and Kudos to Lambiel for bringing out the fluidity.

 

[shine]

Holy sh*t! I didn't believe this could happen, but that's an AMAZING LP from Gatchinsky!!! The choreography is genius. And it seems like he actually gets it, feels it, and is doing it real justice. I didn't believe there could be subtlety and attention to details with a Mishin skater. So much respect for him and all the people that have helped make this happen. That is one inspiring piece of choreography!! Here's hoping the program will stay intact for the rest of the season.

 

[ayayukiituka]

Mao's new SP to Scheherazade from Japanese newspaper.
She's eager to create her own world on it.

 

[LuCN]

just find one of the articles about Tom Dickson work with Mishin and Gachinsky

http://figureskating.about.com/od/topskatingcoaches/p/dickson.htm

In 2008, at the request of Olympic Coach Alexei Mishin, he went to Florida and worked with some of Mishin's top talent including Andrei Lutai, Katarina Gerboldt, and Arthur Gachinsky. Tom says it was great to stay with Mishin and his students in a beach house and enjoy being creative at the same time..

the artical only write about things before 2008, so I assume they may have cooperated after that

 

[shine]

Thanks LuCN, that is very interesting! And even more interesting that the effect of his work has not shown itself until Gatchinsky's LP this season! I just can't get over how good it is

 

[LuCN]

Zhang/Zhang performed their new competition programs (both choreographed by Lori) on China nations this week,here's the fan video,thanks to the uploader:

SP:http://www.tudou.com/programs/view/LpeftUjW5vg/
LP:http://www.tudou.com/programs/view/124mUQ3MPmw/