Scott Moir says its a piss off | Page 6 | Golden Skate

Scott Moir says its a piss off

Of course, politicking doesn't merely come from federations, but coaching situations as well -- Belbin/Agosto were weakened not merely by being with Linichuk, but by being Linichuk's second team (after DomShabs); Pechalat/Bourzat went to Zhulin only when it became clear that Delobel/Schoenfelder were going to stick with Zazoui to the Olympics; Fernandez left Morosov because Amodio was clearly his number one; Cappellini/Lannotte spent less time with Morosov after I/K went to him, etc etc etc.

And while historically it might be true that it takes a miracle for USFSA to acknowledge ice dance, that doesn't mean that it won't ever happen, nor that they wouldn't attempt to push their number one team ahead if they could.

Good points, IP. But I'm not sure if either factor is coming into play at this particular competition. Maybe there are things I don't know about with the Canton coaching situation, but there's nothing concrete so I rather not speculate.

And sure maybe the USFS will push Ice Dance as hard as they did with their singles disciplines, but I don't really see that happening now. All you have to do is look at the amount of coverage this competition got in the American press vs. Canadian press. Skate Canada has done a great job promoting Ice Dance in the country. USFS...not so much.
 
The only thing Scott said that I'm annoyed about is claiming he & Tessa have been the best artistic skaters in the world for 5 years-in other words, since 2007, their first year in seniors. So in 2007, he thinks he was more artistic than Denkova & Staviyski, who were truly awesome in that year? Or more than Delobel & Schoenfelder for that matter?

Jeezum. Crow.

Don't forget their fellow Canadians, Marie-France and Patrice who won the World silver medal that year too. Scott is way off base; I don't like him for saying those things.
 
I agree. I'd rather an athlete be honest about their feelings rather than trying to hold to some insincere politically correct line-even if I may not agree with their views.

I don't know. I guess in sports I prefer the strong silent type. I was never much impressed by footballers bragging about how they were going to beat up their opponents. It is better just to beat them up without comment. :)
 
Good points, IP. But I'm not sure if either factor is coming into play at this particular competition. Maybe there are things I don't know about with the Canton coaching situation, but there's nothing concrete so I rather not speculate.

And sure maybe the USFS will push Ice Dance as hard as they did with their singles disciplines, but I don't really see that happening now. All you have to do is look at the amount of coverage this competition got in the American press vs. Canadian press. Skate Canada has done a great job promoting Ice Dance in the country. USFS...not so much.

Neither am I, actually, but lets play devil's advocate. doris said that Virtue/Moir threw away the FD by including a long lift (the last, combination lift) they do, because the GOE maximization is lower (2.5 as opposed to 1.5 each for two short lifts, giving three points). Who's fault is that? Doesn't Marina create the lifts and choreography? Is that really Virtue/Moir's fault, as doris' asserts, or should Zoueva share some of the blame there? If so, than what do you say when you have two teams, both with incredible capabilities to score strongly on lifts (both have gotten straight +3s on lifts) and limit one team's ability to do so (Honestly, I think the software is screwing up here, but I'd love for a recapitulation of the rules anyway)

One thing that interests me, though, is the assertion of GOE inflation I've read. We saw it at CoR with D/W in the short dance and the massive PCS that FD was earning is certainly nothing to sneer at. We saw it with V/M in a couple of their competitions (including this one, imo). For example, people mention the awkwardness of the curve lift. And it was awkward - entry and transition particularly (I didn't have much issue with the exit). But if you look at the GOES, they got five 2s, three 1s, and one 0. You could justify -1, in my mind, but they got the benefit of the doubt anyway. Judges are capricious with GOES - I don't think V/M will score much higher on that lift (regardless of improvements or changes) because they're already scoring higher than they deserve (imo). But I think D/W will easily get the level four on the steps - it's D/W for crissakes, and that'll be enough to defeat any GOE inflation V/M receive (and D/W receive probably). I wonder if Scott's feeling that - it feels very much like the Protopopov's later in their career, imo.
 
It's one thing to skate error-free and disagree with how you are marked, but when you plant your butt on the ice and then whine when you finish behind a team that didn't have major mistakes and say your scores are too low is when I have a problem. It's like Evan Lysacek (and Frank Carroll) complaining that he should have received higher PCS at 2010 Nationals when he skated with mistakes in both the SP and LP and insinuating that he gave the title away to Jeremy Abbott (who was error free in the SP and the LP). This kind of poor sportsmanship does not sit well with me at all. :scowl:

Did you even read the interview? Scott didn't say they should have won the competition. He said their PCS for the FD was too low based on their artistry and their performance.

I love it when non-fans pick up on something like this and use it as an excuse to bash skaters they don't like, without actually reading the material on which they're basing their comments.
 
^ It's just not cool.

What would we have thought if Michelle Kwan had said, "I am the most artistic skater of the last five years. How can Irina Slutskaya get higher presentation marks than me? I'm really pissed!"

Brian Orser was cool. He knew for a solid fact that he was better than both Scott Hamilton and Brian Boitano. But...it is what it is.
 
^ It's just not cool.

What would we have thought if Michelle Kwan had said, "I am the most artistic skater of the last five years. How can Irina Slutskaya get higher presentation marks than me? I'm really pissed!"

Brian Orser was cool. He knew for a solid fact that he was better than both Scott Hamilton and Brian Boitano. But...it is what it is.

I agree with you, Michelle, and Orser.
 
As a rule, I prefer people to be direct rather than make sneaky behind the back comments, so I give Scott Moir credit for taking the direct route. Is there footage of the press conference online? I would be very interested in seeing the context and the tone of his comments, and maybe catching the other skaters' reactions. I'll also add that while I'm not fond of post-competition complaints about scoring, if you're going to complain anyway, it is better to say "I was underscored" (as Trankov did this weekend, too) than "they were overscored" (we've seen that happen as well).

Scott has never shied away from expressing his opinions, so I can't say I'm hugely surprised that he became the first person to break away from the whole "Team Canton, friends forever" official line that we've been sold for so long. I never really bought the idea that two teams with the personalities and drive that D/W and V/M appear to have could coexist - not just peacefully, but as friends - when in the same training situation as top teams. There's an Ingo Steuer interview that's been translated over on FSU, and one of the points that came up was whether or not he might have trained V/T as well as S/S. He noted that it would likely have been a non-starter for the Russian fed, but also said he didn't think it was possible to train two teams at the same (high) level. I think in the short term coaches can get away with it, but over time, especially if the teams flip positions, well, then things get challenging. IMO, S & Z did not handle this particular challenge very well when it came up back in 2008, and we'll see what they've learned from that experience.

Having said all that, Scott's outspoken, but he's not stupid and he's never struck me as someone who makes really off the cuff remarks. I bet something beyond just the scores motivated this, and suspect it may have more to do with what's going on behind the scenes at the moment than with the actual judging. One possibility is that this is a message to Skate Canada; V/M have always said and done all the right things, he and Tessa agreed to stay in competitive skating even though they didn't really need to, and now they find themselves in a situation they can't be too happy about, and are no longer their federation's top priority (it would seem). Another issue is what's happening at Arctic Edge that we don't know about. IP brought up the issue of choreo and whether the programs are geared to get the points V/M need, and I think that is a valid question. I would also question whether Igor and Marina are putting in the same effort when it comes to drumming up political support for their top two teams. I am going to go out on a limb and guess no. If this is indeed the case, what options do Scott and Tessa have? The very approach that got them to the top is the one that's being rewarded in skating, and a B/A-like move could result in a B/A-like drop in the standings.

Therefore, to me, the interesting question isn't whether Scott Moir should have kept his mouth shut/been more diplomatic; it's whether or not we are in for a shakeup in ice dance, and what sort of political maneuvering is going on behind the scenes. I'm very curious to see how the rest of the season will play out.
 
Interesting interview, to say the least.
http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/sp...win-silver-at-grand-prix-final-135407983.html



Looks to me V/M are finally taking off their gloves and reveal their true feelings. I'm so tired of those 'we-are-the-best-friends' official line. Time for some popcorn.
Good! They should be . I think everyone forgets that you can be friends off the ice, and be the fiercest rivals on the ice. Let's be mature about things. Besides, Scott has been to be more candid than most skaters. I'm sure a lot more worse things have been said back in training than during interviews.

This is good for them, for Davis and White, and for the sport. Motivation never hurt anyone.
 
Buttercup said:
Having said all that, Scott's outspoken, but he's not stupid and he's never struck me as someone who makes really off the cuff remarks. I bet something beyond just the scores motivated this, and suspect it may have more to do with what's going on behind the scenes at the moment than with the actual judging. One possibility is that this is a message to Skate Canada; V/M have always said and done all the right things, he and Tessa agreed to stay in competitive skating even though they didn't really need to, and now they find themselves in a situation they can't be too happy about, and are no longer their federation's top priority (it would seem).

Great post! I love intrigue.

So maybe Scott Moir, instead of being up-front and straightforward, is actually sending a backhand threat to Skate Canada to stop investing all their political capital in Patrick Chan and start throwing more to him and Tessa?

Maybe by this time next year the Arctic Edge team will have tossed both V&W and D&W to the wolves so as not to stand in the way of Weaver and Poje in 2014. :yes:

Very interesting indeed! :)
 
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Yes! I love Weaver and Poje. I wish THEY would get some political capital thrown their way.
 
So maybe Scott Moir, instead of being up-front and straightforward, is actually sending a backhand threat to Skate Canada to stop investing all their political capital in Patrick Chan and start throwing more to him and Tessa?
Well, nothing so organized and planned, but more along the lines of, hey, remember us? Your OGM winners? Some more support would be nice. And that goes for both SC and S&Z.

There's no incentive for anyone to really back W/P at this time - the no. 2 Canadians and no. 2 team at DSC? What would be the point? They're like the Shibs, working hard and waiting in the wings in the hope that a good opportunity will come their way.
 
Well, nothing so organized and planned, but more along the lines of, hey, remember us? Your OGM winners? Some more support would be nice. And that goes for both SC and S&Z.

There's no incentive for anyone to really back W/P at this time - the no. 2 Canadians and no. 2 team at DSC? What would be the point? They're like the Shibs, working hard and waiting in the wings in the hope that a good opportunity will come their way.

But the thing is, it's not like S/Z said "Here's Funny Face. We want you to skate to it, WHETHER YOU LIKE IT OR NOT!" I believe that V/M do believe in this program and believe that like the Tango of last year for D/W, they are still working out the kinks but are looking to use this program to express other types of artistry like "coy and fun" rather than the "romantic and soft" they're so good at (if you call 9 10s in PCS kinks, but you know what I mean). I think it's an excellent program and I think V/M will get a lot out of it when it is in tip-top shape, but to expect judges to acknowledge this now is probably asking a bit much.

I think if V/M were healthy and competed earlier last year you would actually see a very similar scenario but in the reverse. I think you would have seen V/M winning GPF last year with D/W struggling with a program that judges liked but didn't necessarily love. It just happened to be that by the time V/M was fully in the game (Worlds) D/W peaked with that FD. (If you remember V/M was in first after the SD by a hair).

Also, I think if Scott was subtly trying to say "Pay attention to us, S/Z!" I think some would argue that D/W was the S/Z No. 2 team for several years and the results from 2008-2010 reflected that.
 
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Bottling up your frustrations is never the way to go.

so, get a shrink. the media is not the place to hash it out because then that's ALL they will focus on... ala Weir vs Lysacek... and while it's different from the "I just love them, and I want to do my best" routines, it still gets freaking ANNOYING.

^ It's just not cool.

What would we have thought if Michelle Kwan had said, "I am the most artistic skater of the last five years. How can Irina Slutskaya get higher presentation marks than me? I'm really pissed!"

Brian Orser was cool. He knew for a solid fact that he was better than both Scott Hamilton and Brian Boitano. But...it is what it is.

Orser may not have always spoken (IIRC, he had his comments later on, though, especially about the Battle of the Brians) but his body language spoke volumes
 
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Great post! I love intrigue.

So maybe Scott Moir, instead of being up-front and straightforward, is actually sending a backhand threat to Skate Canada to stop investing all their political capital in Patrick Chan and start throwing more to him and Tessa?

Maybe by this time next year the Arctic Edge team will have thrown both V&W and D&W to the wolves so as not to stand in the way of Weaver and Poje in 2014. :yes:

Very interesting indeed! :)

Yes, it's always more fun to convolute and construe in order to politicize an unfiltered impromptu expression of feelings, while ignoring completely the plainly spoken intention and plan of working to improve to up their chances of winning.

It was not wise of Scott to be so un PC and to speak openly of his feelings but I am amazed at how big an opportunity it has offerd people to jump all over him with gleeful condemnation of his character and skating career. I know, I shouldn't be.
 
Yes, it's always more fun to convolute and construe in order to politicize an unfiltered impromptu expression of feelings, while ignoring completely the plainly spoken intention and plan of working to improve to up their chances of winning.

It was not wise of Scott to be so un PC and to speak openly of his feelings but I am amazed at how big an opportunity it has offerd people to jump all over him with gleeful condemnation of his character and skating career. I know, I shouldn't be.

I think Mathman is trying to lighten the mood here. At least that's my perception.

That said, I also think people are reading too much into this as well on both sides. It's definitely not right that people are condemning him as a person/ and skater, but it's also uncalled for to use Scott's comments as an opportunity to justify feelings that D/W somehow didn't earn this GPF title but rather were given scores and/or benefited from corrupt judging with out providing some basis for those speculations. I don't think Scott did not have either intention in mind when expressing those thoughts.
 
Orser may not have always spoken...but his body language spoke volumes

I know, I know! Is there body language for, "I can't believe I'm standing here on the second step of the podium with this joker ahead of me!" :laugh:
 
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Did you even read the interview? Scott didn't say they should have won the competition. He said their PCS for the FD was too low based on their artistry and their performance.

True! What he said is even worse!:laugh::points:

I love it when non-fans pick up on something like this and use it as an excuse to bash skaters they don't like, without actually reading the material on which they're basing their comments.

This is epic, unbelievable, I would say!!!!:rofl::rofl: Are you for real???:eek:
 
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