Lysacek out of Grand Prix; at odds with USFS

[Violet Bliss]

My country had this figure skating craze after the adoption of COP, so TVs and magazines explain the rules and the technical aspects rather often. Not only by the commentaters in actual games but in promotion/fluff programs as well.
Such technicalities are indeed sort of "enjoyed" here in general, but as I see, not so much the PCS.

So I'm not sure if it helps the popularity of figure skating to ditch COP ... well maybe the PCS should be overhauled.

Maybe the PCS should be explained as well.

I do find there is more explanation of the scoring in other countries than in the US.

 

[Mathman]

On the subject of educating the public about the scoring system, you cannot teach a person something that he or she is not interested in learning.

To me, the most telling part of Hersh's article is this:

For the big earners, the bulk of the money was appearance fees to guarantee they skated on ABC shows like Skate America and the pro-ams U.S. Figure Skating once ran.

In those days, not so very long ago, Skate America was a big television extravaganza. OK, it wasn't the Super Bowl, but it had in common with the Super Bowl the feature of being half carnival, half sporting event. In its conception, Skate America was a big whoop-de-do about, hot dawg! the new skating season has arrived, and here are the big-time stars that you will see going for the gold at Nationals and the Olympics.

The appeal of figure skating has always been that half ice carnival, half sports dichotomy. IMHO the ISU has taken the wind out of the sails of the carnival half. This pleases the serious skating insider.

What were those Skate America attendance figures again?

 

[Violet Bliss]

Carnival? Skate Canada's no frill K&C has been duely noted by many here.

Education and math too much for the public? Isn't baseball all about numbers? And fans of other sports can reel off all the stats and speculative calculations and projections with the best of them. When people are enthusiastic about something, the more data the better it is to debate with.

 

[Mathman]

Carnival? Skate Canada's no frill K&C has been duely noted by many here.

That is my point. The carnival has been taken out of it, in my opinion to the detriment of the event.

Education and math too much for the public? Isn't baseball all about numbers? And fans of other sports can reel off all the stats and speculative calculations and projections with the best of them. When people are enthusiastic about something, the more data the better it is to debate with.

For some reason that has never been the case with figure skating in the U.S., even at the height of its popularity.

People were enthusiastic about Janet Lynn because of the emotional and esthetic impact of her performances, not because her batting average was .346 instead of .345.

 

[Violet Bliss]

That is my point. The carnival has been taken out of it, in my opinion to the detriment of the event.

My point is Skate Canada is well attended. So are Canadian Nationals.

Different cultures? Different marketings? Different educations?

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

Carnival? Skate Canada's no frill K&C has been duely noted by many here.

Education and math too much for the public? Isn't baseball all about numbers? And fans of other sports can reel off all the stats and speculative calculations and projections with the best of them. When people are enthusiastic about something, the more data the better it is to debate with.

Not trying to stir the gender stereotype pot here (I'm a woman), but complex math isn't what makes a sport interesting for me. "Man" sports like baseball, football or basketball are stats heavy but enjoyment of the sport isn't based a lot on aesthetics. The whole appeal of figure skating for the casual fan is being drawn in to a program, so I can imagine it's frustrating when someone watched a difficult but visually unappealing number win over a clean, beautifully choreographed one.

 

[Mathman]

My point is Skate Canada is well attended. So are Canadian Nationals.

Different cultures? Different marketings? Different educations?

Oh. OK.

Maybe the United States is out of step with the rest of the world. I don't think the problem is just the lack of a top lady star, though. Even while Michelle Kwan was still competing, the handwriting was on the wall about the future popularity of skating in the U.S.

I do think that, in the ISU's deliberations, the audience is the forgotten piece of the puzzle. To be successful you have to find out what the audience wants and then give it to them. To me, the ISU's point of view is to give the audience what the ISU wants and then retroactively make them like it.

Look how many exchanges there are on threads like this that go as follows:

"I don't like the CoP."

"Yes you do, because the CoP has this, that and the other desirable property."

 

[Violet Bliss]

Aren't most COP haters from the US? Especially the older fans? Old commentators and older skaters who couldn't or wouldn't adapt don't help either.

Countries that accept the new scoring system don't seem to be losing fans like in the US. Maybe embracing the system produces more winning and/or promising skaters which in turn increases the fandom, in scope and in enthusiasm.

eta. I haven't found 6.0 vs CoP a hot issue in non US based forums.

 

[Olympia]

Not trying to stir the gender stereotype pot here (I'm a woman), but complex math isn't what makes a sport interesting for me. "Man" sports like baseball, football or basketball are stats heavy but enjoyment of the sport isn't based a lot on aesthetics. The whole appeal of figure skating for the casual fan is being drawn in to a program, so I can imagine it's frustrating when someone watched a difficult but visually unappealing number win over a clean, beautifully choreographed one.

I have to say I react to skating this way, too. I'm pleased that so many people enjoy the math, and I'm interested to hear the discussions about it here. But if I were in it for the math, I'd love Katarina Witt (two Olympic golds) and be cooler toward Janet Lynn or Yuka Sato. Not the way it is!

 

[Tonichelle]

there is beauty in every sport... I get a tingle of awe in a beautiful pass by a QB to his RB... or a fantastic stop/tackle... Watching 16 dogs run as one team through an amazingly difficult terrain... my dad gets all excited for an amazing baseball play or basketball shot...

they don't use music, but they still have a finesse and a line and a perfection about them... skatings not incredibly unique in that, even now with the CoP supposedly taking the art out of the sport...

 

[skateluvr]

Haven't read this thread and not likely to, but Evan should have competed, it was over money period. If he's here for right reasons, he should have showed at Skate America. USFSA needs him. Skating needs him. I love his feirce competitiveness and was looking forward to seeing him with 1 quad per program. that's all.

 

[sorcerer]

...but Evan should have competed, it was over money period. If he's here for right reasons, he should have showed at Skate America....

1.
Evan brought up this reason for withdrawing being "not reaching agreement".
My thoughts: Being on the assignment list means he/she agreed to compete. Any good sport would say so. But what Evan did, for the first time in the recent FSing scene AFAIK, was to use the status of being assigned as means to negotiate something (financial according to Hersh's article) by threatning to pull out. I don't find this attitude sportsman-like, and I was surprised and disappointed to know this.

2.
Evan hasn't disclosed what it was that didn't reach agreement, USFSA confessed it was something finacial (according to Hersh), and it was Herch who brought up this "appearance fee" thing.
My thoughts: Since such "appearance fee" seems (to me) to have been a component of the yearly support from the USFSA to the big-name skaters in Kwan's era, to state that such a fee custom was characteristic (in the good old 6.0 days) to the ISU competitions held in USA may well be inaccurate.
I've confirmed that such fee doesn't exist and never existed in my country, and I've also read posts in GS and in FSU, of those who are surprized by and against such fee ... that would potentially spoil the internal equal-ground of each competition. I suppose and hope that in most (if not all) countries there are no such fee customs.
I'd wish that the both parties here come out to deny such fee as the element of the alleged "financial disagreement". If it was that the USFSA rejected such a fee demand that indeed was asked, well good for them to reject it.
At this point, it seems already meaningless for the USFSA to keep silence about it, even for the skaters (including Evan) the federation looks after.

 

[Mathman]

Aren't most COP haters from the US?

I don't think anyone hates the CoP. Or loves it. The problem is...well, I don't know what the problem is.

Especially the older fans?

You got me there. Barbara Ann Scott! What a pretty girl! All down hill from there.

 

[pangtongfan]

Evan should just re-retire before making things worse. He has a small window to make as much money as he can. To give that up for a futile return to amateur competition, when he has already won the big titles and has no hope of adding anymore is beyond any comprehension or rational. His image has already taken a hit, best to leave any silly ideas of a return to amateur competition behind now and return to his full time Stars on Ice role while he still can (before he is either replaced by a newer star or the tour goes bankrupt and he has to beg for touring roles in Asia and Europe where he is nowhere near in demand).

 

[Bluebonnet]

Where is Lysacek's twitter?

 

[Dragonlady]

Aren't most COP haters from the US? Especially the older fans? Old commentators and older skaters who couldn't or wouldn't adapt don't help either.

The bigest decline in TV viewers is also in the US where neither the federation nor the commentator have really embraced the NJS. I can't help but think that the resistance to COP in the US is directly related to the commentators telling US viewers "it's too complicated" for the past 6 years.

 

[jcoates]

The bigest decline in TV viewers is also in the US where neither the federation nor the commentator have really embraced the NJS. I can't help but think that the resistance to COP in the US is directly related to the commentators telling US viewers "it's too complicated" for the past 6 years.

Sadly I think this is largely true.

 

[museksk8r]

The bigest decline in TV viewers is also in the US where neither the federation nor the commentator have really embraced the NJS. I can't help but think that the resistance to COP in the US is directly related to the commentators telling US viewers "it's too complicated" for the past 6 years.

Though I don't always agree with the way COP judges score PCS (the way the majority of them stay within the same corridor of marks for all the components that make up the PCS score), I do agree with you on this matter. Button, Fleming, and Hamilton all have been vocal in their disapproval of and inability to understand the COP system. If it's too difficult for the so called "experts" commentating to grasp, then the message sent to network executives is that the general public will never understand it, so why bother telecasting all the confusing nonsense.

 

[Violet Bliss]

As I just posted on another thread, expert commentators such as Browning in Canadian broadcasts often make calls on the elements live and during slo mo highlights, educating viewers and preparing them for the scores which often reflect and confirm their observations.

Commentators complaining about the results without actual analysis other than personal opinions and preferences does not help. Fans do that, trusted experts should not.

 

[Bluebonnet]

The problem is that US is lack of such person. So sometimes they have to borrow from Canada.