What are you looking forward to most this season?

[Bluebonnet]

Pardon again if I made you feel beaten. Others seem like to know that -6 GOE doesn't exist. You can enjoy the ISU site or Reference secion in Lutz Corner to educate yourself.

I've never felt being beaten. I'm perfectly content. So far you haven't brought out any evidence for what I'm asking. I respect facts and logic. I don't think I'm qualified to give YOU an English lesson. So you are continuously beating around the bush. Do you know the answer to the example you've created? Let's hear it!

 

[let`s talk]

I've never felt been beaten. I'm perfectly content. So far you haven't brought out any evidence for what I'm asking. I respect facts and logic. I don't think I'm qualified to give YOU an English lesson. So you are continuously beating around the bush. Do you know the answer to the example you've created? Let's hear it!

Well, actually you always sound like been beaten in all threads. As for the evidence, you have been told more than once to go to read the ISU Communications and the rules of mandatory -GOE. If you still haven't done it, it's no one else's problem. Yeah, I am not a native English speaker. Thanks for pointing out on people's unsatisfactory language skills on the international forum. And yes, I know the answer to the example I have created- both skaters will get -3 GOE according to tthe current rule, which are not in the spirit of Fair Play imo.

 

[Bluebonnet]

Yeah, I am not a native English speaker.

I am not a native English speaker either. That's why I said I don't think I'm qualified to give you an English lesson. My English sucks! That's why I have to go back to my posts so many times to correct my spelling and grammar mistakes. After that, I'm sure that I still have many grammar and spelling mistakes which I'm not aware of. If you think my trying to be polite sounded like being beaten, then I have nothing to say about it.

As for your answer to your example, I don't think that is possible if there are two or three separate criteria for the specific but different deductions. I can understand only -3 GOEs applies to a jump that is two footed and then fall. But steps preceding to the jump is a different thing. It won't affect the revolutions in the air which has a value. And it won't affect the qualities of the jump which also has GOE values.

 

[let`s talk]

I don't think that is possible if there are two or three separate criteria for the specific but different deductions. I can understand only -3 GOEs applies to a jump that is two footed and then fall. But steps preceding to the jump is a different thing.

So, you didn't bother to read ISU Communication with the rule of mandatory -3 GOE for the jump without preceeding steps in SP. You chose to say it's not possibe.

 

[Bluebonnet]

So, you didn't bother to read ISU Communication with the rule of mandatory -3 GOE for the jump without preceeding steps in SP. You chose to say it's not possibe.

Of course I've read it. Here is the copy of this part from ISU Communication 1724:

SINGLE SKATING

JUMP ELEMENTS

Errors for which final GOE must be in the minuses:

SP: One or more rev. less than required GOE -3
SP: Combo consisting of one jump only GOE -3
Downgraded (sign << ) -2 to -3
SP: No required steps/movements preceding Jump -3
Fall -3
Landing on two feet in a jump -3
Stepping out of landing in a jump -2 to -3
Touch down with both hands in a jump -2
2 three turns in between (jump combo) -2
SEVERE WRONG EDGE TAKE-OFF F/Lz (sign “e”) -2 to -3

Errors for which final GOE is not restricted:

Poor speed, height, distance, air position -1 to -2
Lacking rotation (no sign) -1
Under-rotated (sign < ) -1 to -2
SP: Break between required steps/movements & jump/only one step/movement preceding jump -1 to -2
Poor take-off -1 to -2
Loss of flow/rhythm between jumps (combo/seq.) -1 to -2
Weak landing (bad pos./wrong edge/scratching etc) -1 to -2
Long preparation -1 to -2
Touch down with one hand or free foot -1
UNCLEAR EDGE TAKE-OFF F/Lz (sign “e”) -1 to -2

It also says:

In case of multiple errors the corresponding reduction are added.

By the way, I also question whether this -3 GOEs on "landing on two feet in a jump" is a typo or not? In the same document, further down to Pairs Skating, you could see that there is only -2 GOE deduction for "Starting or landing on two feet in a jump".

 

[let`s talk]

It also says:

In case of multiple errors the corresponding reduction are added.

So, you are saying that after your profreading of ISU Communication the second skater in my scenario will get -9 GOE for one jump (-3 GOE for no preceeding steps, -3 GOE for two feet and -3 GOE for the fall after that). Gotcha.

 

[deedee1]

I don't scold you LT, because I root for the skater you root for.
I don't scold you BB, either, because your avatar is the skater who stole my heart at SLC in 2002, until the above skater did again at SA in 2005.

Besides, your English is MUCH better than mine, so why how can I do that, anyway?
So, girls, let's go back to the topic, or someone else may scold you.

What am I looking forward to this season <part3>!
Ladies competition at Russian Nationals, of course. Wow, the season hasn't started yet, but just imagining the tension among these girls gives already me goosebumps.

 

[Olympia]

Me too, Deedee! That is going to be some spectacular event. And I haven't even studied the tapes enough to have an idea of which ladies will end up with the medals.

I know that many of us have bemoaned the drought in winning ladies' skaters from the U.S. and Canada, but with the feast of spectacular ladies from Russia and Japan, there are enough amazing talents to go around. It's a pity that other countries can't adopt the fourth, fifth, and sixth place winners (and they ARE winners) from those two countries.

 

[Bluebonnet]

So, you are saying that after your profreading of ISU Communication the second skater in my scenario will get -9 GOE for one jump (-3 GOE for no preceeding steps, -3 GOE for two feet and -3 GOE for the fall after that). Gotcha.

That is not what I've said if you care to go back to refresh your memory on my posts #78 and #86.

As far as I'm concerned, if you don't bring out other new evidences, there is nothing to say continuously between you and me on this subject. I'm going to start a new thread for it if you don't mind, in the hope of drawing some expertized knowledge and opinions from others.

So, girls, let's go back to the topic, or someone else may scold you.

Sorry, end of it from me.

 

[let`s talk]

I'm going to start a new thread for it if you don't mind

NO! I don't mind at all! I hope someone will be more patient to explain that -6 GOE doesn't exist.

Ladies competition at Russian Nationals, of course. Wow, the season hasn't started yet, but just imagining the tension among these girls gives already me goosebumps.

Hmm, I think the Russian Ladies field is slightly overrated, with the girls' lack of stability and too much nervous attitude. Also, Liza is injured and we don't know in what shape she wil be. Speaking about Nationals, I think Japanese Men's event is gonna be a blood bath, especially for the 3rd spot in Squad A and for all spots in Squad B. The skaters like Mura and Machida are really underappreciated on the international level, mainly because the competitions at Nationals is huge. Gonna be fun in Sapporo.

 

[Skater Boy]

Yep the Russian ladies are in a bit of trouble growth, lack of artistic development, losing their jumps and Liza and Julia are injured. The Japanese and Americans are ready to pounce. you have Gracie, a resurging Zhang, Agnes, and of course the fave Rachel and alyssa not to mention Flatt. russia may even lose a spot for the Olympics if one of them can't podium or two of them don't place close to top 5. Leonova may be key this year.

 

[FSGMT]

Yep the Russian ladies are in a bit of trouble growth, lack of artistic development, losing their jumps and Liza and Julia are injured. The Japanese and Americans are ready to pounce. you have Gracie, a resurging Zhang, Agnes, and of course the fave Rachel and alyssa not to mention Flatt. russia may even lose a spot for the Olympics if one of them can't podium or two of them don't place close to top 5. Leonova may be key this year.

And her programs at these Trials looked ... I think that the Russians have the highest technical level (in Ladies) in the world, but American and Japan nationals have to most "complete" field: technically strong, artistically good, so many good skaters in both categories...

 

[let`s talk]

I think that the Russians have the highest technical level (in Ladies) in the world, but American and Japan nationals have to most "complete" field: technically strong, artistically good, so many good skaters in both categories...

Lol. I can't even compare artistry of Russian girls with the American ones. I meant when I was speaking about the weakness in R-girls, that Russain Ladies field is weaker compared to other fields on nationals level, like Japanese Men, where competition is huge. In general the tendency in Ladies filed for the last few years were just meh. In Slutskaya time you couldn't even dream to podium if you didn't have lutz or flip jumps. Now you can land 3S or 3loop in combos with some 2T, plus a couple of 3T and you are with the medal. That's a step back. We had a similar one in Men's field in the era of quadless champions like Buttle and Lysacek. Now boys are challenging cool stuff. I do hope that Ladies filed will be reabilitated and the only ones who can do that is actually Russian wonder babies.

 

[FSGMT]

Lol. I can't even compare artistry of Russian girls with the American ones. I meant when I was speaking about the weakness in R-girls, that Russain Ladies field is weaker compared to other fields on nationals level, like Japanese Men, where competition is huge. In general the tendency in Ladies filed for the last few years were just meh. In Slutskaya time you couldn't even dream to podium if you didn't have lutz or flip jumps. Now you can land 3S or 3loop in combos with some 2T, plus a couple of 3T and you are with the medal. That's a step back. We had a similar one in Men's field in the era of quadless champions like Buttle and Lysacek. Now boys are challenging cool stuff. I do hope that Ladies filed will be reabilitated and the only ones who can do that is actually Russian wonder babies.

I think that, in the last years, a lot of skaters won without having a secure 3Lz, but it's just a jump, and you can't pretend from everyone to have it as her favourite jump! A step forward has been made in the 3-3: ten years ago, almost no-one landed 3-3s with complete rotations, now it's almost impossible to go on the podium (at the Senior Level) without a good 3-3 in the SP (Ando in 2011 is obviously an exception!)... I hope that, in the next years, we'll see good 3Lzs back with good 3-3s!

 

[plushyfan]

Yep the Russian ladies are in a bit of trouble growth, lack of artistic development, losing their jumps and Liza and Julia are injured. The Japanese and Americans are ready to pounce. you have Gracie, a resurging Zhang, Agnes, and of course the fave Rachel and alyssa not to mention Flatt. russia may even lose a spot for the Olympics if one of them can't podium or two of them don't place close to top 5. Leonova may be key this year.

I'm always a little annoyed when the North Americans say that the Russians did not skate in an artistic way. Who, if they not? Russia is the home of ballet, the rythmic gymnastic, he had a lot of very famous gymnasts etc. You said the Russian ladies lack of artistic development ... Which ladies? Sotnikova? Korobeinikova? Or the youngest prodigy girl Radionova? OMG! Sorry but this is ridiculous ...You mentioned Flatt...Do you think she is more artistry??!!

 

[Olympia]

Yeah, that's a bit of an odd statement. I think one reason that it seems to some people that Russian ladies aren't as artistic right now is that they're all so young. No one's an artist at that age (Yipes! Thirteen and fourteen!) except maybe Sasha Cohen (and long before her, the ballet-trained prodigy Katharine Healy). Even Michelle didn't have that "wow" quality until she was an old lady of fifteen. Tara certainly wasn't a heartstopping artiste even when she won the Olympics.

 

[Li'Kitsu]

Just wanted to agree with plushyfan too.

Yes, the 'russian wonderbabies' got a HUGE amount of hype. But that doesn't mean that people should now be coming up with the opposite - declaring them nothing bot overrated. There's a great amount of talent in Russia now, if that will manifest itself or not is another question - but the russian ladies field is potentiolly the strongest by now.
And what kind of 'trouble' is that supposed to be they're facing? People just love to hype so much, they tend to forget that growth happens and rather often results in one or two supbar seasons. Nothing new, nothing that would mean those girls will disappear from the world stage forever. And injurys happen - with her injury, Julia still did 3Lz and 3F at one of the test skates. She's not really unraveling because of that injury, huh?

Anyway, about the artistry... which american lady right now would be really artistic? Ashley is a great performer - I wouldn't call her an artist though. And great performers are Liza, Alena or Julia too. Additionally, Adelina and Polina K. are artistic skaters to me - way more than any american lady by now.
And Radionova looks nice artistically for someone her age :yes:

But maybe I'm just too annoyed with some american fans kind of overdoing it with the talking about their own skaters. Like men's skating is supposed to be a bloodbath, or that third spot for the ladies... hwell:
The american fields aren't complete at all - and the ladies field is definitly not as good as the russian one. And the men's field in the same sentance as the japanese one sounds a little unwillingly funny too.

 

[emdee]

Its a given that Japan has the deepest mens and ladies field.

Saying anything otherwise is crazy.

Canada has a deep icedance field and then we have Patrick.

I think Canadian pairs field is fairly decent and there are some excellent younger pairs as well.

 

[Bluebonnet]

I don't see any American ladies artistic except Alissa Czisny right now. American men are in a deep field. But they are deep in about between 5th and 20th in the world.

 

[plushyfan]

I don't see any American ladies artistic except Alissa Czisny right now. American men are in a deep field. But they are deep in about between 5th and 20th in the world.

Yes, Alyssa is so beautiful in all aspect. You forgot about Mirai, Johnny and Jeremy. And I think the young Jason Brown is really remarkable as an artistry skater.