Lysacek announces return to competitive skating

[janetfan]

Janetfan I m sorry but that makes little sense in elite sports. If you can jump higher than anyone else that wont make you a Comanecci on its own if you dont train to become one. Having natural gifts will maybe make you more unique but you need to work your talents as much as a less gifted athlete. I dont believe lambiel worked less hard on his spins, but his talent made the spins more special than the rest.

On the subject, Hanyu who is a prodigy himself, I believe he doesnt afford to work less than any Lysacek. Can anyone confirm that he trains less hard or is not a fighter?

ummm, yea. Just ask Scott Hamilton

Actually what you said made no sense to me either :think:

ETA: Look into the career of NBA Hall of Famer Larry Bird. He was slow and could not jump.

What made Bird so great was his will to win, to work the hardest and do whatever it took to become a champion.

Have we heard from her coach that Mirai is not willing to train as serioulsy as others he coached?

It seems incredible to think all athletes train to the same degree.

 

[Tonichelle]

I m fine with Lysacek coming back and looking forward to his new image, what I only mind is listening again his team saying how hard he works out of all skaters, and that only because unless there is a board that every top skater writes how many hours he/she trains to compare, I dont think any elite skater works less hard than anyone else.

I can't speak for the skaters - it's not just Evan's team that gives him props - but I think because Evan doesn't have that raw talent like Johnny Weir (started way late and skyrocketted on mainly talent) or Plush that people like to commend Evan for his work in the sport. For every one thing that the others can do seemingly naturally he has to work for hours on end... I don't know that it's putting down the others so much as being a slight to Evan to say he's the hardest worker.

Look at all the worrk he puts into it and THAT'S ALL he can do?!

 

[seniorita]

^^ Because I can believe he is the hardest worker, why not, but I always mind this kind of statements cause realistically you cant know if he is the hardest worker and I dont believe the skaters on the same level work less. It gets tiring to read it all the time, thats all.To begin I dont think Evan is that untalented but hard worker as people might say, he maybe has a height disadvantage for the jumps but he obviously had talent to become a skater, work alone wouldnt take him that far. As I dont think the rest skaters woke up one day and started doing 3axels.

And Mirai is exactly the example that super talent alone means nothing.She is not top level the last couple of seasons, she didnt even make the world team, although she looks more naturally gifted than the ones who did. So whats the point of being talented?

 

[Bluebonnet]

I agree with Toni. To say Lysacek works the hardest means he is not that talented. Frank Carroll admitted Evan is not the most gifted skater.

 

[Tonichelle]

What he lacks in raw talent he makes up for by being tall, dark, and handsome, though! :tongue:

 

[janetfan]

^^
And Mirai is exactly the example that super talent alone means nothing.She is not top level the last couple of seasons, she didnt even make the world team, although she looks more naturally gifted than the ones who did. So whats the point of being talented?

Yes, that may be true but it is a different subject. Competitve nerves could be part of that as well.

Nobody said talent alone is enough and it seems clear hard work alone isn't enough either.

But to the original point that all elite athletes train the same, well I don't buy it.
There are actually more reasons to prove that false than there is space at GS.

If we were to look into the training habits of Christopher Bowman and Paul Wylie, two elite skaters we would find they had totally different concepts about training.

What about Nicole Bobek and Michelle Kwan?

What did Tat say about Sasha, something like she would rather go shopping than train hard?

Sorry but all athletes do not have the same work ethic or dedication to training.
In fact human nature alone simply makes this an impossibilty.

 

[dorispulaski]

Does anyone else get tired of these zombie skaters reincarnating, like they had played too many old computer video games?

I don't know why this should bother me; these talented skaters are entitled to compete, and if they win at their qualifiers, they should be the skaters to go to Worlds & later Olympics to represent their respective countries, but I feel disappointed and a little cheated of seeing a few more times the programs of the younger skaters who might have qualified if the old pros had not returned.

This is not rational of me, it's just an emotional thing.

 

[Tonichelle]

Does anyone else get tired of these zombie skaters reincarnating, like they had played too many old computer video games?

I don't know why this should bother me; these talented skaters are entitled to compete, and if they win at their qualifiers, they should be the skaters to go to Worlds & later Olympics to represent their respective countries, but I feel disappointed and a little cheated of seeing a few more times the programs of the younger skaters who might have qualified if the old pros had not returned.

This is not rational of me, it's just an emotional thing.

I know what you're saying... it's kinda nice to ring in the new... but really, what is there for them to do - at least the north american ones?

 

[centerpt1]

Does anyone else get tired of these zombie skaters reincarnating

What is the usual length of a skaters elite Sr career? 10 years?

Alissa started Sr in, what, 2001? Johnny in 2001 or so, Evan around the same time? They are over 10 years...

Jeremy since 06 or 07....

Mirai in 07 or 08... Rachael in 08 or so

I'm not tired of Johnny or Evan, and I hope Alissa makes it back.

Many times the older skaters have more mature, pleasing performances. (but then there's Joubert-how many times has he done Matrix?)

 

[Tonichelle]

Jeremy won Junior Nats in 2005, and I don't recall him making it to nationals in 06...

 

[pangtongfan]

I agree, he shouldn't have too much trouble getting on the podium in the US... but it might be harder to make the world team (we only have two spots next season, right?)

IF Evan skates Nationals (I am still not convinced he even will), Abbott and Evan will be the 2 men to make it unless they bomb. Weir, Dornbush, Miner, are no threats to either of them if they skate even decently.

 

[Tonichelle]

I wouldn't be so sure... I don't think Evan's a lock at this point... last year probably, but not this yearr.

 

[pangtongfan]

Yeah if Evan skates badly he isnt a lock. I dont think the USFSA is so high on him at this point they would protect him. However if he skates well there is nobody in the U.S right now who can beat him except a very in form Abbott, and there are 2 spots to Worlds, so it is his to lose. Johnny hasnt been a threat to him since 2008, with both making comebacks after long layoffs it isnt going to miracelously change now. I wont even bother getting into the others. I still have hopes Dornbush will emerge at some point, but he wont be scored over a good Evan or Jeremy right now.

Dont get me wrong. I am not buffing up Evan to a major degree. I think on the World stage his chances are very poor of winning any color medal at the World or Olympic level. However with the weak U.S men right now he is still in fine stead there, unless he is in really bad shape or performs poorly.

 

[Olympia]

This is how I see it also. There's been no one in the U.S. who has impressed me as solidly as Evan has, assuming he can regain his form, but with Dai, Patrick, and Yuzuru at Worlds, not to mention Plushy, I doubt Evan can end up on the podium. As for Johnny, he's always an unknown quantity. He has lovely aspects to his skating, but his tougher jumps are iffy, and the quad, as I recall, isn't among them. I'm sure he'll claim he's doing it in practice now, but practice has to make perfect or it's a no-go.

In the U.S., Abbott has been amazing when he's on form, and he has a quad, so he might manage a defeat of Evan, but Abbott is so inconsistent, and he tends to peak at Nationals and trough at Worlds. Though I'd love to see him do well on the world scene, I have given up pinning my hopes on him.

 

[pangtongfan]

Yes what I pretty much see IF Evan shows up for Nationals at all (which I think is 50% at best) is Evan coming 2nd at Nationals to Abbott but recovering to place 5th-7th range at Worlds. Abbott winning Nationals as usual then bombing at Worlds and coming 9th-12th, with the U.S once again not regaining 3 spots. I actually wonder if the USFSA would like to get rid of Abbott at this point, but as long as he keeps skating well at Nationals it is pretty much impossible to keep him off the World team.

 

[Violet Bliss]

I actually wonder if the USFSA would like to get rid of Abbott at this point, but as long as he keeps skating well at Nationals it is pretty much impossible to keep him off the World team.

I agree with much of your assessment of the current American Men but see no reason why the USFSA would want Abbott to be off its World team. Other than Lysacek, the US does not have a Men skater who performs better than Abbott at Worlds and there is always a possibility that he would get his nerves together to skate like he does at the Nationals to land on the Worlds podium, a possibility eluding all US Men besides Lysacek and Abbott.

 

[pangtongfan]

I agree with much of your assessment of the current American Men but see no reason why the USFSA would want Abbott to be off its World team. Other than Lysacek, the US does not have a Men skater who performs better than Abbott at Worlds and there is always a possibility that he would get his nerves together to skate like he does at the Nationals to land on the Worlds podium, a possibility eluding all US Men besides Lysacek and Abbott.

True and I dont even see that as a possability for Lysacek to be honest, unless it is a major splatfest. Evan's situation I see like he will be his usual solid self (if he even makes it back) but by Worlds this coming year there will be 9 or 10 guys who would beat him if they skate cleanly, and it will just be a matter of how many of them mess up enough to how high he finishes, I am guessing a good number hence the 5-7 projection. Even at his peak in Vancouver against a way weaker field there were 3 to 5 guys who would have beaten him skating cleanly- Lambiel, Abbott if he stayed close enough in the short, Takahashi, maybe Chan, maybe even Joubert.

 

[Mrs. P]

What is the usual length of a skaters elite Sr career? 10 years?

Alissa started Sr in, what, 2001? Johnny in 2001 or so, Evan around the same time? They are over 10 years...

Jeremy since 06 or 07....

Mirai in 07 or 08... Rachael in 08 or so

I'm not tired of Johnny or Evan, and I hope Alissa makes it back.

Many times the older skaters have more mature, pleasing performances. (but then there's Joubert-how many times has he done Matrix?)

Senior debuts:

Alissa: 2002 (11th)
Rachael: 2007 (5th)
Mirai: 2008 (1st)

Jeremy: 2007 (4th, Jeremy missed it in 2006)
Johnny: 2001 (6th)
Evan: 2001 (12th)

Length of careers depends on the skater of course....

 

[Violet Bliss]

True and I dont even see that as a possability for Lysacek to be honest, unless it is a major splatfest. Evan's situation I see like he will be his usual solid self (if he even makes it back) but by Worlds this coming year there will be 9 or 10 guys who would beat him if they skate cleanly, and it will just be a matter of how many of them mess up enough to how high he finishes, I am guessing a good number hence the 5-7 projection. Even at his peak in Vancouver against a way weaker field there were 3 to 5 guys who would have beaten him skating cleanly- Lambiel, Abbott if he stayed close enough in the short, Takahashi, maybe Chan, maybe even Joubert.

Maybe the optimal scenario within the realm of realistic possibilities would be that Lysacek serves to relieve the pressure off Abbott to realize his Worlds potential and together they would bring back a medal and three spots for the US Men.

 

[janetfan]

Maybe the optimal scenario within the realm of realistic possibilities would be that Lysacek serves to relieve the pressure off Abbott to realize his Worlds potential and together they would bring back a medal and three spots for the US Men.

I sort of wish that was true.....coz I love Jeremy's skating ........but you are giving US Skating more credit for competitive strategy than they deserve.

It's just not our way to leave a skater at home who earned a silver medal at Natls.

It is our way at times to boost the score of an athlete with even the most minimal Intl track record (call it the "Flatt rules") beyond all credibilty.

I think US Skating hopefully learned from that and if Evan makes the World team it will be based stricktly on how he skates at Natls.

I hope Ross Miner is treated fairly along with Rippon, Johnny, Dornbush or anyone else.

But I would not be surprised if that is not what happens. :disagree: